Idea of a new gamemode: HTF

[RaZgRiZ]

I opened this thread to discuss the mode i thought of and any changes you guys might think are proper. Maybe it'll become reality if people approve, we'll see.
So take a look at it and let me know what you guys think!

Hide the Flag gamemode.

Requires at least 2 teams. The point of this mode is to increase your team's point by stealing and hiding the enemy's flag(s) and killing its members. There is no upper point limit, and the match ends when the time limit of 15 minutes has been reached.


The rules of scoring are as follow:

01) The team which has stolen an enemy flag earns 1 point per second of captivity, for a total of 20 seconds before becoming "inactive"
........To "reactivate" a stolen enemy flag, it merely needs to be given to another teammate.
02) Should the enemy flag be returned to the base of the team who stole it while their home flag is present, it will provide an additional
....+3% bonus to the end score of the respective team, stackable to +15% max. It will also give a 10 points for capture.
........If a team has achieved the maximum score bonus, the team with the lowest score earns 2 points per second of flag captivity. The
........bonus persists as long as it is in last place, otherwise another team may be given the bonus instead. (POSSIBLY MISBALANCING)
03) Killing a member of any opposing team scores 3 points to the team who killed them, and 5 points per flag holder kill.


The mechanics are as follow:

01) Teammates may pickup their home flag and hide it among their ranks.
........In turn, the flag becomes invisible to enemies and the flag holder has to be killed to re-appear.

02) The flag is always visible to teammates when carried by one, but not when an enemy has stolen it.
........Dropping and picking up the flag is allowed. (Will become visible to others when dropped)

03) If the flag is dropped near its respective base, it will reset.

[cimni]

This sounds like the CTF > Hold mode.

[greaserpirate]

This sounds like the CTF > Hold mode.

CTF protect, I think you mean. It does sound pretty similar, except for flags being invisible to the other team. It sounds pretty interesting, and I'd love to see a server with this mode, as long as you make it clear it's modified. I could do some coding if you need me; I'm not really an expert but I've made a TTT-like gamemode for RE a while back.

One thing that might need to be worked on is getting players with their team's flag to participate fully in battle. In normal protect, flag camping isn't so much of a problem since the enemy always knows where you are. With the flag carrier being invisible, it's easier for them to get away with sitting in a corner and doing nothing helpful for their team. Buffing and additional points may help and I encourage you to use them for this mode, but they won't solve the problem completely; the flag carrier is still the one in control, and if they're a coward the only thing you can do is teamkill them, which puts you in an awkward place. A better system might involve a countdown like hold bomber-ball, where fragging enemies resets the timer; maybe you could also make assists add 10 seconds, and/or make the countdown go slower when teammates are being buffed.

Also, what happens after an enemy captures your flag seems really overcomplicated. For the sake of saving tons of time, I'd suggest you first make a 'milestone' version first, where the enemy simply scores (say, 20 points) and the flag is reset. That way, the hidden-flag-carrier part is still the same, but you don't have to spend a ton of work fixing bugs and loopholes that come with complicated code; also, simpler rules are better for the players (see: why nobody wants to play my TTT gamemode ) Also, you'd have to make it so that the enemy can't camp with your flag; the 30-second countdown might help, but two can camp as easily as one as far as I'm concerned. (Though bonuses for CTF might help shift incentives)

Anyway, good luck, and if there's anything I can do to help, let me know

[RaZgRiZ]

One thing that might need to be worked on is getting players with their team's flag to participate fully in battle. In normal protect, flag camping isn't so much of a problem since the enemy always knows where you are. With the flag carrier being invisible, it's easier for them to get away with sitting in a corner and doing nothing helpful for their team. Buffing and additional points may help and I encourage you to use them for this mode, but they won't solve the problem completely; the flag carrier is still the one in control, and if they're a coward the only thing you can do is teamkill them, which puts you in an awkward place. A better system might involve a countdown like hold bomber-ball, where fragging enemies resets the timer; maybe you could also make assists add 10 seconds, and/or make the countdown go slower when teammates are being buffed.

Also, what happens after an enemy captures your flag seems really overcomplicated. For the sake of saving tons of time, I'd suggest you first make a 'milestone' version first, where the enemy simply scores (say, 20 points) and the flag is reset. That way, the hidden-flag-carrier part is still the same, but you don't have to spend a ton of work fixing bugs and loopholes that come with complicated code; also, simpler rules are better for the players (see: why nobody wants to play my TTT gamemode ) Also, you'd have to make it so that the enemy can't camp with your flag; the 30-second countdown might help, but two can camp as easily as one as far as I'm concerned. (Though bonuses for CTF might help shift incentives)

Now that's the kind of reply i was waiting for. I did think of someone camping a flag out, so maybe instead of pointing out where someone's hiding with the enemy flag, i think i will set a max of 20 points per carrier before the flag becomes useless to the person holding it. So if someone decides to hide with it, they will only be slowing their own team down; i'm not sure whether it should reset though, they could just teamkill the person who's camping it and take it without any problems, teamkills do not affect the points of a team.

I'm unsure what you have in mind with "buffing", but it seems to contradict your suggestion of simple rules :P
I've edited the original post accordingly to my idea.

[greaserpirate]

i'm not sure whether it should reset though, they could just teamkill the person who's camping it and take it without any problems, teamkills do not affect the points of a team.

Yeah.. but being put in the position of "I gotta kill my teammate because they're not doing this right" is not a good place to be.


About the flag camping when the enemy has your flag, a 20-second timer won't really be effective, since you could easily have two players sitting in a secure spot off the map dropping the flag, picking it up, dropping it again, etc. The timer idea was more for people holding their own team's flag.

But then again, I guess flag camping won't be that much of an issue when the enemy has your flag, since their main incentive is to capture it back at their home base. I missed out on the importance of that when I first read through your description; all I saw was "hidden flag carrier" and "earns points per second" and I assumed their first incentive would be to hide away somewhere.

I'm unsure what you have in mind with "buffing", but it seems to contradict your suggestion of simple rules :P

Whenever you stand next to a teammate holding your flag (or, in defend-the-flag, a flag you've secured) you get increased regen and damage, and you see a message telling you you're being buffed. It works well in protect-CTF at getting flag carriers out and about helping their teammates. Since it's an already existing feature, by all means you should use it to your advantage.

[RaZgRiZ]

Yeah.. but being put in the position of "I gotta kill my teammate because they're not doing this right" is not a good place to be.

It never is, but someone's gotta do the job if their teammate is being an ass and ruining the game for them :P

About the flag camping when the enemy has your flag, a 20-second timer won't really be effective, since you could easily have two players sitting in a secure spot off the map dropping the flag, picking it up, dropping it again, etc. The timer idea was more for people holding their own team's flag.

Well, doing so makes the flag momentarily visible to others so you won't remain hidden for long. A "last known position" indication could linger for a couple of seconds after each switch to help seekers, but that just might complicate things, i don't know..

But then again, I guess flag camping won't be that much of an issue when the enemy has your flag, since their main incentive is to capture it back at their home base. I missed out on the importance of that when I first read through your description; all I saw was "hidden flag carrier" and "earns points per second" and I assumed their first incentive would be to hide away somewhere.

Their main incentive is to score points, and to capture an enemy flag they have to take the enemy flag back to their own base while their own flag is deposited there, which ups their multiplier for the end score. I can't think of anything else to balance flag holding wih fragging people without putting the mode to the test

Whenever you stand next to a teammate holding your flag (or, in defend-the-flag, a flag you've secured) you get increased regen and damage, and you see a message telling you you're being buffed. It works well in protect-CTF at getting flag carriers out and about helping their teammates. Since it's an already existing feature, by all means you should use it to your advantage.

Interesting. But that might just work against people if they want to attract less suspicion to their flag carrier. All in all, HTF is a mode where large concentrations of people could mean that the flag carrier is hiding somewhere among that group.

[greaserpirate]

Their main incentive is to score points, and to capture an enemy flag they have to take the enemy flag back to their own base while their own flag is deposited there, which ups their multiplier for the end score. I can't think of anything else to balance flag holding wih fragging people without putting the mode to the test.

Ah, I see. Having the enemy-flag carrier be active on the front lines is another good goal to have. You'd need to make it so that the team with two flags isn't just kicking the other team while they're down, but if you can find a way to make it even, it's definitely doable.

By the way, just wondering: you mentioned "3 points per kill, and 5 points per flag holder kill"... does that mean 5 points when your guy with the flag gets a kill, or 5 points to the other team when they get fragged?

[RaZgRiZ]

Ah, I see. Having the enemy-flag carrier be active on the front lines is another good goal to have. You'd need to make it so that the team with two flags isn't just kicking the other team while they're down, but if you can find a way to make it even, it's definitely doable.

By the way, just wondering: you mentioned "3 points per kill, and 5 points per flag holder kill"... does that mean 5 points when your guy with the flag gets a kill, or 5 points to the other team when they get fragged?

Well, not so much as "going to the front lines" rather than "avoid hiding behind the others". It's kinda like a poker-face, the less you try to act like you have a good hand, the more chances you have of living longer.

And you get 3 points for every normal enemy you kill. If said enemy was hiding a flag though, you'll get 5 points instead.