Biomes - overall idea

Biomes - overall idea

Postby Danimal » 30 Jun 2015, 23:18

So, the idea is to have a few different themed tilesets. Just a few or else we will go overkill, each biome has some specific creatures unique to it and its linked to the map state of the future campaign.
Ideally the dungeon core and throne room of heroes models changes with it along with walls and dirt type. My proposal:

Common creatures, they appear everywhere:
Cavehornet, Spider, Roach, Goblin, Warlock, Orc, Dark Elf, Miss Creeper (to be renamed) , Blood knigth, skeleton, ghoul, ghost (prison, cript, torture rooms respectively), Pitdemon

Dungeon: default biome, your common dungeon, the current theme.
Special units: Slime, wivern, dragon

Jungle: Aztec- swamp themed
Special units: tentacle, Swampling, Swampler, Lizardman warrior, Queen Roach(pending name)
Units that replace common ones: Lizardman Shaman > Warlock; Lizardman Brute (current lizarman) > orc;

Desert: Egiptian, sandy and beach like when there is water (doubles as pirate theme)
Special units: mermaid(not cute at all), Nagas (depends on Eugeneloza), Scarab

Iceland: Icy with ragnarok references, home of dwarfs
Special units: mangler, molewolf, troll

I added there planned creatures, most of them have models and are waiting for animations, Kreatur is left homeless, but i dont know where to fit it, and the idea is to only have a strong creature type per theme (Dragon, queen roach, Scarab, troll), any ideas,maybe allow 2 strong per theme?
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Re: Biomes - overall idea

Postby hwoarangmy » 02 Jul 2015, 11:29

IMHO, we need some more rooms because ATM, almost every creature comes when you build a dormitory + hatchery and the game is too repetitive.

To come back to your idea, it is feasible but would require many changes (ATM, we define specific creatures in the levels). Doing things like you want would require defining generic creatures (like level1a) and associate them with creatures per biome.
However, that will require many new models as it will greatly decrease the number of available creatures on one biome. Since ATM, you are the most active for this, I would say it is your call to decide if you want to go for such a change that will put many work on your shoulders (and you have not talked about hero faction - will it have only 1 creature set ?). Moreover, we still have some stuff pending (like the creature that should raise up in the crypt)

IMHO, your idea is good in a second step when we will have enough creatures to allow ourselves to use them only on specific biomes. But as a first step, I think it will be too many work for no real ingame improvement (since, again, rooms/spells are the most needed ATM). But if we plan to go for something like that later, it would be a good thing to decide it now and to adapt things for that (like generic creatures in levels)
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Re: Biomes - overall idea

Postby Danimal » 02 Jul 2015, 15:05

Couldnt it be done by defining spawn pools per bione in the config file?; and yes its a very long term planning.
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Re: Biomes - overall idea

Postby hwoarangmy » 02 Jul 2015, 18:44

Danimal {l Wrote}:Couldnt it be done by defining spawn pools per bione in the config file?
Well, it could but in reality, we need to choose if we want a strong link between the biome and the level. In the editor, we would allow creatures/entities available for this biome only. The bad point is that changing from one biome to another will be very painfull.
On the other hand, we can see the biome as a level parameter (replacing the tileset). Then, creatures/entities would be generic and chosen at map load. That would allow to easily change the biome but would make the level file much less readable (since specific stuff will be defined with generic names instead of the biome related one). For example, creatures would be "KeeperLevel4a" instead of "PitDemon".
In any case, we will need to define a spawning pool per biome as you suggest as well as the corresponding tileset.

Danimal {l Wrote}:and yes its a very long term planning.
That's a good idea to define such things to make sure we go for a compatible architecture.
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Re: Biomes - overall idea

Postby eugeneloza » 04 Jul 2015, 19:19

A quick idea (didn't think on the question too deeply): different creatures efficiency depends on the biome. I.e. Lizardmen are devastating in swamp, but weak in dungeon. Ork likes dungeons and is weak in desert. Nagas feels perfect in desert (or sea?) but is very weak in swamps.
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Re: Biomes - overall idea

Postby Danimal » 04 Jul 2015, 23:19

i think its better to stick to some species appearing in certain biomes, since you recruit from the local fauna, making some creatures weaker on certain levels doesnt add much, since you would just kill them rigth after spawn
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Re: Biomes - overall idea

Postby hwoarangmy » 05 Jul 2015, 08:34

eugeneloza {l Wrote}:A quick idea (didn't think on the question too deeply): different creatures efficiency depends on the biome. I.e. Lizardmen are devastating in swamp, but weak in dungeon. Ork likes dungeons and is weak in desert. Nagas feels perfect in desert (or sea?) but is very weak in swamps.
The idea is interesting but it will need many balancing to make sure the game is well balanced on every biome. It's already hard to balance on 1 so on many... Not talking about the impact if we find a creature too weak/powerfull and we want to change its stats it will need to check balancing on every biome...
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Re: Biomes - overall idea

Postby Bertram » 09 Jul 2015, 08:19

Hey,

Personally, I wouldn't add a strong link between creature and biomes, just spawn pool config and we're done IMHO.

In fact, the idea was even that a scenario could make a unique creature appear (like a boss or whatever - See Greed or Might for instance) and everything is already supported.
If we ever get some "outsiders" who are creating a new mod on their own, they will want to be able to create their own spawn pool for their new shiny biome anyway,
with custom creature variations, and with the current implementation, we're handling every cases in the most simple way, still IMO.

As for the creature strength/weakness according to a biome, again, I think the concept is good but not to be applied that way as it's a balance hell as hwoarangmy pointed out.
I'd rather have creatures behave differently depending on the tile type, a trap, or a active/passive spell area, and such, and that's already more or less implemented.

If someone wants a more unique behaviour for a specific scenarii, he can always override stats of existing creatures in his level file.
After all, level design is as important as the core mechanisms. :)

As for Danimal first post's proposal, I like it and it's already feasible, IMO. The main job is now to create the tileset. But please, let's make the first one glitches free, first. It will then be a good template for the next ones.

Best regards,
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