Add bounce sound for Jumpy.

[Savs]

Hume2 has added sound for Jumpy on GitHub, but the commit disappeared for unknown reason and has been lost forever (since there's no GitHub archive). I think it would be nice if we had a bounce sound for Jumpy as long as the players fellow level design guidelines. Someone can create a bounce sound for Jumpy and modify the code with distance volume, and them add them as attachment on this forum.

[brmbrmcar]

Seems like an OK idea, but may not work in practice.

[Hume2]

I've deleted it, because that sound was just annoying and I think that making another sound wouldn't work anyway. It's interresting, that even a few jumpys in the sector can make quite big noise all over the sector. If you don't want to hear the music, then implement this, yes.

[Savs]

This one may work but i never tested it and the code is pretty outdated:

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

     // setting the sound volume according to the distance
     // to the player
     float xdistance = fabs(Sector::current()->player->get_pos().x - get_pos().x);
     float ydistance = fabs(Sector::current()->player->get_pos().y - get_pos().y);
     // the classic pythagoras...
     float distance = (sqrt(xdistance*xdistance+ydistance*ydistance));
     // compute volume based on distance (32 turned out to be a good number)
     float volume = MIX_MAX_VOLUME - (int)(distance/(MIX_MAX_VOLUME/32));
     if (volume < 0) volume = 0;
     if (volume > MIX_MAX_VOLUME) volume = MIX_MAX_VOLUME;
     Mix_Chunk* soundToPlay = IDToSound(SND_SKID); // use existing sound-file to
                               // (to save disk memory and work + sounds pretty good)
     Mix_VolumeChunk(soundToPlay, (int)volume);
     SoundManager::get()->play_sound(soundToPlay);


Advice on how to get distance factor working on OpenAL?

[Savs]

What about blind players?

[MCMic]

I think it’s bad idea it will be too much noise.

For blind player we’d need to have an option to make all objects emit sound, even the ground so that holes can be spotted.

[onpon4]

There is no way a platformer is ever going to be playable by blind people. Never mind environmental sounds; that's just one part of what blind people depend on to navigate in real life, and it's not sufficient on its own. Either you need to be able to do something like echolocation (in any direction), or you need to be able to use your sensation of touch. Neither of these are possible with modern video games. It's unfortunate, but the only way a blind person is ever going to be able to enjoy any video game is if it's some sort of basic puzzle or board game with accessibility support, or if it's some kind of game specifically designed to be played with no graphics (either text-based, or specifically audio-based). Complex action games like SuperTux are not ever going to be accessible to blind people in the foreseeable future. Heck, even simple action games like Pong are not going to be playable by blind people in the foreseeable future.

[MCMic]

There is no way a platformer is ever going to be playable by blind people. Never mind environmental sounds; that's just one part of what blind people depend on to navigate in real life, and it's not sufficient on its own. Either you need to be able to do something like echolocation (in any direction), or you need to be able to use your sensation of touch. Neither of these are possible with modern video games. It's unfortunate, but the only way a blind person is ever going to be able to enjoy any video game is if it's some sort of basic puzzle or board game with accessibility support, or if it's some kind of game specifically designed to be played with no graphics (either text-based, or specifically audio-based). Complex action games like SuperTux are not ever going to be accessible to blind people in the foreseeable future. Heck, even simple action games like Pong are not going to be playable by blind people in the foreseeable future.

I’m not sure where you get your information from.
I’ve seen a public talk by a blind gamer and he was playing some complicated stuff. Nothing Free sadly.
IIRC Doom got adapted to be playable by blind people.

I’m not saying blind people will be able to compete with other players, but they can enjoy a game if it’s adapted to pass information by sound.

This is the talk I’ve seen: http://2010.rmll.info/How-blind-people-play-games.html
It seems it was recorded: https://rmll.ubicast.tv/videos/comment- ... ouent-ils/

[Hume2]

As said above, the games for blind players need to be specially designed for them. Even if the current SuperTux audio wouldn't be broken, there are still many kinds situations and other stuff, those don't affect the audio output in any way. Some states are detectable though. When there's a ceiling above Tux, he does smaller jumps, so he can jump more frequently. When is Tux falling, he can't jump, unlike when he's on ground. However, you still can't detect whether you're on a flat ground or on a slope. You can't detect whether you are walking you you are trying to walk trough a wall. You can't detect the most of the badguys being in front of you. As said above, you can't detect the holes in the ground in front of you. One-block parcours are near to impossible for blind players, even if they knew their exact scheme before. This is a very truncated list of features those blind players can't detect in SuperTux. And considering that even the obvious audio bugs weren't worth fixing so far, you can't expect that a blind player will be able to play SuperTux for a years, if ever.

[onpon4]

I’ve seen a public talk by a blind gamer and he was playing some complicated stuff.

And all of it is either entirely text-based or entirely audio-based. Thank you for proving my point.

[MCMic]

I’ve seen a public talk by a blind gamer and he was playing some complicated stuff.

And all of it is either entirely text-based or entirely audio-based. Thank you for proving my point.

One of them is Doom with modifications to be audio-based.
You said:

There is no way a platformer is ever going to be playable by blind people

This is false.

Now, I don’t intend to adapt supertux for blind players and I’m not asking that the devs work on it, I just wanted to point out that it’s not as impossible as some might think.

[Hume2]

It would be possible if the steps were emitting some kind of sounds and those sounds were modified based on the tiles arround. I'd explain it like that.
I'm not even saying that this is going to be implemented in SuperTux.

[onpon4]

One of them is Doom with modifications to be audio-based.
You said:

There is no way a platformer is ever going to be playable by blind people

This is false.

No, what he played is a completely original game inspired by Doom called Shades of Doom. It is completely specialized to work with sound. More importantly, it's a first-person shooter with heavy puzzle elements. This is a completely different type of game from a side-scrolling platformer. It isn't as action-packed, giving the player a chance to stop and listen to their surroundings, and the environment is much simpler to navigate and more similar to real life, making designing navigation around audio cues a feasible thing to do.

This is the crux of my point: it's possible for games to be designed to be played with audio only. But making action games primarily designed to be played with visuals work without visuals is not a realistic goal.

[Hume2]

That's true. The SuperTux physics is very far from reality, so there's the question how the audio should behave in such unrealistic level.

[brmbrmcar]

Why is everyone now talking about blind people playing the game? It's interesting, but should probably be in another topic to this.

[ctdabomb]

Note: moved topic to ST General

If a sound is implemented for jumpy, it needs to have a distance factor to not be annoying. Even with that idk if it would sound good. I usually play with sounds off.
As to blind people playing this/other games, I don't know enough about how they do that to speak well on the subject, but would assume that currently Supertux wouldn't quite work for them. It would be doable I'd think if there was interest....

[brmbrmcar]

It would also need more channels than stereo, for distance to work. Otherwise it would be even harder to play blind.

[Savs]

Even if the self made sound isn't good enough to be pushed to GitHub it still would be welcome to be posted on this forum as a interest for modders. It's still better than having silent Jumpys.

[Hume2]

OK, if anyone makes that, I'm willing to implement it. Just note that the distance factor must be set correctly, better test it in several levels, those have multiple jumpys.

[MCMic]

I’m pretty sure it will be annoying.

[Savs]

This could be a nice bounce sound for Jumpy but Hume2 already made own sound. It was named jumpy.ogg but the sound no longer exists on GitHub. The sound in attachment is taken from http://freesound.org/people/juskiddink/sounds/140867/ and it will be used for HangingBall in 0.5.0

[Hume2]

Don't worry, this sound is just a placeholder. It was just a joke that I didn't get.

[Savs]

SuperTux 3D has footstep sounds when Tux is walking on snow. So, why not implement them for this SuperTux project?

[brmbrmcar]

Where is the SuperTux 3D source code though?

[charlie]

Where is the SuperTux 3D source code though?

https://sourceforge.net/projects/supert ... s/5.05.10/

Looks like it is a .blend only (so the source is the .blend).