Alayan {l Wrote}:I think it's nice if new tracks can include some dynamic elements and/or some ground zippers (which are often worthless for challenge but give a feeling of speed to noobs).
Alayan {l Wrote}:- The track felt really narrow. When driving alone, it's not too much of an issue, it mostly makes the track challenging, though noobs won't cope with it as easily as I did. It's much more of an issue when racing close to other karts. At the start, all AI karts would collide in a huge mess. Even with smarter human players, I think big collisions would be unavoidable.
Alayan {l Wrote}:- The start shouldn't be located just before difficult curves (be it in normal direction or reverse), some time should be left at the start for differentiation and to reduce the mess with collisions.
Alayan {l Wrote}:- It's way too easy to fall off-track, as currently nothing prevents it and you better know your rescue key. If this track is F1-inspired, then runoff areas with gravel that slows you down would be welcome in many places. Other spots could do with barriers.
Alayan {l Wrote}:Very tight corner should not incentivize trying to cut them short, and should try to minimize the risk that a kart having an accident will block the path for oncoming karts.
Alayan {l Wrote}:- The AI being dumb in tight corners, on the other hand, is an AI issue. Track-specific hacks to make the AI less bad make future AI improvement more difficult and can't fix everything anyway. Make the track good for humans, make the drivequads match the truly drivable areas, and don't worry if the AI is dumb. If the track reaches the point where it has the graphics and gameplay quality for the main game, then you can be sure the AI will be worked on to handle this better.
Alayan {l Wrote}:- Signs warning about upcoming strong corners would be helpful. Experimented player might just rote learn the whole track, but it needs to not be overly frustrating for newbies.
Alayan {l Wrote}:- I've found there is very little places where the red drift is actually usable. Almost all the difficult corners are very short, so no drift or yellow drift are the only options, and the straights aren't favorable either.
Alayan {l Wrote}:- Very few safe areas for zippers, too.
Alayan {l Wrote}:- A secret path or two, in normal and in reverse, would be nice.
Alayan {l Wrote}:- In 2.0, I'm thinking of making the drift hop less OP for cornering. I think this would improve the gameplay on most current tracks, but it might make some of your corners even nastier... I don't think it's bad to have to brake at some points, but maybe making some of those corners wider would help both in regards to the collision issues and to not have these corners too nasty once the drift hop is nerfed.
[/quote][/quote][/quote]Alayan {l Wrote}:My best lap (1 zipper) is a 52.708s in a heavy, quite far from perfect. Taking all the corners right without slowing down too much or crashing is not easy, need some memorization.
tempAnon093 {l Wrote}:I've uploaded this new track in the add-ons for easy access.
fracture {l Wrote}:I can't even find this track in the add-ons. You sure you uploaded it?
fracture {l Wrote}:I found it. Pathing is mostly good except for a few very sharp u-turns. Either widen the road or make the turns longer.
tempAnon093 {l Wrote}:Thanks for this!Alayan {l Wrote}:I think it's nice if new tracks can include some dynamic elements and/or some ground zippers (which are often worthless for challenge but give a feeling of speed to noobs).
I think a few of the longer stretches could benefit from zippers, now that you mention them.
tempAnon093 {l Wrote}:Alayan {l Wrote}:- I've found there is very little places where the red drift is actually usable. Almost all the difficult corners are very short, so no drift or yellow drift are the only options, and the straights aren't favorable either.
With Tux, I was able to get 8 red drifts (no zipper, the second may be cheating, first one in tunnel was taken late so normally it isn't close to the wall). Granted, that took at least 15 tries.
I didn't design the course with red drifting in mind, so if you think that's a problem then it is. I just don't really have an expectation of red drifting as normal.
tempAnon093 {l Wrote}:Alayan {l Wrote}:- In 2.0, I'm thinking of making the drift hop less OP for cornering. I think this would improve the gameplay on most current tracks, but it might make some of your corners even nastier... I don't think it's bad to have to brake at some points, but maybe making some of those corners wider would help both in regards to the collision issues and to not have these corners too nasty once the drift hop is nerfed.
Thanks for the warning. I'll be making many of the corners wider for sure. The left-right corkscrew with the arch over it was intended so that it couldn't be cut and required two turns, so I might have to make it a bit easier for 2.0.
Alayan {l Wrote}:These stretches go by rather quickly, they wouldn't be so great for this.
Furthermore, this would remove some of the few spots where using the zipper item makes sense.
Alayan {l Wrote}:It's a skill to manage to pull off red drifts in places that aren't friendly to it, but a narrow track with very demanding corners makes it more unfriendly to red drift than any standard track.
Alayan {l Wrote}:- If you take the interior of the curve that follows the "Monaco tunnel" while going fast, the kart is likely to take off and fly away.
FabianF {l Wrote}:The turns are still way too sharp imo
George Calibur {l Wrote}:The last corner is bit tricky, AI are waiting around until, they made through it
The 90 degrees turns are damn and if anyone tries to make it, he need to slow down or else, he falls.
Some others are too Speedy and one of the last...just no
Alayan {l Wrote}:I almost have nostalgia for the first version of the track, the new one felt so much easier. I'm lapping 4-5s faster and am less likely to crash.
Alayan {l Wrote}:A very interesting side effect of this track design is that different kart classes are much closer in time-trial than they are on most tracks, because light karts don't have to brake anywhere as much and reaccelerate faster. I still got a better time with a heavy than with a light kart, but having a "fast in corner, slow in straight" and "slow in corner, fast in straight" approach being competitive with each other is great.
Alayan {l Wrote}:A warning sign would help but wouldn't be enough, the gradient needs tweaking so that direct visibility happens earlier.
QwertyChouskie {l Wrote}:You could always use scripting to change the curve based on direction, just create two objects and switch between them.
tempAnon093 {l Wrote}:Haha I feel a little bit similar, it was more of a challenge before.
Like you hinted at, I am torn between keeping this track challenging and therefore more fun for me, and making it easier for people who gotta go fast (let's be honest, casual racing in kart games usually doesn't require braking). I think I can compromise a little more without losing the soul of the track. At the end of the day, I have no illusions that this will be a challenging add-on track. A few of the turns are not made for everyone, but it should only be one or two, that give incentive to learn them instead of giving up.
The final double U-turn should probably be turned into more of an S-bend. I'm not too attached to it. The left-into-U-turn close to the start is a bit harsh, I like the layout of it but I will make it easier (adding a straight between the two corners)
QwertyChouskie {l Wrote}:You could always use scripting to change the curve based on direction, just create two objects and switch between them.
There are only 3 truly challenging corner section in the latest wider version, for an experimented player.
Alayan {l Wrote}:There are only 3 truly challenging corner section in the latest wider version, for an experimented player. The first U-turn because it follows shortly after a left-hander. The baku section, which can be taken at full speed but requires accuracy to do so. And the final S which requires smartly using the whole width of the road to keep as much speed as possible through the corner. All the others can be taken at full speed with little effort and very high reliability, in forward direction (in reverse, the monaco U-turn is hard because blind, in normal direction it's really easy to drift into. Meanwhile in reverse, the first U-turn becomes much easier because of the slope). I think the first U-turn could be tweaked to be more fun while still challenging, but if you nerf these 3 spots there is nothing left. And I was the first to say the v1 of the track was too technical.
Alayan {l Wrote}:Seems like overengineering. I would suggest first trying to improve the curves the normal way, and only if it fails to consider something like this (but I don't think it would be needed in this case). I don't think that going up a steep slope that then quickly levels off is key to the experience in forward direction. A less steep slope that's longer and level off more gently would fix the issue with the blind corner.
XGhost {l Wrote}:I think the challenge is fine -> but you have a problem with sight and guidance. There are two sharp turns where I don't know how the road is laid out beforehand.
Alayan {l Wrote}:I made a video showcasing gameplay on the latest public WIP version of Grand Coastia : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RoYwy4Qgl0
tlbomb {l Wrote}:This could actually be a nice track, once it's finished. It is already fun to race. I think that this track should be added to the main tracks if it has got nice graphic design.
I really appreciate the work of (track-) designing and modelling.
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