[DONE] OD Windows binaries

[Danimal]

My impressions:

The good:
its a new game with the tile color fix
creatures rush to battle instead of idling when near enemy
i like the extra spawn speed, is good for testing
the beds are now created faster and more efficiently
the new rooms and icons

the bad:
kobolds still idle instead of going to work when they cant see the task (other side of the dungeon)
Beds dont dissapear when the owner dies, sometimes a new creature builds its bed over a dead creature´s one.
New textures arent showing like they should, im sure its a problem related to how the engine shows Normal/specularity maps, since textures without normals are ok (dormitory one)
Old treasury texture is still used instead of new one (material/normal/specular maps are fine though)

the ugly:
Paul

[Bertram]

Hi

Thanks for the feedback!
I just fixed the middle-click stat window (and made it possible to close it), btw:
That one was a bit nasty since I'm still a noob with CEGUI, but this API is rather friendly once you get to know it.

As for the feedback:

creatures rush to battle instead of idling when near enemy

I do think you might have fixed it yourself when balancing the values of the creatures, along with a mix of luck, I guess.
Note that the workers will still keep working rather than fleeing though.

Beds dont dissapear when the owner dies, sometimes a new creature builds its bed over a dead creature´s one.

Yeah, and the dormitory room is still crash-prone. Nobody managed to fix that yet. I guess a good code cleanup in that class is needed.

New textures arent showing like they should, im sure its a problem related to how the engine shows Normal/specularity maps, since textures without normals are ok (dormitory one)

Same thought here. I actually spend a lot of time testing the material language against Linux/windows and have different behaviour there because of the difference in capabilities of the drivers.
The creatures and most tile models should use the RTT shader system again now, making them a bit better looking. (Phew...) But when it comes to apply speculars/normals, I used your material scripts as is.
I know that one can create tangents/normals on models using the Orgre API in case the models doesn't have some, and I've also seen a function in OD made to apply a normal texture on a model through code.
I guess sometimes in the future we should investigate if we have better result with the code I've seen there.
If a specific creature is looking really ugly, please tell, and I'll have a look.

Old treasury texture is still used instead of new one (material/normal/specular maps are fine though)

Must be my mistake. I made this build so you can also have a taste on the library and why not test other textures, feel free to reapply them if needed.

Regards,

[paul424]

Don't bother with the window, I could make it later to look better . You are really a titan of work !
I see there are some mechanism changed like spawning pools and removal of creature characteristic ( ? ) . We lack some nice place , where we could document or say abstractly about mechanism on which the OD is build upon . Yeah I can see it's RTT , cause the golden yellow steam-punk digger, has now the square texture rotating inside it ( with one of it's cog wheel, this texture should to be opaque , right :P ? ) ... I already pushed paul424-stacktrace and paul424-image2map to the development branch , and I can start merging yours.

[Bertram]

Hi Paul,

You are really a titan of work !

Thank you. hwoarangmy, MCMic and you are doing well in that area, too.

Don't bother with the window, I could make it later to look better .

Indeed, we need to make it really part of the game and not some kind debugging window. You're right about that.
I just wanted to start somewhere and fix a crash course.

I guess this window should be remade using some nicer layout, and using the layout system with nicer controls.
The common in-game window skin is more and more needed, I guess.

I see there are some mechanism changed like spawning pools and removal of creature characteristic ( ? ) .

Yeah, this was discussed with Danimal, mostly, and others, and we all wanted to have a spawn system with conditions, not based on faction probabilities anymore.

We lack some nice place , where we could document or say abstractly about mechanism on which the OD is build upon .

There are a lot of interesting duscussions happening on the forums, and I try to keep track of the tasks in the wiki TODO-List. But yeah, between the creatures list, we'll need to document all the game mechanisms properly on the wiki, present and future.

Yeah I can see it's RTT , cause the golden yellow steam-punk digger, has now the square texture rotating inside it ( with one of it's cog wheel, this texture should to be opaque , right :P ? )

True.

I already pushed paul424-stacktrace and paul424-image2map to the development branch

Ok for the stack trace, even if with the ois parameter, gdb debugging is easier than even, now. Yet, the image2map code isn't finished yet, why did you merge it?

and I can start merging yours.

Please test it. But I'd rather merge it myself since it's kinda my responsability.

Regards,

[paul424]

Well I put some fixes to image2map as well , as you pointed out, sorry for that faux pas , should I revert it ? It does not collide with anything , and you can SOME maps with that ?

[Danimal]

Same thought here. I actually spend a lot of time testing the material language against Linux/windows and have different behaviour there because of the difference in capabilities of the drivers.
The creatures and most tile models should use the RTT shader system again now, making them a bit better looking. (Phew...) But when it comes to apply speculars/normals, I used your material scripts as is.
I know that one can create tangents/normals on models using the Orgre API in case the models doesn't have some, and I've also seen a function in OD made to apply a normal texture on a model through code.
I guess sometimes in the future we should investigate if we have better result with the code I've seen there.
If a specific creature is looking really ugly, please tell, and I'll have a look.

well , they look really ugly on my pc, can anyone else with windows confirm it? If its the only way i can re-export everything without normals, and sorry but i barely understand what you tell above. So is something that can be fixed or are normals forbiden for now?

[Bertram]

Well I put some fixes to image2map as well , as you pointed out, sorry for that faux pas , should I revert it ? It does not collide with anything , and you can SOME maps with that ?

I think it's not worth reverting for the reason you gave. We're just lacking glue to make the beast load it, right?
Ah, and did you deal with rooms/traps? I mean shall I make maps using two images or something else?
Can you you describe the feature in an user point of view?

Thanks!

[Bertram]

well , they look really ugly on my pc, can anyone else with windows confirm it? If its the only way i can re-export everything without normals, and sorry but i barely understand what you tell above. So is something that can be fixed or are normals forbiden for now?

Awww, sorry to hear that. Uglier than the previous version? Could you give me a few screenies?

Thanks.

[Bertram]

Heya,

One last fix for that long dev day, eh.

I added support to colorize tiles independently with the dig mark or the claiming color.
The dig color is now the same for every local player. I chose yellow a bit at random and maybe because it reminded me of DK1.
Note that you can't and shouldn't be able to know what others have selected for digging anyway.

This permitted to simplify the coloring mechanism a bit, remove a useless render request and fix the case where a wall tile was unclaimed
when you selected and deselected it.

Once we've sorted out why creatures are uglier than they should be. Maybe it'll be time to remake the claimed walls tiles, so that they can be colored
the way the ground claim tile are. Like only crosses on the walls or something.

Regards,

[Danimal]

Actually the new textures look just like they do in your latest screen, all black with some kind of huge reflection effect, and the library ones are dark blue/purple-ish (im sure by effect of the normal map) like in your previous screenshot.

I just fixed the middle-click stat window (and made it possible to close it), btw:
That one was a bit nasty since I'm still a noob with CEGUI, but this API is rather friendly once you get to know it.

That is pretty good, but just a temporary solution imo, we need something like the life flower from DK games, so its easy to know creatures health and levels at a glance, not to mention being able to know which ones are yours into a big figth and recovering near death ones.

Old treasury texture is still used instead of new one (material/normal/specular maps are fine though)


Must be my mistake. I made this build so you can also have a taste on the library and why not test other textures, feel free to reapply them if needed.

So, will you correct it?, im sorry but i still dont have access to github or be able to compile (clumsy me)

That all said, this is a hell of an update, freaking good jobs guys!

[MCMic]

Claimed tiles and walls are kind of ugly. Diggers are leveling up way too fast (I don’t mean their stats I mean their level number).

The change of the keyboard grab breaks keyboard in game on my computer.

[Bertram]

Hi guys,

@Danimal:

Actually the new textures look just like they do in your latest screen, all black with some kind of huge reflection effect, and the library ones are dark blue/purple-ish (im sure by effect of the normal map) like in your previous screenshot.

I must say that between the drivers problems and your latest comments, I'm not sure what's wrong or right with normals anymore. I lack experience in that area so I guess we will have to ask on Ogre forums about that soon.
But anyway, please post exactly what textures are all black, I fail at seeing what you mean.

So, will you correct it?, im sorry but i still dont have access to github or be able to compile (clumsy me)

On github, the new ones are used already so I guess it was me mishandling the copy when creating the new zip file. Sorry again.

That is pretty good, but just a temporary solution imo, we need something like the life flower from DK games, so its easy to know creatures health and levels at a glance, not to mention being able to know which ones are yours into a big figth and recovering near death ones.

Good idea, do you have an original concept in mind? I was thinking about displaying the level

@MCMic:

Claimed tiles and walls are kind of ugly. Diggers are leveling up way too fast (I don’t mean their stats I mean their level number).

Walls ok, I knew but you're finding the claimed ground tiles ugly even with just the cross colored? Maybe it's because of the green color we aren't used to in DK games.
Maybe go see the Red AI to get a better idea on how ground tiles are colored in red.
If that's something else, please tell what's wrong and how to improve it in your opinion, I'll use some help gracefully.

The change of the keyboard grab breaks keyboard in game on my computer.

Damn. Well, I guess I've tried. I'll revert it.

Regards,

[Danimal]

How do you make screenshots? i tried "printpage" button and an external program, but its always a black capture.
As for the life flower, we can just copy it or be original (war for the overworld uses a life shield) but i cant think of a fitting shape

Claimed tiles and walls are kind of ugly. Diggers are leveling up way too fast (I don’t mean their stats I mean their level number).

Walls ok, I knew but you're finding the claimed ground tiles ugly even with just the cross colored? Maybe it's because of the green color we aren't used to in DK games.

Its all because the tiles normal map is not applied, that makes the floor tile a lot more bright, the cross color is also too shiny, so both of them combined give that bad impression. Overall normal maps are not behaving at all, they are projecting a blue hue over most static models (and a few creatures).

[Elvano]

Dude , use the keyboard button PrinScreen

I think that's what he means with

i tried "printpage" button and an external program, but its always a black capture.

[Danimal]

Exactly, it doesnt work, is there an internal key or command to take screenshots?

[paul424]

I just added some command , but currently no .
Look I always ask programmers to make separate command for each feature they make. Like with the hwaragony pause feature -- I am ignored ...
EDIT: You can always look into ./config/console_commands.txt

[MCMic]

Its all because the tiles normal map is not applied, that makes the floor tile a lot more bright, the cross color is also too shiny, so both of them combined give that bad impression.

Sounds a lot like what I’m seeing.

[oln]

Exactly, it doesnt work, is there an internal key or command to take screenshots?

Quite sure there used to be one at least.

[Bertram]

Its all because the tiles normal map is not applied, that makes the floor tile a lot more bright, the cross color is also too shiny, so both of them combined give that bad impression.

Sounds a lot like what I’m seeing.

Ok, new try:

I made the "default" unclaimed color send no light at all (hence the black), and made only the emissive and ambient values change to the team color when claimed.
This is making the result much less radioactive shiny, and should be less eye-hurting. What do you think about it?

On Linux, pushing the Print Screen key makes OD create a OD_screenshot_X.png file in the same folder than the application.
I'll check what's done on Windows but even there, I can push print screen and then paste the result in paint, for instance. That's weird.

As for the rest, It's true there is something with violet lighting applied when trying to apply normals? I'll ask on Ogre for help.

Look I always ask programmers to make separate command for each feature they make. Like with the hwaragony pause feature -- I am ignored ...

Well, he never said he agreed doing it, and I must say I'm glad he's on more vital features than the console, anyway.

Regards,

[Danimal]

cant it be toned to a ligth grey? black is not the best in my opinion

[MCMic]

It looks better.
But Forge, heart and portal still have a texture problem as on your screenshot, seems like the texture is missing or transparent.
Creatures in the Dojo are not gaining any xp as we can see with middle clic.
Kobolds are walking on lava and not on water instead of the opposite.
Kobolds seems fine with negative awakeness value, shouldn’t they go to sleep?

Their is no way to destoy a room tile if you misclick.

[Bertram]

Hi guys,

Newest try:

cant it be toned to a ligth grey? black is not the best in my opinion

It looks better.

I have a counter-proposal: brown of the tone of the rest of the texture. Easier to achieve than grey without diffuse btw.
What do you think? (Please have a look at full size)

But Forge, heart and portal still have a texture problem as on your screenshot, seems like the texture is missing or transparent.

The textures are there, but indeed, they look weird. I can't help that for the moment, I'll need to try my luck on Ogre forums.

Kobolds are walking on lava and not on water instead of the opposite.

A bit of history, OD doesn't not support the difference between lava and water. At the moment, creature can either search a path trough walkable tiles, flyable tiles, diggable tiles or everything. Danimal has setup Kobolds in the creatures.def file to behave like flyable creature.
What is left to do is to add support to walk on water but not on lava, and why not the reverse for lava creatures first.

Kobolds seems fine with negative awakeness value, shouldn’t they go to sleep?

Worker units don't care about being sleepy since it doesn't affect them. As an evidence, they never go to create a bed. For now, I'v removed the info for workers in the stats window
and I made sure to update the creatures stats in the window on a regular basis.

Creatures in the Dojo are not gaining any xp as we can see with middle clic.

True, I knew it would be useful to see creatures stats live so I'm happy this window is back for now. It's now fixed as well on github.

Note that we'll want a better concept to show the creatures level and hp, but this window will be useful in the editor mode, to setup the creature names and team id for instance.
Same goes for rooms.

Their is no way to destoy a room tile if you misclick.

Please go to http://game-icons.net/ and choose an icon for the rooms removal. I'll add the button, and we'll see about how adding this. (Should help testing rooms btw)
Deleting rooms should give back half of the money, right?

Regards,

[paul424]

Ehem , my first impression : SHouldn't you run the CG plugin, to see how the textures really look like ?
EDIT : http://game-icons.net/ wee I saw that site earlier , kudos to you for using them !

[Danimal]

I have a counter-proposal: brown of the tone of the rest of the texture. Easier to achieve than grey without diffuse btw.
What do you think? (Please have a look at full size)

Yes, its good.

Please go to http://game-icons.net/ and choose an icon for the rooms removal. I'll add the button, and we'll see about how adding this. (Should help testing rooms btw)
Deleting rooms should give back half of the money, right?

It did, would be nice if you integrate it

Most fitting i could find:

http://game-icons.net/lorc/originals/wrecking-ball.html

Miley Cyrus comes as an extra in the premium version

Danimal has setup Kobolds in the creatures.def file to behave like flyable creature

Ugly, but i think is needed to avoid having to micro-manage your worker horde, even if they still need babysitting until someone reverts the behaviour of only working on task they can directly see. Just try having them mine gold and see how they deposit it and idle on the treasury instead of going back to the digging.

[hwoarangmy]

Look I always ask programmers to make separate command for each feature they make. Like with the hwaragony pause feature -- I am ignored ...

I was not ignoring you. It's just that back then, I had never tried the console and I didn't know what you meant. But now, I have made some changes and added a console commande "pause" to get/set pause within the console so you can play as you want
And now, when you open/close the console, the pause state is keeped.