A site strictly for free culture webcartoons

A site strictly for free culture webcartoons

Postby Jastiv » 30 Jul 2019, 01:39

Haha, made you read this post about something that doesn't exist (as far as I know)
Anyway, the reason I am posting this is because I had my webcartoon hosted on comicgensis for many years, and they just broke the updater a few months ago.
I haven't been much into web cartoons lately, mostly, because cool as it is, it doesn't really pay the bills and its just either a bunch of proprietary culture, or a bunch of people who
just do it for a hobby. (nothing wrong with that)
So, I started looking into new hosting for my web-cartoon. Now, I could host it myself, I suppose, but then what if I forget to pay for hosting and it goes away? Then again, anywhere I host it to could go away. It is such a pain to re-upload everything, but I plan to do it on two or three sites, and eventually redirect the url jastiv.com to the best website.

The reason I want a new community is because I made the mistake of making a post on smackjeeves about webcartoons. Now I am banned from there, because I am a spambot (LOL)

Oh, yeah, I haven't updated it since 2017, but eventually I hope to update it again sometime, maybe as a nice break from wograld.
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Re: A site strictly for free culture webcartoons

Postby freemedia2018 » 30 Jul 2019, 02:02

I run a website dedicated to (along with advocacy) building a free software/free culture/free hardware library. I would be very interested in hearing about such webcomics.

I can recommend a crazy one I found recently, it's very NSFW but mostly for the sake of being weird and making celtic/pagan/occult references. Maybe you're already familiar with it.

Contact me if you are ever being censored and looking for an outlet to talk about such things. I figure you're safe here of course.

Jastiv {l Wrote}:I could host it myself, I suppose, but then what if I forget to pay for hosting and it goes away? Then again, anywhere I host it to could go away.


Free culture webcomics should obviously archive to the Internet Archive from time to time. Neocities supports IPFS: https://blog.neocities.org/blog/2015/09 ... d-web.html though as a host the options are very limited-- they don't offer server-side scripting or host most filetypes (just the basics: HTML, JS, CSS, images) on the free plan.
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Re: A site strictly for free culture webcartoons

Postby Jastiv » 30 Jul 2019, 02:14

I think it's just crappy system administration on their web forums, the sys-admin email address just gives me a mailer daemon error. And ironically, I can still upload my web cartoon there.
I know people have complained about the system administration on opengameart.org, but compared to a lot of other sites, it is actually pretty good.

One more thing, the web comic community got hit hard by the demise of project wonderful. It made it harder to find a larger audience and for audiences to find new web cartoons.
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Re: A site strictly for free culture webcartoons

Postby freemedia2018 » 30 Jul 2019, 02:28

Yeah, I remember project wonderful. Someone should really start spidering comics based on links from other webcomics and create a global map/rank like in the early days of Google.

But if you find free culture webcomics (I don't personally count NC as free culture incidentally) I'd very much appreciate links. I don't care if they're yours or someone else's, self-promotion of free cultural works is alright by me.
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Re: A site strictly for free culture webcartoons

Postby fluffrabbit » 30 Jul 2019, 09:22

Does Sonichu count as a free culture comic?
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Re: A site strictly for free culture webcartoons

Postby freemedia2018 » 30 Jul 2019, 15:09

fluffrabbit {l Wrote}:Does Sonichu count as a free culture comic?


Where the content is in the public domain, I would say so.

He reuses a lot of corporate-owned characters, which goes back to the Air Pirates and the use of Mickey, and those reuses may include things that aren't actually in the public domain. That part is complicated-- but he certainly seems to be trying to make a free culture comic one way or another.

Free culture as a definition comes down to licensing mostly. (And similar / identical freedoms as free software.)

Although people have done things that probably fall under the category of free culture for much longer, the four biggest boosts it had was when Lessig (on the board of FSF) founded Creative Commons, when Wikipedia moved from FDL to CC BY-SA, when freedomdefined.org created their website/organisation and when OER started promoting the idea of free culture licensed textbooks. All of those have happened within the past 15 years-- a few years after "open source" and two decades after free software. I didn't mention the Free Culture Foundation (which I strongly recommended they change their name to) because their activities are so narrow, they've already shut themselves out of practically everything.
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Re: A site strictly for free culture webcartoons

Postby fluffrabbit » 30 Jul 2019, 16:23

There's free software, and it is what it is. Then there's free software culture, which is the FSF. Then there's free software meta-culture, which is this discussion. I feel that free culture in general will only become relevant when the word "software" loses its meaning (ubiquitous computing, singularity, etc.)
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Re: A site strictly for free culture webcartoons

Postby freemedia2018 » 30 Jul 2019, 17:58

fluffrabbit {l Wrote}:There's free software, and it is what it is. Then there's free software culture, which is the FSF. Then there's free software meta-culture, which is this discussion.


Funnily enough, that's the (deeply flawed, IMO) software-centric framing that the FSF promotes. Open source actually did a better job in this regard (probably only because it has sought every gimmick it could find.)

I feel that free culture in general will only become relevant when the word "software" loses its meaning (ubiquitous computing, singularity, etc.)


Free software and Free culture both emerged over dramatic changes in the way copyright applies to nearly all works. That's as recent a change as the 1970s. What really pushed it forward (in terms of a need) though was a significant attack on the public domain known as Eldred v. Ashcroft, where someone was getting sued for redistributing books that should be (or are) in the public domain.

The software-centric position of the FSF is based on what I consider special pleading, rather than historical context. They are perfectly aware of what forces led to the beginning of the free software movement, as both the movement and the FSF were founded by the same person. I think they actually misinform people about free culture. It has led to a lot of common misunderstandings.

I think free culture is very relevant because it faces nearly-identical challenges as free software, but it is much harder to get people to support it-- that, and while there are loads of free cultural works, it's difficult (as is the point of this thread) to find or index them.

Before 1976, most works were already in the public domain or headed there soon enough. Since then, we have more or less closed the loop that copyright was originally (in the US Constitution at least) designed to provide:

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

The point of copyright in the USA was to get people to contribute to the public domain. And until 1976 it did exactly that.

Since then, the media monopolies have worked to create "[unconstitutional] perpetual copyright on the installent plan." Taken to SCOTUS, on whether this actually violated Article I Section 8 or not, their decision said more or less:

"If this were unconstitutional we would have ruled it as such."

It's like if you went to H.R. to complain about something happening, and they said "if this were against our policy we would have said so." It's a colossal non-answer on matters of constitutionality.

Since reason and law failed, Lessig founded Creative Commons as a way of working around new, stifling copyright laws roughly the same way RMS founded GNU as a way of working around the new Microsoftian culture of undisclosed sourcecode and NDAs.

Unfortunately, RMS remained unconvinced of the parallel. Personally, that astounds me.
Last edited by freemedia2018 on 30 Jul 2019, 18:06, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A site strictly for free culture webcartoons

Postby fluffrabbit » 30 Jul 2019, 18:05

Open source actually did a better job in this regard (probably only because it has sought every gimmick it could find.)

Like Open Cola? Yeah, no thanks.

while there are loads of free cultural works, it's difficult (as is the point of this thread) to find or index them.

It's kinda shitty to slap a logo on some public domain footage and sell it as if it's original IP. That's not cool, but it's legal, and in fact it's also permitted under the GPL. I see that sometimes on archive.org, an otherwise great source of free cultural works. There is also gutenberg.org, which provides the same resources for books. And don't forget opengameart.org, a site where artists shoot themselves in the foot with the misconception that giving away IP is beneficial.

If you ask me, intellectual property is a great construct, and one which I will continue to support until in some distant future the very concept of copyright disintegrates.
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Re: A site strictly for free culture webcartoons

Postby freemedia2018 » 30 Jul 2019, 18:15

fluffrabbit {l Wrote}:Like Open Cola? Yeah, no thanks.


I don't understand the implied significance of that example. What does Open Cola have to do with this? (Also what's the problem with Open Cola? I've never tried it, if it still exists I can't imagine it's something many people have tried.)

It's kinda shitty to slap a logo on some public domain footage and sell it as if it's original IP.


There's actually nothing wrong with selling things in the public domain. It's the only reason we can buy Shakespeare or Mark Twain in paper.

Misrepresenting it as copyrighted is of dubious merit, though there are (sadly) some legitimate (legal) reasons people can get away with that sometimes. Misrepresenting public domain material as under copyright isn't legal. The legalities are complicated though.

That's not cool, but it's legal, and in fact it's also permitted under the GPL.


Wrong, and-- mistaken. Your example is probably legitimate-- your summary/description however, is in error.

a site where artists shoot themselves in the foot with the misconception that giving away IP is beneficial.


We clearly have a stark difference of opinion there.

If you ask me, intellectual property is a great construct


Well, it's deeply misleading.

Property rights in the United States are in fact VERY different (legally, practically, conceptually) than copyright law, trademark law, and patent law.

"IP" is a propaganda term that Jack Valenti of the MPAA promoted heavily during his life, with the hopes (and success) of getting people to confuse the terms of copyright and trademarks and patents so they were easier to twist the public perception of.

In fact it would violate Article I of the constitution if copyright or patents, for example, worked like property rights. So the entire concept is actually BUNK.

Designed to prop up monopolies who unconstitutionally steal our entire culture and then rent it back to us for profit, it's a very deliberate lie.

, and one which I will continue to support until in some distant future the very concept of copyright disintegrates.


That's your choice.
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Re: A site strictly for free culture webcartoons

Postby fluffrabbit » 30 Jul 2019, 18:33

As you have said, we have stark differences of opinion. I don't doubt that in the constitutional days when freedom reigned, copyright wasn't a high priority and they had a lax view on it. But modern IP law seeks to overcome shortcomings in the constitution in much the same way that the liberals try to take our guns away. What I care about more than the constitution is business rights, but as you've said, we have a stark difference of opinion.
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Re: A site strictly for free culture webcartoons

Postby freemedia2018 » 30 Jul 2019, 18:35

fluffrabbit {l Wrote}:What I care about more than the constitution is business rights


It should probably outrage people that you want to take rights away from the public and put them exclusively and unconstitutionally in the hands of businesses. Those aren't "rights" but illegal, unethical double standards at the expense of everyone. But yes, definite difference of opinion.

modern IP law seeks to overcome shortcomings in the constitution in much the same way that the liberals try to take our guns away.


Or like trying to repeal the 14th amendment and reintroducing slavery.

I'm not talking about the racial aspects of slavery, the modern version of slavery still leans towards racial lines but certainly includes labour from every race. Perhaps these "business rights" that outweigh the constitution in importance could include more cheap labour? If we are going to allow businesses the "right" to steal exclusive control of all cultural works, why not also give them slaves? Why not also give them the right to murder customers? I mean, we are now advocating the arbitrary establishment of unconstitutional rights "for businesses only." So really, why not? Where's the line? Is it about "whatever is good for money," or just whatever they would like to have, or what? Because I'm not against profit per se but I am against basically turning RICO upside-down and saying "well that's okay, if you're a for-profit corporation."
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Re: A site strictly for free culture webcartoons

Postby fluffrabbit » 30 Jul 2019, 20:20

It's all a matter of priorities. Get in the way of my profits and you risk your life. Maybe you feel secure in whatever excuse for a life you call your pathetic existence, but here we have a difference of opinion.
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Re: A site strictly for free culture webcartoons

Postby freemedia2018 » 30 Jul 2019, 20:23

fluffrabbit {l Wrote}:It's all a matter of priorities. Get in the way of my profits and you risk your life. Maybe you feel secure in whatever excuse for a life you call your pathetic existence


So money over people, basically? Money over freedom? Money over rights for everybody except the rich?
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Re: A site strictly for free culture webcartoons

Postby fluffrabbit » 30 Jul 2019, 20:31

Get fucked. My business is my genetic offspring. Let's hope we never actually meet, because it may not end well.
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Re: A site strictly for free culture webcartoons

Postby freemedia2018 » 30 Jul 2019, 20:39

I would say I don't understand, but I think I do.

Either way, this thread is about "A site strictly for free culture webcartoons."

It's a very weird place to blame ME for supporting free culture and explaining why it exists, or what it tries to fix that was recently changed (in the past 50 years.) I support the idea that is the subject of the thread. I feel like you're trying to make me out to be a bad person for supporting it--

I'm having trouble following your justification of turning the entire history of human rights and freedom upside down, but you've given me nothing else to go on-- just monopoly justified by monopoly, and vague threats.

That's not a business model. If it is, the market ought to replace it with a better one. Business is an exchange that ideally benefits the business owner and the customer mutually. There are plenty of sociopathic business models-- those are the ones we want to discourage.
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Re: A site strictly for free culture webcartoons

Postby Julius » 30 Jul 2019, 21:09

We need a face palm emoticon here.

Please, what's the point of this flame war?

Topic closed :cry:
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