[Map] Pumpstation 1.4

[D.A.M.I.E.N.]

Pumpstation 1.4 (originally by 4rson)
License: CC-BY-SA 3.0

Due to busyness of 4rson to finish this map, I did that work to make it done, because this map deserve attention, in my opinion.

Description:

Rather medium sized map ideal for capture-the-flag, defend-the-flag or deathmatch. All modes should work. Don't expect any great effects. This map is about good gameplay in environment of interesting and realistic looking old used station.

Changes and improvements:


*fixed shadows and visibility (added "skylight", increased ambient)
*fixed wrong placed textures
*allowed moving on buildings after clip changes (and added new geometry)
*layout corrections (flags, weapons)
*error messages in .cfg file corrected
*less steep stairs in a building and redesigned area of scoring bomber-ball
*fixed performance issue with reflection planes and triangles
*created generator near the red base
*before completely empty room is now supplemented by pipes and barrels - drum and is lighted
*improved details
*added stairs at the red base
*added additional ladders that makes gameplay more comfortable
*changed placement of baskets for bomber-ball mode
*corrected details
*corrected texture errors
*corrected geometry on rocks and terrain under water
*added proper clips
*added stairs at the blue base
*added nice waypoints
*corrected flags and its settings
*changed placement of weapons and its number
*changed players spawn points
*added bomber-ball mode, defend-the-flag mode, grunts and turrets for onslaught mutator
*improved/added lighting in dark places
*added clouds
*added sounds

If you will find any error, please post it here. At this moment I can't find any though. Thanks.

[fawstoar]

Yes! Finally! Pumpstation was my favorite of the slew of fan maps released last fall. It would be amazing to get it polished for the next release!

[Dratz-_C]

Hi,
I get 30fps constantly on my nettop on this map, which is wonderful. I found one geometric error. In the picture, I am standing beside it.
Cheers

[DroiD]

This map has potential

[4rson]

Thanks Damien, it looks much better with the fixes. After a bit of play-testing, there may be one final update, depending on how busy I am at work

[BruceW]

I tested the map on my own. Now I like it even more than before.

Anyway, there is one error I noticed. The Omega bots dont have waypoints yet. They were just jumping around in their base.

And the Alpha bots suddenly stay in one place without moving at all.

The waypoints should be edited again I think.

[Dratz-_C]

Hi 4rson and D.A.M.I.E.N,
One might think there should be a playable purpose to this area that, at present, one can fall into and, provided one is careful to avoid falling into the water, slowly jump out of. It could be a rocket or a plasma gun and some grenades and/or something to do with specific playmodes. Also, if this is done, perhaps one could survive falling into this area of benign-looking water and use a ladder by the door to get up, which would enable bot pathing. This nice-looking, intricate area is shown in the first attached picture with the ladder recommendation indicated.

Pumpstation_1-2_puzzling_area1.png

For the second area, one might want to clip the dead water area flush with the existing clipping of the higher buildings bordering it (if this area is not clipped away, the liquid in the lower pool should look toxic to tip the player off). The suggested clip is shown in attached picture 2. One may also want to add a ladder to get out of the water. This idea is diagrammed in attached picture 3. The two changes may help bot pathing, so a weapon placement, perhaps a sword and a grendade on the bottom by the ladder might be good.

Pumpstation_1-2_puzzling_area2.png

Pumpstation_1-2_puzzling_area2_ladder.png

Hereunder is addendum 1, a strong suggestion from an avid bomberball player. The blue bomberball basket is easier to get to than the red basket. Also, both baskets are too close to the bomberball reset placement. To remedy these for optimum fun one should move both basket locations, pushing the clip to behind the new red basket placement and adding a ladder. These changes are delineated in the following pictures.

Pumpstation_1-2_bomberball_blue_basket.png

Pumpstation_1-2_bomberball_red_basket-_ladder_and_clip.png

Presently, in edit mode the blue basket takes 5 seconds to get to flying without shift from the bomberball reset location, the red, 7 seconds. For both of the suggested basket placements, it takes one 8 seconds to move in this way from reset to basket. Scoring would then become fun and more than a quick, one-shot, no pass affair.
Next is addendum 2 regarding basket bomberball playtesting. On Pumpstation 1.2 it took 7 minutes for the opposing bot team to path to the bomberball, with me standing on the platform doing nothing. Accordingly, we should to try improving the waypoints and helper materials to fix this issue. I edited the map per addendum 1, naming it Pumpstation1-2-1 (unfortunately rendering the bot waypoints ineffective but it is too late for me to fix tonight). I then tested the change and enjoyed it more than before with this mode and modifier. See the following post were I have attached an archive containing my novice edit.
Cheers

[Dratz-_C]

In this thread I will discuss my editing for Pumpstation. For now I am limiting it to realizing my bomberball basket suggestion, addenda 2-3 in my previous post. I still have to add the ladder to the red basket. Also, I must alter the waypoints. However, my edit is available as an attachment below.

pumpstation1-2-1.zip

Feel free to test it in basket bomberball and tell me if the placement of the baskets is progressing in the right direction.
Cheers

[D.A.M.I.E.N.]

Hi 4rson and D.A.M.I.E.N,
One might think there should be a playable purpose to this area that, at present, one can fall into and, provided one is careful to avoid falling into the water, slowly jump out of. It could be a rocket or a plasma gun and some grenades and/or something to do with specific playmodes. Also, if this is done, perhaps one could survive falling into this area of benign-looking water and use a ladder by the door to get up, which would enable bot pathing. This nice-looking, intricate area is shown in the first attached picture with the ladder recommendation indicated.

Hi, the ladder is not bad idea, we will consider about it. But I can jump out kinda easy out though with using "Q". Red Eclipse allows to use such a movements, so ladders are not so needed generally. About adding a rocket to this area I have to disagree, because there is already one rocket and it is medium sized map. And also.. this part of map shouldn't work as default place for playing. There is already one way above to use, below, the second is for situation, when you fell. And I don't think it is a good idea to make there path for bots, in area of map, that is not used to much. I made the waypoints very carefully. If you would know how waypoints works, you wouldn't add it there. Bots choose easier way before harder one. And they change their moves according to situations. That is what I understood about bots. So adding there a path for bots would be 1. basically useless, 2. complicated.

For the second area, one might want to clip the dead water area flush with the existing clipping of the higher buildings bordering it (if this area is not clipped away, the liquid in the lower pool should look toxic to tip the player off). The suggested clip is shown in attached picture

I tried to use there the clip and I have to say that is not a good idea. It doesn't allows to jump to the air without impact at the clip. That really shouldn't work like that in maps. It should be more natural. Only in the parts where it is needed and this is not that case. But we will consider about the "toxic water", although, the water stream is just cold a little dirty water, not any toxic I suppose. This area already looks dangerous, so players shouldn't choose to go there.. There is also nothing to do, there are no weapons, no flags.. So personally I think that making the water to look toxic is not necessary.

One may also want to add a ladder to get out of the water. This idea is diagrammed in attached picture 3. The two changes may help bot pathing, so a weapon placement, perhaps a sword and a grendade on the bottom by the ladder might be good.

Dratz.. heh, try use the waterfall to get to up. It is much easier to swim through it than by some ladder there. But it could look more interesting with the ladder. I will try to make some.

The blue bomberball basket is easier to get to than the red basket. Also, both baskets are too close to the bomberball reset placement. To remedy these for optimum fun one should move both basket locations, pushing the clip to behind the new red basket placement and adding a ladder.

Yes, I wanted make it more easier to score, but this might work better. I will change it.

On Pumpstation 1.2 it took 7 minutes for the opposing bot team to path to the bomberball, with me standing on the platform doing nothing. Accordingly, we should to try improving the waypoints and helper materials to fix this issue. I edited the map per addendum 1, naming it Pumpstation1-2-1 (unfortunately rendering the bot waypoints ineffective but it is too late for me to fix tonight). I then tested the change and enjoyed it more than before with this mode and modifier. See the following post were I have attached an archive containing my novice edit.

I'm convinced that there is nothing wrong with the waypoints . Maybe try to take a look at it in editor, then you will understand. If it takes too much of time for team with bots, that it is because it just works like that I guess. Try play on map "linear" and you will see that it is similar. And I suppose, that bomber-ball is mode for on-line gaming preferably. So I would better avoid to call this as an issue.

For now I am limiting it to realizing my bomberball basket suggestion, addenda 2-3 in my previous post. I still have to add the ladder to the red basket. Also, I must alter the waypoints. However, my edit is available as an attachment below.

You don't have to edit the map.. better let to do it by author(s), huh? I understood your ideas clearly and I will make some changes. I appreciate your ideas. Thanks. But about waypoints I disagree, I don't see any error in it. Bots are moving as they should and they know all used paths very well. It's been tested. And the basket is better like that.. yes, it is more balanced. I will make the changes and improvements and also the small corrections and hopefully it will be a final release.

[4rson]

Hi Dratz, thanks for taking the time to look through pumpstation and thinking of improvements.

I'm not sure about the bomber ball placements since I haven't tried it with the new layout yet. I had previously timed the paths to be exactly even, but with the new layout, it might well need some tuning. I will try to get a few games in to try it out.

With regards to the 2 water death areas, they were always meant to be places you should avoid. The player can escape there, but they must pay the penalty in the time taken to get out again. This is particularly the case with the detailed area under the bridge. If it was too easy to get out, people might start hiding there too much. On the other hand, it allows skilled players a small extra usable area. However, it might be fun to add a grenade down there.

It used to be the case that the bots would quite often get stuck at the bottom of the waterfall, so if this still happens a lot it might be worth adding the suggested ladder there.


Bruce: Is it possible that you didn't put the waypoints file in the correct place? I'm not seeing any problems with the bots so far.

[BruceW]

@ 4rson:

Maybe you care about this:

tested the map on my own. Now I like it even more than before.

Anyway, there is one error I noticed. The Omega bots dont have waypoints yet. They were just jumping around in their base.

And the Alpha bots suddenly stay in one place without moving at all.

The waypoints should be edited again I think.

[Dratz-_C]

D.A.M.I.E.N, 4rson and BruceW,
Out of an obsessive compulsion and a possible browser crash, I just accidentally lost a circa 400 word post justifying my suggestions and playtesting method on the axes of setting, function, consistency and expediency, and proving that there are Alpha and Omega waypoints, which I will not type again. It may interest you to know that I have worked on the construction of a waste water treatment plant and know that the ladders fit your pumpstation setting. I will type again that there should by a parkourless means of getting to the top center platform the with rocket and ball in one jump or less preferably off of a wall to both sides of it for novices, rookies and bots on both teams. I did not diagram this, but I trust you are intelligent enough to appropriate my solution based on text alone.
Edit: wowie, thank you for the suggestion. I may try it in the future. Because sometimes I do not know how long my post will be from the outset or to what extent I will use the faculties of the post frame, I have always copied my text before posting it, but this time it was not enough because the browser closed before I even clicked the submit button. This is compounded by the fact that my left mouse button is on the blink, regularly clicking excessively. I'll have to buy a new one, next month.
Cheers

[wowie]

slightly off topic: whenever you have a post longer than one paragraph type it in your favorite word processor then copy/paste it over.

[D.A.M.I.E.N.]

Dratz, I don't know what you mean by "Alpha" and "Omega" waypoints. In my opinion there are only one waypoints, a net of connected points that makes directions for bots. It has to work also for no-team deathmatch as well, so why to divide it to alpha and omega.. Of course.. from both bases leads ways to opponents base and basically on the entire map and it's up to bots which way they prefer.

Anyway.. I tried to perform some of suggestions. Baskets for bomber-ball are changed. Added proper ladders. Fixed geometry errors that were found before. I have added stairs to red base, so the place looks even better and works well for bomber-ball. Also I have added vapour effect at the waterfalls and even changed/added some things. But that is secondary. Of course with adding of ladders I had to edit a little the waypoints to make working possible paths for bots.

Thanks for feedback. I replaced download file. Map is now also licensed under CC-BY-SA.

[Dratz-_C]

Hi folks,
Here are some more places one should change.
Edit this clip.

Pumpstation_1-2b_clip_1.png

Deepen bottom of deathwater by the falls until one cannot see it.

Pumpstation_1-2b_deathpool_1.png

Create a ladder leading to the top of this wall.

Pumpstation_1-2b_ladder_0.png

Construct ladders in these locations.

Pumpstation_1-2b_ladders_0.png

Make a ramp and stairsets according to this picture.

Pumpstation_1-2b_stairsets_and_ramp.png

I still have more playtesting to do on the map but now I have to get to bed because it is half past midnight.
Post Script,
D.A.M.I.E.N., you should economize your geometry so the frame rate stays up for when the low performance crowd runs 12 players and a bunch of onslought grunts. Instead of using several hundred triangles, the little stairset in front of the red basket should be a ramp with a maximum of circa 24 triangles. The texturing will make it look fine.
Cheers

[4rson]

Hi Dratz, we are having another look at the layout in the red base. With regards to all the other ladders and stairs, this is meant to be a map with a lot of opportunities for parkour. Putting ladders everywhere would somewhat undermine that. Yes, it would be nice if the bots could get everywhere easily, but making it fun for the real players is our primary objective.

[D.A.M.I.E.N.]

Dratz, on the first picture.. the clip. Clips can't be bevel. There is 90° only.

With regards to all the other ladders and stairs, this is meant to be a map with a lot of opportunities for parkour. Putting ladders everywhere would somewhat undermine that. Yes, it would be nice if the bots could get everywhere easily, but making it fun for the real players is our primary objective.

I completely agree.

[D.A.M.I.E.N.]

Weapons can't be respawned again when they are in use except grenades. Then there would be a countless numbers of weapons. So I really don't understand what do you want me to fix. Also.. this is not part of editing. It is about variables if you have any issues with weapons I guess.

[Dratz-_C]

I realize the parkour objective. I understand that preparing for bots is an afterthought. It is just something that is necessary to make a competent, popular map and, not inhibiting parkour, can produce appropriate visual detail. I will likely wait for your redesign of the one base for further comment on it, but may talk later about the base that you intend to leave more or less the same.
Cheers

[D.A.M.I.E.N.]

Since at some places was a lack of details, the map were supplemented by whole detailed generator, barrels and pipes.
Beside of better visual appearance, more geometry in empty rooms optimized also framerate while playing (less fluctuating).
Download file has been changed. (version 1.3) Enjoy.

*added generator near the red base
*improved empty room (light and pipes and stuff)
*added more details and a few more of a small corrections
*edited waypoints when generator is there now

[4rson]

Thanks Damien, the new details look great. I think this version will be the final update unless someone finds a major bug.

[riidom]

Hi played it today on a frog server, so I assume I played the newest version.

Two things to mention:

a)
this double-spiked building acts weird, you cant go into the gap inbetween, though there is enough place, and standing on top is nearly impossible, that might be to the slope, but it feels like there has happened an extensive use of invisible walls, and that is confusing.

b)
there is one of these places where you can go down into the death-water, and the walls around it are framed by some kind of T-carriers. when you stand on the 3rd or 4th (counted from top) it is a death trap. You cant get up, only way to solve is kamikaze. Maybe there is a way, just a complicated one, I discovered it in last minute of match and hadnt much time to try - at least it is pretty difficult, and if you look from top, it is kind of inviting to stand there. Maybe do some breaks in the ring of T-carriers, so there is a narrow stripe of smooth wall, where you can safely wall-run up?

P.S.: runs fine on my old P4, performance-wise nothing to complain Bots act often pathless, but I guess that is a known one.
P.P.S: something is weird with the screenshot feature, the 2nd one was way way brighter the moment I captured it. Hope you find the spot

[Dratz-_C]

Hi folks,
In vanilla bomberball there were no waypoints connecting to the red goal. This meant that blue team bots would never score. There was no second path to the red goal for flow and to fairly match the 2 blue goal paths. I have fixed these two things. Download Pumpstation 1.3.1 and play regular bomberball. Notice that the blue teams now scores as regularly as the red team. Also try out the new back entrance to the red goal. Before widely distributing it, you may want to wait until 4rson and/or D.A.M.I.E.N approve this change. (I do not want any credit in the final license file. I temporarliy added my name in parentheses, in case something happened that is my fault. I also fixed a few big texture errors. This was not exaustive; some minor ones remain.)

pumpstation_1-3-1.zip

pumpstation_1-3-1_1.png

pumpstation_1-3-1_2.png

Cheers

[D.A.M.I.E.N.]

Hi,
riidom, on frogteam servers is old version of pumpstation. And the things that you describe are already fixed. So just download the version from forum, thanks. (you can recognize latest version by the newly added generator)

Dratz and others, to my surprise I looked and found out, that I have somehow put and edited wrong waypoint file. Old version. On version 1.2b waypoints are ok, but unto 1.3 I have put old version of waypoints. You can see the newer version on picture, that there is a path for bots to score bomber-ball. And many other of added points. Sorry for the mistake, I will add the right waypoints.

About this new way to the red basket, in my opinion it affected too much design of this building. It should look more realistic and there is already one way over the ladder, now it is like a hole in the building, well.. inside it looks ok, but I'm not sure about if this is what we planned on. :/ Though I admit the fact, that to score bomber-ball is now maybe more interesting. I know you're fan of bomber-ball, I like this mode too, but changing appearance of good looking building just because of another way to score bomber-ball.. I don't know. Pumpstation will probably not be excellent map for it. It wasn't even made for this mode earlier. But I think it is now enough good to play it there, without making another paths.

To the texture errors. I would appreciate if you could post screenshots here showing the big texture errors. Because we didn't see there any such error.
I am rigorous in making the textures look proper, so that is why I wonder. Thanks.

[Dratz-_C]

I have to get to bed now so I'll make this quick. I have added some details to the new route for asthetics and to make the building consistent with itself. Download it and take a look.

pumpstation_1-3-2.zip

Cheers