my first track [wip]

[gruntunbur]

around Sunday I read the post on the blog about supertux
on Monday I searched the wiki about all the basis stuff I wanted to know
yesterday I learned how to make a basic track work in supertux ( using blending 2.5 and the beta scripts )
today I learned how to vertex paint faces, just plain colors no evil gradients! which I wanted to use for my first try at making a track
and now I've got the first version of my first ever supertux track! yay

notes:
cheating posible but laps working, no textures! just basic colors

todo's:
make tight turn actually tight
colision box stuff on support beams and other objects
add more cosmetic stuff
items
optimize polygon count
make it work :P, and eventually give texturing a go.
polish polish polish

for now I just wanted to share this one because seeing the track work in STK made me so happy /cry
it probly sucks but just give it a go! and let me know.

the .blend file is included, STK track in "export" folder

[qubodup]

It's great that the documentation allowed you to get started on your own and create a full track! The layout seems good and I'm curious how it will be with a booster at the ramp.

Here's a test drive video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGheHii_X0g

[Auria]

This track does feel like a work in progress, but it's a very great start, good job If you add textures I think this track has much potential

[Kinsu]

Hi gruntunbur !
Very promising WIP

If you can, don't hesitate to add some funny stunts and dynamic objects on the map, this is a current need for STK ^^ (The existing jump is good for that )

Just a detail to fix in the polishing phase : When one falls in the hole at the beginning, and resets, the kart is set at the cave entrance instead of on the road from where we jumped.

[gruntunbur]

thanks for the quick replies
I thought about adding some screens but a there's a video already ! thanks qubodup.
the part where you respawn at the beginning of the cave is because there's no secondairy track :P, yet!
texturing will be the final-ish phase, first i want to get the silhouet clean and fun
more stunts!.. I agree. gonna read up on that

today: more poly fun, add/read about secondairy tracks and make a booster work

[Tranberry]

Looks great, I love how there are no textures that spoils the aesthetics of the map. I hope you'll make/get really good textures when it is time for that.

And thank you qubodup for the video, I wonder when I'll try to install the game for the first time..

[gruntunbur]

changed the open area: removed ugly mountains added a canyon
changed the lava-pit to a lower lava mini lake. so you can actually see it. needs more tweaking/edeting
updated the starter area with more green, added a fossil in the big wall
got secondairy track working, booster at the end with a placeholder texture. needs more work ( positioning of booster area )

I did need to edit the quad textfile, it seems that the script ( 2.5 beta ) does not save the correct values. ( AI ignore / invisible )

.blend file included, STK track in "export" folder

[Arthur]

I did need to edit the quad textfile, it seems that the script ( 2.5 beta ) does not save the correct values. ( AI ignore / invisible )

Indeed, I reported that bug here: https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/super ... ticket/313

[Kinsu]

got secondairy track working, booster at the end with a placeholder texture. needs more work ( positioning of booster area )

I think this very important to be careful the jump is not too easy. On the previous version, it was maybe a little too hard (yet feasible) without any bonus, but it's fine I think : if you jump, you take risks. On this version, it's waaaay too easy I think, it's not even funny to jump ^^

Maybe one problem is that in easy mode, the maxspeed is much lower than in hard mode, so some stunts just must be easy in hard mode to be usable in easy mode.

Hiker & Auria, would it be long to make 3 versions of bonus-placements for tracks ? this could help to balance this...

[qubodup]

Hiker & Auria, would it be long to make 3 versions of bonus-placements for tracks ? this could help to balance this...

I'd advise against that. Having bonus placement variations might be a good idea but binding each to an AI makes no sense IMHO, as a track/level is not defined by its walls and roads only but also by the pickups. I imagine the tracks would be played in a very different way with different pickup placement.

Per-AI-level pickup-placement would also result in more work for level designers or inconsistency between levels (if some levels have no AI-level-pickup customized placement and others have).

One solution might be to have a speedup thing that will give equal speedup (configurable by the level maker), ignoring the max speed perhaps?

[Kinsu]

You're totally right, qubodup, it would be a mess to have 3 different item placement for each track.

When I said "3 versions of bonus-placements", I was in fact thinking of placing some bonus items (zipper or nitro) with an "easy-mode-only" tag, just before jumps. So this is pretty much the same idea than yours (you explained it better than me ) :

One solution might be to have a speedup thing that will give equal speedup (configurable by the level maker), ignoring the max speed perhaps?

The max-speed I was talking about was only the engine max-speed, without any booster. With nitro or zippers or slipstream, this speed can be exceeded without problem (there's even a parameter to indicate how much it can be exceeded )

So, I think this is a good idea

[Arthur]

Jumps work very well with a zipper texture defined on the jump. Actually, if you just steer straight, you can start on the jump and still gain enough momentum to make it over the gap. But, the different difficulty levels can still be a problem, though in my (unfinished) track I got a secondary road so you can avoid the jump if you're chicken.

So yeah, having a check-box in the panel for overriding the difficulty settings (just use the highest max-speed for this zipper texture) would be a nice solution IMO.

[hiker]

So yeah, having a check-box in the panel for overriding the difficulty settings (just use the highest max-speed for this zipper texture) would be a nice solution IMO.

Yes, this is the solution I want to implement: zipper texture can define an absolute speed the kart should have, independent of difficulty mode. This wouldn't be much of an issue in easy, since the driver can't do much during that time anway (so the guidelines would be to only use this setting for jumps).

Cheers,
Joerg

[Kinsu]

Nice conclusion

For the graphists to understand well, I suggest we find an explicit name for this specific zipper.
- "Jump-zipper" : not very good, one can think that the zipper does make the karts jump,
- "before-jump-zipper" : a bit long... ,
- "help-zipper" : not very explicit...

[Arthur]

"Woohoo-zipper"?

[Kinsu]

Nice one !

[Funto]

I think having zippers with different boost values confuses the player, as he can't know if it's worth trying to go on this zipper or not...And I think most players don't even know there are different boost values.
But that's just my opinion ^^

[Arthur]

I think it is useful. Say you want a shorter jump, but with the zipper momentum benefit I mentioned earlier. Very handy in certain situations, but track designers must be careful not to abuse this.
"With great power comes great responsibility."

[Kinsu]

These "Woohoo-zippers" will not confuse players I think : they should understand it's for the jump. And I'm not even sure they will see the speed difference between these zippers and the other ones ^^

[gruntunbur]

I've seen the problem with the different difficulty settings, but with some tweaking I think its possible to get a equal/suffucient boost every setting
I'm still changing parts of the track, for example: the corner you land on with the boost is now a small bridge and the track on it somewhat smaller. I do want the AI to get it every time though, because if they "sometimes" don't make it they actually fail most of the time. or, if one AI doesn't make it, the next probably won't eather. ( lots of suicide AI jumpers )
the bridge corner should make it more interesting for the player, more room for failure

what are the max speed settings of the different difficulties actually?

[Kinsu]

what are the max speed settings of the different difficulties actually?

In the STK folder/data/stk_config.xml file.

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

    <!-- Speed and acceleration related values: power and max-speed (in m/s)
         have 3 values, one for low, medium, and hard.
         brake-factor: Value used when braking. max-speed-reverse-ratio is
         the percentage of max speed for reverse gear. -->
    <engine power="400 450 500"  max-speed="15 20 23" brake-factor="11.0"
            max-speed-reverse-ratio="0.3"/>


These parameters can be overriden individually for each kart in the STK/data/karts/[a kart]/kart.xml file (see the wiki for more info).

more room for failure

[Funto]

These "Woohoo-zippers" will not confuse players I think : they should understand it's for the jump. And I'm not even sure they will see the speed difference between these zippers and the other ones ^^

What confuses the player in my opinion is mainly to have normal zippers that give different boosts but look the same throughout the same track...
I don't have a problem with speed boosts being different for "woohoo-zippers" and normal zippers, but I don't think the same kind of zipper should give various speed boosts.

But that debate is not the topic of this thread, sorry for disgressing ^^

[Arthur]

Well we have textures for zippers now, so that means track designers can use different texturing for different speeds. E.g. have more arrows and a larger texture area for strong zippers. In probably 95% of tracks, the standard speed is used anyway. For the rest, people should try to not do a too wide variety of speeds, at least not in the same track. Then I doubt there should be much of a problem.

Maybe this could be split from the original thread? At least if the discussion continues in this slightly off-topic direction.

[gruntunbur]

updates (mostly cosmetic):
overhanging rock with support beams
a big dead tree [ghost]
changes to lava/dungeon part: corner bridge
a basic lap idication: 2 poles
some useless rocks

still lot to be done to make the track more exciting, but cosmetic stuff is fun :P

[Kinsu]

Great improvements !

The jump is less easy with the possibility to go too far (an AI kart fall just in front of me ), and the cosmetic stuff is cool !