HUD

HUD

Postby LuckyStrike-Rx » 18 Oct 2011, 21:14

Hello,
I just played RE today and noticed something. There is way to mach info in any color, size, flashing, tons of text everywhere on the screen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Less_is_more

Maybe it's just me, but It may give a bad first impression of the game.

I know that most HUD info can be customized.
But default setting are important cause it's what make you keep playing after your 1rst play, or just uninstall.

I think that by organizing things a bit differently it's possible to have something that is more enjoyable to use.


here some example screen
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Improvement possible ?

CTF
Image
Image
Image
DM
Image


Hit
Image

Damaged
Image

Maybe also Critical and Headshot does not need center screen message. (icons with the kill message eventually)

If it's impossible to improve HUD, just setting max death message to 3 (by default) and reducing help/kill textsize would already make it less clumsy/unreadable
Image
User avatar
LuckyStrike-Rx
 
Posts: 183
Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 14:07

Re: HUD

Postby ZeroKnight » 18 Oct 2011, 23:56

Is that all just photomanipulation, or did you actually program that HUD? If you did, I want it. Nonetheless, I do agree with many of your points. Personally, I think your vision of the HUD is not only sexy, but a little more minimalistic, and makes better use of the whole screen without cluttering it.
One question, what does the second number in yellow represent?
[ Github ][ WazuClan -- irc.wazuclan.com #wazuclan ][ Zero's Archive of RE Extensions, Scripts, WeapMods & More! ]
User avatar
ZeroKnight
 
Posts: 524
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 01:24
Location: Ohio, United States

Re: HUD

Postby LuckyStrike-Rx » 19 Oct 2011, 01:07

No, It's just manipulation as I have no Coding skill.
The number is the key to press to take the gun (actually there is 2 number, the key to bind and the ammo)
In most game the gun binding key is not displayed, so I guess it doesn't absolutely have to be displayed. (it's a bit like if you have press space to jump everytime on the screen)
Image
User avatar
LuckyStrike-Rx
 
Posts: 183
Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 14:07

Re: HUD

Postby ZeroKnight » 19 Oct 2011, 01:48

Awww, that's disappointing D: I'd LOVE to have that HUD.
Haha I'm sorry for not clarifying, but I meant the yellow number below the health.
[ Github ][ WazuClan -- irc.wazuclan.com #wazuclan ][ Zero's Archive of RE Extensions, Scripts, WeapMods & More! ]
User avatar
ZeroKnight
 
Posts: 524
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 01:24
Location: Ohio, United States

Re: HUD

Postby qreeves » 19 Oct 2011, 11:41

ZeroKnight {l Wrote}:Haha I'm sorry for not clarifying, but I meant the yellow number below the health.

That'd be; /inventoryvelocity - which shows your current speed.
Quinton "quin" Reeves | Lead Developer, Red Eclipse | http://redeclipse.net/ | http://www.facebook.com/redeclipse.net
User avatar
qreeves
 
Posts: 1294
Joined: 17 Mar 2011, 03:46
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: HUD

Postby LuckyStrike-Rx » 19 Oct 2011, 12:43

No, it's the impulse meter, merged with Health to get more compact info (in a smaller area)
Image
User avatar
LuckyStrike-Rx
 
Posts: 183
Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 14:07

Re: HUD

Postby ZeroKnight » 19 Oct 2011, 17:08

Oh dear, so much miscommunication ^^" I was referring to LS's mock-up, I know of inventoryimpulse already, have had it enabled for a long time :)

Quin, do you think if more people saw this mock-up and liked it, you could work with LS and produce a working HUD that looks like this? Personally, I'd be happy as hell if I could use this.
[ Github ][ WazuClan -- irc.wazuclan.com #wazuclan ][ Zero's Archive of RE Extensions, Scripts, WeapMods & More! ]
User avatar
ZeroKnight
 
Posts: 524
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 01:24
Location: Ohio, United States

Re: HUD

Postby qreeves » 20 Oct 2011, 02:58

I've had to redesign the HUD like 4 times already, and I disagree with a few of the suggestions made here (because many of the design decisions were made based on problems we were having with people playing the game [eg. team displays, centreprint notices, clip colours, etc]). For one, Lucky's console shouldn't look like that (a variable somewhere has been modified to show "fullconsole" at all times), which is why it is so opaque and lengthy. Also, the idea of placing HUD elements along the sides of the screen was because you have far more horizontal screen space than vertical - this was a design decision very early on in the project. I also don't like the reduced obituary logs because it removes half the humour aspect of RE. Coloured elements are also present because it provides easier/quicker "at-a-glance" reference, so you can spend more time looking at the centre of the screen where your crosshair is.1

This isn't to say I'm totally against the ideas discussed here, and I agree he makes it "look" better, but there are certain aspects that I am quite defensive over here. Also realise to get something of this "quality" it would take me months of redesign and implementation work, something I am not prepared to do at this point for something that already works (and I provide so many variables to you for changing the behaviour of the HUD, its just the DEFAULTS are set up for noobs).
Quinton "quin" Reeves | Lead Developer, Red Eclipse | http://redeclipse.net/ | http://www.facebook.com/redeclipse.net
User avatar
qreeves
 
Posts: 1294
Joined: 17 Mar 2011, 03:46
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: HUD

Postby orbitaldecay » 20 Oct 2011, 04:07

Fortunately, we have been blessed with a plethora of variables to control many of these aspects of the HUD. Someone should really write a tutorial on them (someone probably already has and I just missed it). But the annotations were priceless.
[ Wazu Clan ][ irc.wazuclan.com #wazuclan ][ http://www.orbitaldecay.com ]
User avatar
orbitaldecay
 
Posts: 180
Joined: 12 May 2011, 00:32
Location: Baltimore, MD, US

Re: HUD

Postby LuckyStrike-Rx » 20 Oct 2011, 05:06

Sure reworking the HUD is not a priority
(I know it's a long story, and the actual one is way better than the old ones http://goo.gl/5WZh6)
It was just improvement suggestion just in case
And I took a look at the vars and there is indeed alot of customization possible. I moved a notices a bit and It's already better now.

Just the concatenation became so long with the assist system and reward. I run default Hud setting on the screenshot, and I don't really find how to get 3 message max. I tried this, but it don't seems to change anything /showevents N
And is there Vars to change to conc. itself ? (and remove the flashing text) I think it's the most disturbing to me.

I understand the point of color and flashing text, but there is so many everywhere that I don't know where to look (and flashing is a bit disturbing when you try to concentrate on aiming). I guess that when there is to much information, it tends to occult each other.


default setting (with smaller notice)
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
setinfo "LuckyStrike-Rx" 0x333333

aniso 16
blobs 0
blurshadowmap 2
depthfxsize 12
filltjoints 0
gamma 101
glare 0
grassdist 512
inventorygame 0
inventoryweapids 0
maxdecaltris 4096
moviefps 30
movieh 360
moview 640
musicvol 0
noticeoffset 0.6
noticescale 0.8
sensitivity 8.0
serversort "[0 9 11]"
shadowmapsize 10
showmat 1
skipgrenade 1
skippistol 4
thirdpersondist 10.0
weapselectslot 0
zoomlevel 3

bind "1" [weapon 1]
bind "C" [weapon 1]
bind "F" [universaldelta 1]
bind "G" [weapon 8]
bind "LCTRL" [action 6; forward; forward; forward]



I just regret to not be able to make the heath+Impulse meter on fakeshot with only Vars :)
Image
User avatar
LuckyStrike-Rx
 
Posts: 183
Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 14:07

Re: HUD

Postby srbs » 20 Oct 2011, 05:35

orbitaldecay {l Wrote}:someone probably already has and I just missed it

Yeah, right.. :P

LuckyStrike-Rx {l Wrote}:I don't really find how to get 3 message max.

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
consize 3

should do the trick
srbs
 
Posts: 94
Joined: 17 Mar 2011, 07:00

Re: HUD

Postby ZeroKnight » 20 Oct 2011, 17:54

srbs {l Wrote}:
orbitaldecay {l Wrote}:someone probably already has and I just missed it

Yeah, right.. :P


It appears that I have been forgotton: Collection of Useful "Look 'N' Feel" Variables

qreeves {l Wrote}:I've had to redesign the HUD like 4 times already, and I disagree with a few of the suggestions made here (because many of the design decisions were made based on problems we were having with people playing the game [eg. team displays, centreprint notices, clip colours, etc]).

I was merely asking hypothetically, I didn't mean to imply that I was requesting. I have a bad habit of conveying the wrong message sometimes :/ Also, I did say I liked "many" aspects, but not all. Everything you mentioned bugs me as well, conincidentally enough.

qreeves {l Wrote}:For one, Lucky's console shouldn't look like that (a variable somewhere has been modified to show "fullconsole" at all times), which is why it is so opaque and lengthy.

Didn't see that the first time, but you're right.

qreeves {l Wrote}:Also, the idea of placing HUD elements along the sides of the screen was because you have far more horizontal screen space than vertical - this was a design decision very early on in the project.

True that. I don't think too many people use 4:3 monitors anymore(correct me if I'm wrong) so that's definitely a good idea. However, I don't think the weapon in the bottom left is all that obtrusive. (personal opinion)

qreeves {l Wrote}:I also don't like the reduced obituary logs because it removes half the humour aspect of RE.

Oh I know! I love the way RE's obits are shown. I've changed a lot of mine to suit my more evil tastes :P
ex: "given kung-fu lessons by" -> "got their skull kicked in by", "eviscerated by", "ripped in half by", "executed by", "assassinated by", "reduced to ash by" (my favorite: the obliteration kick kill obit:) "fell victim to Waz-Foo delivered by" :P Much more too. I had fun with them :)

qreeves {l Wrote}:Coloured elements are also present because it provides easier/quicker "at-a-glance" reference, so you can spend more time looking at the centre of the screen where your crosshair is.

Not to mention the radar and ammo count is right there. This was a design strategy I noticed from the get-go and fell in love with. I've never seen it anywhere else. I agree on the color aspect as well. Colorizing and highlighting by a "category" or meaning can make things very handy as far as quick references go when you get the hang of them. It's why my Team-Compass phrases in Extended Compass are all color coded. (Thanks again to fluxord for improving my original idea)

qreeves {l Wrote}:it would take me months of redesign and implementation work, something I am not prepared to do at this point for something that already works (and I provide so many variables to you for changing the behaviour of the HUD, its just the DEFAULTS are set up for noobs).

I realize this and agree completely. Sorry again, I was just asking a hypothetical question, I didn't mean to come off like I didn't like the current HUD, (I do like it, as aforementioned) it just looks a little bland. LS has this sleek/sexy futuristic style going to the elements, which match RE's look pretty damn well IMO. Now that I ponder it further, a complete re-design wouldn't even be necessary unless someone came up with a groundbreaking draft. Just a "wardrobe change" if you will. Obviously, changing a perfectly working HUD is definitely not a goal in this stage of development. Perhaps this whole idea could be shelved until a future point, where more pressing things are finished first. Or if someone with the skills and time went and made a HUD themselves. That always helps :P
[ Github ][ WazuClan -- irc.wazuclan.com #wazuclan ][ Zero's Archive of RE Extensions, Scripts, WeapMods & More! ]
User avatar
ZeroKnight
 
Posts: 524
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 01:24
Location: Ohio, United States

Re: HUD

Postby inpersona64 » 20 Oct 2011, 19:08

ZeroKnight {l Wrote}:True that. I don't think too many people use 4:3 monitors anymore(correct me if I'm wrong) so that's definitely a good idea.

I have noticed that RE looks and plays better when I play in 960x540(16:9 QHD) vs 640x480(4:3 Std. 480p) which is my current setup when I want to record.
User avatar
inpersona64
 
Posts: 474
Joined: 01 Apr 2011, 18:19
Location: Eastern USA

Re: HUD

Postby qreeves » 20 Oct 2011, 23:58

ZeroKnight {l Wrote}:I was merely asking hypothetically, I didn't mean to imply that I was requesting. I have a bad habit of conveying the wrong message sometimes :/ Also, I did say I liked "many" aspects, but not all. Everything you mentioned bugs me as well, conincidentally enough.

Do I come across as agressive, angry, or something? I'm just responding to things, I'm not upset or anything. Perhaps I am a little too blunt? I've noticed a few people seem to take me the wrong way at times.

ZeroKnight {l Wrote}:I realize this and agree completely. Sorry again, I was just asking a hypothetical question, I didn't mean to come off like I didn't like the current HUD, (I do like it, as aforementioned) it just looks a little bland. LS has this sleek/sexy futuristic style going to the elements, which match RE's look pretty damn well IMO. Now that I ponder it further, a complete re-design wouldn't even be necessary unless someone came up with a groundbreaking draft. Just a "wardrobe change" if you will. Obviously, changing a perfectly working HUD is definitely not a goal in this stage of development. Perhaps this whole idea could be shelved until a future point, where more pressing things are finished first. Or if someone with the skills and time went and made a HUD themselves. That always helps :P

Oh, I don't deny that it looks great and suits RE quite well, I was just pointing out that the way things are organised has evolved over the course of like 5 years. I've just spent more time working on the HUD than almost any other part of the game already; and these days my time is kind of limited, I'd rather work on gameplay aspects at this point. If someone can duplicate it as a patch (something which is provided as an alternative option to the current setup, not replacing it completely [because there will most likely be people who like it the current way]) using the proper coding style, I'd be more than happy to look it over and consider it for inclusion.
Quinton "quin" Reeves | Lead Developer, Red Eclipse | http://redeclipse.net/ | http://www.facebook.com/redeclipse.net
User avatar
qreeves
 
Posts: 1294
Joined: 17 Mar 2011, 03:46
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: HUD

Postby LuckyStrike-Rx » 21 Oct 2011, 15:47

It'd default setting for console.
Just that when you do 10 action in a relatively short time, you have /consize x2 because the 5 previous message take a few moment to definitively fade off.

I changed /consize to 3 with faster fading, looks better now.

sbrs {l Wrote}:consize 3

should do the trick

Yep, thanks
Image
User avatar
LuckyStrike-Rx
 
Posts: 183
Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 14:07

Re: HUD

Postby ZeroKnight » 21 Oct 2011, 17:21

qreeves {l Wrote}:Do I come across as agressive, angry, or something? I'm just responding to things, I'm not upset or anything. Perhaps I am a little too blunt? I've noticed a few people seem to take me the wrong way at times.


No, you didn't, and I didn't think you were upset. After reading your reply and re-reading mine, I realized I may have come off like I didn't appreciate the current HUD, which is false. I was just trying to clarify :P

I'd really love to take a stab at producing this HUD, but lately I've been struggling with my implementation ability with C++. What I mean is, I know pretty much all of the basics, and there's always constant google searching for figuring out other things, but I still have a very hard time trying to actually produce something. For example, the Zombie Mode that's been seeing some popularity lately was my idea. (Including a branched idea I've yet to share) I even tried making it, but couldn't. The coding was done by orbital. ( good work, bud ^^ ) I had absolutely no idea where to start. I'm aching to contribute more to RE, much of it requiring adding to the game's code, but I can't seem to manage to find a place to start. Perhaps I just haven't learned enough? What is a good place to learn? Not just descriptions of the basics, but how to actually apply them and produce something. What would be the best way? Practice programs? Tutorials/Documentation? Both?
There are quite a few of us in this community who are very good with C++. Could any of you guide me to acquiring the skills to be among you? I want to contribute so much to this project, but with my current ability, I'm so limited :/
[ Github ][ WazuClan -- irc.wazuclan.com #wazuclan ][ Zero's Archive of RE Extensions, Scripts, WeapMods & More! ]
User avatar
ZeroKnight
 
Posts: 524
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 01:24
Location: Ohio, United States

Re: HUD

Postby sireus » 21 Oct 2011, 21:07

From my experience, the only way you can learn it is doing it. If the result doesn't please you, you can always throw it away and start over. Experiment with the code, and over time, you'll find out what happens where.
That step you described, from knowing the basics to actually getting things done, can IMO only be made through practice, and that takes time.
I hope I didn't discourage you :S
sireus
 
Posts: 109
Joined: 24 May 2011, 20:10

Re: HUD

Postby qreeves » 22 Oct 2011, 07:24

sireus {l Wrote}:From my experience, the only way you can learn it is doing it. If the result doesn't please you, you can always throw it away and start over. Experiment with the code, and over time, you'll find out what happens where.
That step you described, from knowing the basics to actually getting things done, can IMO only be made through practice, and that takes time.
I hope I didn't discourage you :S

I have to +1 this one, this is how I did it, and now we have Red Eclipse :)
Quinton "quin" Reeves | Lead Developer, Red Eclipse | http://redeclipse.net/ | http://www.facebook.com/redeclipse.net
User avatar
qreeves
 
Posts: 1294
Joined: 17 Mar 2011, 03:46
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: HUD

Postby ZeroKnight » 22 Oct 2011, 18:50

Thanks for the tips. I know it takes time, and I know I have to to just do things and experiment, which is what I've been trying, haha. I just never manage to get anything though, so maybe there's a few ways to go about things? As in, certain ways you can do things to help get a result? I'm sorry my questions are so vague, I don't know how else to describe them. I'm just at a loss really. And no, I'm not discouraged :P Quite the opposite in fact, which is why I'm itching to figure this out.

So, I guess what I'm asking is could you offer any tips, methods, practices to go about when actually learning this process, and how to make the experience stick?
[ Github ][ WazuClan -- irc.wazuclan.com #wazuclan ][ Zero's Archive of RE Extensions, Scripts, WeapMods & More! ]
User avatar
ZeroKnight
 
Posts: 524
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 01:24
Location: Ohio, United States

Re: HUD

Postby qreeves » 23 Oct 2011, 03:21

Fork the code off, don't try doing anything advanced (you may not even be able to do anything you actually want to do at this point); I use a lot of trial and error. Copy and paste a bit of code, tweak it, find out what it does, see how changing it makes things react. I started off with the original Cube, but one of my first Sauerbraten modifications was to take the existing materials and create a new thing called volumes, which could change gravity/teleport/etc. Then I made the surface of glass and water texturable. These things are harder to do these days, I started off with "Normalmap Edition" and the code was a LOT simpler then (so maybe even grab an old version Sauer to mess with, things in RE get complicated).
Quinton "quin" Reeves | Lead Developer, Red Eclipse | http://redeclipse.net/ | http://www.facebook.com/redeclipse.net
User avatar
qreeves
 
Posts: 1294
Joined: 17 Mar 2011, 03:46
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: HUD

Postby ZeroKnight » 23 Oct 2011, 19:04

Thank you for the pointers :) I'm glad you mentioned that it might be worth grabbing Sauer, and I can agree with you on RE complexity. Skimming through it to find things has been quite difficult, and on the few things I tried messing with, I couldn't figure out where to start '~'
But thank you, I'll try what your said :) Hopefully it wont be too long before I can do some real contribution to RE other than just things with CubeScript :P
[ Github ][ WazuClan -- irc.wazuclan.com #wazuclan ][ Zero's Archive of RE Extensions, Scripts, WeapMods & More! ]
User avatar
ZeroKnight
 
Posts: 524
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 01:24
Location: Ohio, United States

Re: HUD

Postby q009 » 25 Oct 2011, 19:39

Lucky: If you'll give me those textures for HUD I can do the code stuff and release as a mod :)
q009
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 09 Jul 2010, 17:50

Re: HUD

Postby TheLastProject » 06 Nov 2011, 17:27

Points I agree with:
- Showing where your killer is, instead of where your own body goes
- Too much unclear text on the top: "was shown the light", "was riddled with holes", you need to spend time thinking of what actually happened. A kill icon would be much better.
- Your new GUI.

Points I disagree with:
- No "headshot" over opponents: I don't mind seeing what an opponent just achieved, it makes it nicer for yourself to show off a good job too. Reminds me a bit of GunZ: The Duel (before it turned into crap)
- Help messages: They don't disturb me much, I think their size is fine. I wouldn't mind any change to it though.
- Permanent reminder of gamemode: I end up forgetting what I'm playing, especially because the loading screen only appears shortly.
- No change in display of equipped weapon: I actually like that.

Even though I don't agree with all your point, I'd prefer your GUI over the one we have currently any day. It looks a million times better.
Hats, Afros, wings and raptor feet. This game is showing progress indeed.
TheLastProject
 
Posts: 432
Joined: 06 Nov 2011, 17:04

Re: HUD

Postby tempris » 10 Nov 2011, 02:38

Hello, I am a long term follower of Red Eclipse and Quin's work, and I agree completely! I have been keeping up with the development of Red Eclipse and never seem to loose my impression with this project. I have been working on my own titled "Iron Fist" and have always looked up to this project (god, I sound pathetic). What my point is, is that in my course of development with Iron Fist, I have done most of my work on the HUD myself(not in RE) and Quin is correct, to learn something, you must do it yourself. If anyone has seen my project, you know that its mostly crap, but I try. Anyways I looked at this topic and am considering developing some of the HUD feature concepts that I have seen here. I understand that Quin is busy with the gameplay aspect of the game. This is how I see it:

Gamplay: what causes people to stay with a game and what make it unique. (think MineCraft)
Effects: What causes people to play the game in the first place. (If it looks like crap, noone will play it)
HUD: Allows users to interact with the game on the fullest level. (if it isnt on the HUD, people wont notice it most times)

Currently I have seen Quin develop all of these heavily. Unfortuantly, what I have noticed is that you could do months of development on gameplay and noone will notice :(. (for example: Quin rewriting the SpecTV code, I wonder if most people noticed at all) What I think is that Quin has much larger plans than just the HUD (No offense LuckyStrike-Rx), and he doesnt have the time to spend another 100 hours on the HUD(which would probably be what it would take to recreate the HUD in LuckyStrike-Rx's images). Im probably rambling here.

I intend to re-release a RE mod called Iron Fist in a few months, and I will take a whack at this HUD. I will post screenshots of the HUD soon. IN fact, here are a few if the development so far (perhaps some ideas for RE?):

screenshot2_50 2.png

screenshot50 2.png


More following in next post due to computer difficulties.
User avatar
tempris
 
Posts: 20
Joined: 10 Nov 2011, 00:06

Re: HUD

Postby FlyinHigh » 10 Nov 2011, 04:10

What's the goal you wish to achieve with your mod?
FlyinHigh
 
Posts: 25
Joined: 08 Nov 2011, 00:58

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests