Tanks for the memories

[cdxbow]

Tanks have caused us lots of problems, and given they are about 0.1% of the project, I really have to stop wasting time on them, but I am determined to get a decent tank. The first problem, is the game mechanic issues, as a player model they just don't work, but I wan't to try to retain them as an NPC, maybe Quin can tweak the bot code a bit to make them to work a bit better. The next, unresloved problem is I haven't been able to get tracks to export properly from any model, even a couple of commercial 'game ready' models that we bought. Did I ever tell you about the difference between 'game ready' and 'game working'......

Adding to the whole tanks = grief equation has been the look. I have been unhappy with the look, see image below which includes the animated npc tank and 3 map models. I have included the tank player model from MechAssault2 for reference.


When I went looking the only one I found with any appeal is Clu's Tank, from the SF classic Tron. Left is a shot from the film, and on the right is a model by John Boren that I found on the internet.

I have tried to contact the artist via a variety of means but have been unsuccesfuI, but I will continue to try. I have put the clutank model in the zip, if any one wants to play with it, just remember I haven't sorted out licensing yet and as is, it is not suitable as a game model, it is too complex. It is a very nice model.....

....and I got the fusion cutter out and sliced the turret and other stuff off, leaving just the hull, we took delivery of a nice new hypercanon turret, slapped a quick coat of paint on it (the turret texture, very quickly applied) and got this:


Which finally is starting to look OK, and give me something worth working on. (codename - nutank) What do people think?

I have put all the tanks mentioned above in this small zip http://teamxbow.org/cube/models/packs/tankpak04.zip

We would certainly like to have some help, there has to be some tank fans out there who would like to work on sci fi tank(s). I have a very vague and low priority plan to try to animate 'something' on the nutank and use it as the main npc tank. I also want to work on the hovertank as an npc, make it fast but lightly armored. I have a few ideas how I might be able to anmiate this simply and perhaps minimise the physics issues. Nonetheless, i would love to have some help. To encourage you we have 2 commercial models, unfortunately in Max only format, and the licences are Ok to distribute them and derivitives with RE/MekArcade. In fact, about the only restriction is that I don't distribute the originals seperate from game so I can't just put them up for you to download. However if you want to work on the tanks for us then you become developers for RE/MekArcade so you could use them. Please email me if you want to help. The first is the current Bristish MBT, a nice model indeed, with a basic npc style forward motion and moving turret. Properly boned, but the tracks don't export. The other is a scifi tank that is animated in some funny way that only exports only in a vertex animated formats. There is also the dexsoft turret pack and a few other goodies for you to play with.

[hulk]

I think they look nice, but they look a little edgy and could probably use some more polies. Actually i'm not sure because i don't know how well they look in-game.

[fawstoar]

Looks a bit like the TR tanks from Planetside. Not a bad thing. Nice work, looking forward to a release.

[Evropi]

So I guess MekArcade will have non-free data? Will it be a commercial game, too? I'm not sure if the Cube Engine cuts it for that...

[cdxbow]

fawstoar: Thanks for the links to the tanks, very nice. Do you play the game?

Evropi: MekArcade will always be free and open source and we are trying very hard to have only CC-SA licenced content. In the distant future it may be commercialized in some way, the most likely business model is the game and core content remain free, and there is a 'Mek Pilot ProPack' that people can purchase consisting of extra maps and perhaps some new models. I believe this would meet the licensing requiremets of the cube engine. It also gives the mappers a chance to earn some money in the future and move from 'hobby' developers to pros. That can't be a bad thing can it?

[Evropi]

No, I mean the licensing is okay, but the Cube engine has poor particle effects, no dynamic lighting, poor physics (seriously needs to use an external library like Bullet for this), the graphics it offers are generally not the best, it isn't fully hardware accelerated (depends on SDL for some things)... generally, it doesn't quite cut it for modern game development. Worst of all, while it has a truly amazing and excellent map editor, its support for big maps is weak and everything looks somewhat blocky as you cannot create spherical objects in Cube. That's what I meant by 'going commercial'.

As for 'C&C licensed', do you mean Creative Commons or Command & Conquer (proprietary)? I wouldn't think it is legal to ship with assets ripped straight out of a Command & Conquer game.

I think a good commercial model is to establish a community first with a free-of-charge product (doesn't have to be open source, would be nice though) and then create a commercial sequel to it. A multiplayer-only model can work really well with commercial games by the way, especially if they're not based on a lobby system. You should definitely use another game engine if you wish to create a commercial spin-off though. This is the strategy that Roguelike Radio, in its meticulous studies, has found the most effective. It is also very effective if you want to do some crowdfunding via a service such as Kickstarter (which, AFAIK, is not available in Australia) or IndieGoGo. You are selling personality if you do crowdfunding, and a good reputation is key to attracting investment.

I hope I helped. Until then, please please try to make MekArcade a reality, I'm really hyped up for it!

[cdxbow]

This tank thread has seemed to have strayed in to broader territory, and for Evropi sake I will comment on some of the points raised with respect to MekArcade, as we have 'bumped' into many of these already.
-poor particles - a little unkind!, We have a bit of work on explosions next year and may look at particles, next item may have some impact.
-dynamic lights - coming with tesserect (hopefully) 2013
-poor physics - simple is a much kinder word! This is a problem, which becomes more of a problem as the player/npc becomes less human shaped. You should see how crappy a tank looks as NPC or players. I hope Quin can 'do something' to at least make the mek collision detection a bit better in the short term. In the longer term to provide better physics for vehicles would require a bit of heavy duty engine work which is beyond the scope of the project at this stage.
-C&C means C&C-SA, same as RE content.

I am confident the commercial model we propose can meet Cube licensing and be commercially viable, I am not saying it will make money, but it is a viable way to do business.

We are committed to open source development and want to show that openly developed games can match the best commercial offerings. I also don't wish to be tied into proprietary software. I have looked at other engines, and I must confess, at times, I have been sorely tempted.......

Now the real teaser. You mentioned Hidden & Dangerous 2 in another post, and strangely this has been the biggest influence on what we call the 'Tactical Bot Mod' , which is basically where you can control what the bots do. I read an article about Hidden & Dangerous 2, never played it though, and it had great influence on my thinking. Basically for a mek game you would select the best meka for the mission, then position them to cover, charge, defend etc. See the att. text file for the initial thoughts. Adding some player/bot progression/upgrades would make a stronger SP mode. I need some help working this idea up further, in preparation for ticketing in 2013.

Back to tanks & trees

[Evropi]

o_O_o_O

This really is ambitious innit! Wonderful, wonderful stuff, that H&D2 influence (if you ever get to play it... don't miss the chance!). I want to be the first of testers for this!

As for tanks, you can use models from Warzone 2100's 'Art Revolution' project (redoing all of the graphics!) to speed up development. You can look at examples here - looks for the threads titled 'Models by x' or something like that. Here is the Sourceforge project page for the project, which includes a Subversion repository that you can check out.

The nice thing about these are, because Warzone 2100 is based around the idea of building tanks from many different blocks (e.g. different guns, armour, et al). So you can actually drop in a gun or something else and have a custom chassis for MekArcade! The models are in PIE format, which is an obsolete custom format used by WZ2100 but if you contact the artists they should provide you with Blender or Maya files, maybe 3DS Max ones too.
Hope I helped!