New Music

[Bollen]

OK, apologies for not posting yesterday, I got a surprise late night visit which interrupted my work...

This is take 3: Personally I'm not that happy about it. Though it sounds pretty "ethnic" and politically correct, I don't feel like it really works with the race. The first part is what I consider lowlands Amazon: basic percussion and funny sounding flutes, the second part is more highlands Amazon i.e. Andes music.

If you think this is the way to go, then I'll work on it some more (extend it, vary it, etc.).

Here's the video link for context: http://youtu.be/VlRwJXiWkA8

[Bollen]

After much frustration (and irritation) with take 3 I decided to go a completely different direction and I wrote this one. I basically went, instead of ethnic, on Ellingtonian Jungle music from the 30s. Think Humphrey Bogart or the likes... More a jungle "feel" instead of actual jungle (as Auria suggested) and also more cartoon....

Here's the video link: http://youtu.be/8c7SbHWoRoo

[Auria]

Thank you Auria, that's good enough for me! I appreciate when you say "the page should make it clear", I understand the license but what exactly am I supposed to do? Do I just say "yes" here in the forum? Or do I attach a copy of the license to the files when I upload them... Sorry if I'm being a bit thick, but legalities have never been my forte...

oh when you upload a file, suffices to say something like "I release this file under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 license", nothing very complicated

[Auria]

very interesting stuff there. #3 is quite cool from around 0:25 (the first seconds, although probably quite "correct", are too unusual to fit a racing game). Both #3 and #4 have something in common I think though, which is to perhaps be a little too "ambient" and lack the rythm that would be expected in a fast-paced racing game. However I think this can easily be solved : at the price of making it less "realistic", I suggest in some parts of the song to add "modern" percussions. I think especially the latter part of #3 with some (totally non-jungle) percussions added could be quite fitting. #4 is nice too and sounds very appropriate for a movie

[Bollen]

Thank you Auria, that's good enough for me! I appreciate when you say "the page should make it clear", I understand the license but what exactly am I supposed to do? Do I just say "yes" here in the forum? Or do I attach a copy of the license to the files when I upload them... Sorry if I'm being a bit thick, but legalities have never been my forte...

oh when you upload a file, suffices to say something like "I release this file under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 license", nothing very complicated

Cheers! I'll do just that...

[Bollen]

very interesting stuff there. #3 is quite cool from around 0:25 (the first seconds, although probably quite "correct", are too unusual to fit a racing game). Both #3 and #4 have something in common I think though, which is to perhaps be a little too "ambient" and lack the rythm that would be expected in a fast-paced racing game. However I think this can easily be solved : at the price of making it less "realistic", I suggest in some parts of the song to add "modern" percussions. I think especially the latter part of #3 with some (totally non-jungle) percussions added could be quite fitting. #4 is nice too and sounds very appropriate for a movie

Number 3 will not go any faster, but number 4 will... I could try speeding it up. What do you mean modern percussion? And how would that change the pace?

Maybe we can wait on more comments so that we can narrow down which one to work on... Or to simply start a new one with new information...

[Arthur]

Well, the pace can often be changed quite a bit by the drums/perc; just to show what I think Auria might have been alluding to I ahem... took the liberty of mangling your work a bit. Didn't include the whole thing since it's a bit experimental so just layering more rhythms on top sounds a bit weird some places, but for the start it sounds not too shabby, IMHO. Accurate it ain't tho'.

[Auria]

Well, the pace can often be changed quite a bit by the drums/perc; just to show what I think Auria might have been alluding to I ahem... took the liberty of mangling your work a bit. Didn't include the whole thing since it's a bit experimental so just layering more rhythms on top sounds a bit weird some places, but for the start it sounds not too shabby, IMHO. Accurate it ain't tho'.

that's a little rough, but yes that's the kind of percussions that I think can make the sound more kart-like it doesn't need to play all the time, maybe just in the more rythmic parts

[Bollen]

Heh, heh, heh! That's actually quite funny... But I can't say I like it nor would I want to do that to the music. But I think I get the gist of it. So is it definitely number 4 that we want to rework? If the sound/vibe/feel is right, then there are many things that can still be done. For example: speed it up, take the more atmospheric parts out and put more melody, vary the percussion and possibly add a different type of percussion, etc. What I really want to know is are you getting jungle from this? If you are, then we can work on the smaller details... I just want to make sure I'm capturing the "cartoon jungle" idea...

[Auria]

Between #3 after the first 25 seconds, and #4, I'm not sure. Maybe #4 is just slightly a little too cartoonish, but I think you understand where we want to take it

by the way can we have your agreement to release the hacienda song under CC-BY-SA 3.0? (unless you already said it and I missed it)

[Bollen]

No I haven't said it yet. But I'd like to polish it and mix it better first. Do you want it ASAP or can it wait till the end of the project?

[Arthur]

It can probably wait; we're still a while from release. Glad you took my messing around so well - it was mostly tongue-in-cheek.

[Bollen]

Oh of course Arthur, I didn't mind at all and in fact it helped me understand better.

[Arthur]

I'm certain you'll find the right balance between Amazonian style music and music fitting a racing game. It's a difficult mixture, but I really think you have the right stuff (persistence, willing to listen to feedback etc).
(I wouldn't have a chance of making something like this.)

[Bollen]

Heh, heh, heh! Thanks!

[Bollen]

OK, so here we have take 5 (based on take 4). It's much faster, I took the percussion intro out and I added an extra section at the end. I added a drum kit in some sections (clarinet section and end section) per request. I also varied the percussion throughout i.e. every section now has its own combination.

Video link is here: http://youtu.be/Sh9stLZV6HA

[Binky]

Good
Might be getting a little too orchestral though?

[Bollen]

Too orchestral? What do you mean? It's exactly the same orchestration as before and besides the clarinet and the drum kit, it's also the same instruments as the new Hacienda.

Looking at it today I realize that the levels are all wrong, but remember that this is a draft. I will remix it when we find something we like.

Personally, if I may express my very biased opinion (heh, heh, heh!), this is my favorite one so far. I played it in-game around 7 times last night in order to get a video where I managed to finish the race at the same time as the music and if I may say... It just feels perfect! The tension mounting as you try to over take the other karts, the different moods on the different laps, how it works in conjunction with the sound effects, etc. Several times I finished the race before the music and the final movement seemed to achieve the perfect climax. In other occasions the race was too long so I reached the loop, but it still worked when the other piece came in at the finish line. It's quite different from the music we are all used to in STK i.e. background and inoffensive, but perhaps it's worth rethinking how the music should contribute to the mood/excitement/adrenaline of the race... Anyway, that's my two cents. But, since I'm writing the music looking at the game all the time, it is perhaps advisable that you test it within the game. And that way perhaps you'll understand what I'm trying to do....

PS: my statement above in no way means that you can't trash it again... Bring it on! I'm ready for another round, heh, heh, heh!

[Arthur]

I like it. Quite different from what we already have, as you said, since this piece has many frequent changes and musical stings and thus grabs more attention. But I think that may be a good thing for this track, since it adds a bit of drama to a jungle that doesn't sport much drama of its own. It kinda makes it a bit more exciting.
Maybe a bit more jazzy than I'd imagine jungle music would be, but as said, realism isn't what we're aiming for anyway.

As you said, some of the sound levels are a bit off. But I'm sure that'll be sorted quickly enough, if Auria is happy with the music.

[Binky]

Too orchestral? What do you mean? It's exactly the same orchestration as before and besides the clarinet and the drum kit...
Probably the combination of trumpet(?) and clarinet made me think that.
But I'm nitpicking - Its still a good composition

[Bollen]

Thank you Arthur and Binky, yes let's hope Auria does approve. I'd really like to move on now... In case you were wondering, this style of music, which was around in late 20s early 30s, was often referred to and advertised as "jungle music". So that's why I thought it would perhaps be more appropriate than my other attempts. It's closer to swing, stylistically speaking, than jazz. But because it's not actually "swinging" it's often called a jungle groove or jungle feel...

Thought you might find that interesting... Now back to work I must!

[Auria]

It sounds quite good if a more final mix can be produced this would be a good fit I think. Possibly the percussions can be a little louder, and perhaps add a little "jungle drum" here and there. But I think this is very close and what's left is only the fine tuning

[Bollen]

Sweet!!! That makes me very happy!!! That was one of the hardest commissions I've ever worked on.... Just one more thing, what do you mean jungle drum? Aside from the drum kit they are jungleish...

What would you like me to work on next?

[Auria]

hmm hard to describe. maybe a little like this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7HL5wYqAbU though obviously this video is not a jungle context

[Auria]

Wow, Thaiko-Drums!

@Auria: Do you mean something like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZNxtGt4QHY

Listen at the drums at the first seconds.
This could be played well by Taiko-Drums. Not made for it ;-) but would sound good.

yes this is probably more jungle-sounding ^^