[PROPOSAL] Arena mutator: weapon randomizer

[Ulukai]

In RE v1.4 weapon loadouts will be default, so you get to choose 2 weapons before you spawn (if you want to see weapon pickups without spawn weapon, you have to choose the "classic" mutator). Since loadouts will be default, I was thinking it could be fun to add a mutator which gives you random weapons after each death. The current system already allows you to have the game pick random weapons each time you die, but forcing players to spawn with random weapons would not only be a good way to practice with all weapons but would also prevent very skilled players to abuse 1 weapon during an entire match.

To be clear, I'm not proposing this to be default or anything, but I can see the fun of it. Just like how Xonotic has a mutator that gives each player the same weapon after each X seconds / minutes, this could be an alternative for RE.
Tell me what you think (other advantages / disadvantages, why you would want it or no, etc) and please vote in the poll for your preference. If you choose yes and have a good name for it, you can share it here as well. I was thinking of "surprise".

[TheLastProject]

I would personally think the Xonotic way of switching every X seconds would be more interesting, as it would force being able to adapt your tactics quite quickly. I won't say that random-weapon-after-death wouldn't be fun, but I think the Xonotic way would be a lot more fun. Also, you can already choose "random" to spawn with a random weapon after each death, so the mutator would be no different for those who already use random weapons.

I would personally go for something like "randomize", as this would be a clearer description. It's probably not the best mutator name, though.

(I have refrained from voting because, even though I like your idea, I would personally prefer it the Xonotic way myself)

[Ulukai]

I would personally think the Xonotic way of switching every X seconds would be more interesting, as it would force being able to adapt your tactics quite quickly. I won't say that random-weapon-after-death wouldn't be fun, but I think the Xonotic way would be a lot more fun. Also, you can already choose "random" to spawn with a random weapon after each death, so the mutator would be no different for those who already use random weapons.

I would personally go for something like "randomize", as this would be a clearer description. It's probably not the best mutator name, though.

(I have refrained from voting because, even though I like your idea, I would personally prefer it the Xonotic way myself)

I have changed the poll to include the Xonotic option, because I mentioned it in my first post already. I can see people enjoy that, but maybe we need to seperate ourself a bit from other games and try to do something unique ourselves?

EDIT: The votes that had been cast already are gone because I changed the poll. I'm sorry for that. Those who had voted already, please vote again!

[qreeves]

I can't form an opinion really, as I have not played Xonotic.

[TheLastProject]

I can't form an opinion really, as I have not played Xonotic.

You are aware of how it works, don't you? In case you don't, here's the gist of it:
The game selects one weapon, and all players use that weapon. After a countdown (I believe it's 15 seconds in Xonotic), the game selects another weapon and gives this to the players as only weapon.

In Red Eclipse, this would of course have a variable related to it to set the time limit

But it would go like this:
Everybody Flamer -> 15 seconds later -> Everybody Sword -> 15 seconds later -> Everybody Mines -> Etc.

In Ulukai's way, it would go like this:
Spawn with Flamer -> Die -> Spawn with Sword -> Die -> Spawn with Mines -> Etc.

In both cases, the weapons would obviously be randomly selected. I personally vote against Ulukai's way because to me, it seems exactly the same as everyone just selecting "random" in arena, while the Xonotic way (they call it "Nix" there, which is also the German word for "nothing", which makes it practically impossible to find a YouTube video of) would turn it into a battle in which you will have to quickly show how good you are with the weapon you get given, while all others will show their skill for that very same weapon.

[BruceW]

Generally, I like that idea.

Short remark to Ulukai's way: what if I keep pressing K to get the weapon I want? Or would I respawn with the weapon I had before I died?

Not to ask this question at all, I prefer the way how it is in Xonotic.

[qreeves]

I think Ulukai was just trying to come up with a variation on an idea that was both simple and an effort to keep RE unique. Please bear that in mind, it is fine everyone prefers Xonotic's way of doing things, but I do encourage you to be more original.

[Ulukai]

I think Ulukai was just trying to come up with a variation on an idea that was both simple and an effort to keep RE unique. Please bear that in mind, it is fine everyone prefers Xonotic's way of doing things, but I do encourage you to be more original.

That is what I mean indeed. RE is unique in every way up to this point and I think we should try to keep it that way instead of blindly stealing from other games. I dont know if Xonotics way would even be possible in RE.

If you suicide, do you lose points then? If not, I believe you should spawn with the same weapons again to discourage cheating.

[TheLastProject]

I think Ulukai was just trying to come up with a variation on an idea that was both simple and an effort to keep RE unique. Please bear that in mind, it is fine everyone prefers Xonotic's way of doing things, but I do encourage you to be more original.

We could have it randomize some weapon values as well, so that sometimes everyone spawns with a rapid-fire rifle or so. So, instead of just adding weapons, adding them with different variables as a "mutated" version of the weapon which can be chosen by the system as well? I guess that's at least somewhat more original. Red Eclipse could also just randomize values, but that would risk the game creating weapons which make no sense at all (0-damage rapid-fire huge-explosion rifle), unless we give it a list with values it is allowed to randomize.

We would either give the game a list like this:

Pistol
-- Low-damage rapid-fire pistol
-- High-damage pistol which sets people on fire
Etc.

Or we could give it a list like this, which says which variables it is allowed to mess around with:

Pistol
-- add (1 to 50)
-- max (1 to 50)
-- damage (10 to 100)
-- hitpush (1 to 1000)
Etc.

Of course, right now, I'm just throwing ideas out randomly, hoping to spark a discussion regarding how we can have this to be more original then. I am fully aware that my idea probably isn't all that great.

[wowie]

I like the idea of having one "super-weapon" for everyone that has an ever-changing set of stats. Also, could the duration before the next "mutation" be randomized between 10 and 60? Don't forget to randomize colors! It might be interesting, seeing what weapon variations the game could come up with just by picking from a set of arbitrary values. Also, there should be something of sorts that prevents the primary and secondary firemodes from becoming too similar just because the random variable selector happened to pick a nearly identical set for both. I like the idea of a min-max on some values, like damage, to prevent things from getting to absurdly over or under-powered. We wouldn't want a mutant-pistol that suddenly did 9001 damage per shot, but at the same time we'd equally hate a mutant-pistol that spontaneously did only 1 damage per shot. :P

[Ulukai]

Hmmm... All this sounds very cool, but would it be still playable? Think about it: when the game creates random weapons, you'll never know what it exactly does or how you can use it best untill you had some time to play and experiment with it. That means that you'll be getting your next randomly created weapon even before you know how your weapon works best.

I had in mind to just force 2 (because in Re you can always carry 2 weapons + pistol) of the default weapons per spawn on every player. You die and you get another set of 2 random default weapons. It is similar to the popular xonotic variation, but yet different enough to distinguish ourselves. Maybe TLP is right and there are better variations that we can think of, but having the game create its own set would be chaotic and totally crazy to say at least.

[wowie]

...chaotic and totally crazy...

What if I like chaotic and totally crazy?