Survival game mode suggestion

[Rabidbutton]

I don't know if this has been suggested before, but I think it would be great if Red eclipse had a survival game mode using grunts from the campaign as the enemy's,
its pretty straight forward really, infinite waves of enemy's attack and as each wave ends the enemy grows stronger and multiply's and you must survive as many waves as you can to set a high score!

[Fallen]

afaik there's smth like that in SVN version, but I'm not sure. If it's in current SVN then it means that for 99% it will be included in 1.3.

[Rabidbutton]

I checked it out and I don't think they have added anything like that just yet, I hope they do though it would be really cool

[riidom]

A variation of that idea:

There is a fixed number of grunts for each map, depending on size or so.
Each time a grunt gets fragged, a new one respawns with 10% more health and damage than the one that just got killed.
I'm not sure how the grunt generation can be displayed, but maybe it doesnt need to be displayed at all. Some possibilities:
-a number above the grunts head
-watch it indirectly by displaying statistics when hitting tab, like "30 grunts total; 16x Gen1; 6x Gen2; 2x Gen3; 4x Gen6; 1x Gen9; 1x Gen 13"
-after killing a grunt, respective getting killed by a grunt, you see a death message that tells the generation of the grunt

This could be an option for the onslaught modificator, called "evolving grunts" or so. Playing this in combination with survival modificator, it should get pretty close to a survival game mode. Also, there could be a "co-op" option for onslaught modificator, that puts all players in one team.

[MysteriousKieran]

I see three problems with this,

First, no models for the zombies, invaders, monsters or whatever you want to call them

Second, Survival type game modes don't work very well without a class based system (well class abilities in particular).
Left 4 Dead and this new Team Fortress 2 mode Man vs Machine.

And third, there have to be maps made specifically for it with objectives.

So even if it were included in release I doubt many people would actually play it. Wouldn't it be better to release it as a type of expansion when it was actually finished instead
to give a better impression and attract new players later on.

[riidom]

Thanks for pointing me to the iqm importer first, it spits out errors in 2.63 sadly, but good to know smth is developed

To topic:
1. There is a grunt model. One must not love it, and it might get updated, but it would do the job, like it has done in past when playing onslaught.
2. I dont see why there need to be classes, can you elaborate on that?
3. There are no specific maps needed, you can play onslaught on every map (some might be better suited than others, but this is same for every gamemode/mutator).

[MysteriousKieran]

Too be succinct I can elaborate on all 3 by saying it would just be too boring. Endless waves of the same model coming at you over and over with no real rhyme or reason isn't going to capture the interest of many for more than a few minutes. It wouldn't garner the attention of new players no discourage the existing ones from playing instigib. The best way would be to have it be L4D style where one team has a certain number of 'invader boss players' who can control the waves to some degree. There's a reason l4d is still so damned popular and that's one of the main reasons.

OT but since we're on the subject, I'm actually working on a total remodel of the rifle with new sounds atm just so I can use it in instagib. When finished I'll definitely upload for any who are interested. Hey, if ya can't beat em join em right.

And no problem on the importer\exporter. Have you tried it with 2.62? I'm fairly sure the script has not been updated for 2.63 yet.

[riidom]

About the model - of course, various grunt types would look better, but that is not exactly necessary for the game mode. One of my first suggestions about graphic improvements was to introduce new player models, but this seem to have a pretty low priority in the community, so I stopped working on that before I do things nobody wants. I dare to say, that the demand for various grunt models is comparable low - though it would ofc fit in greatly to indicate the generation of the grunt. We will see what happens in that area.

[...] with no real rhyme or reason isn't going to capture the interest of many for more than a few minutes.

I'm not so sure about that. I mean, look what deathmatch is. Your description fits perfectly on it. People love to play it over and over, including myself.
The thing with these "fight endless waves" gamemodes is, that you cant win them, just avoid to loose for as long as possible. This doesnt have to be like that ofc. There could be a maxed out grunt, if it gets killed, no new spawns, so the players could win once the map is emptied, for example. Alternatively, it might be interesting to see how powerful the grunts can be made by the players. Or there is a certain low-% chance that not a new grunt of generation x+1 will spawn, but instead x+1 new grunts of gen 1.
I could spit out suggestions like that quite a while longer, but the point is, it dont need to boring.

Oh and please, if you refer to game modes of other games, explain them briefly, since I played L4D only 2 times at a friends home, and have by far not seen everything the game has to offer.

[Rabidbutton]

I think one of the reasons this game mode would work so well is that say for instance you were making a map for it, the grunts have settings that would allow for total customization of every wave, for example, they could have guns, no guns, they could be tough, weak, fast, slow, huge, tiny, that sort of thing, all they would need is an extra setting that tells them which wave to spawn on, at least I think that's how it would work? and then when everyone has defeated the last wave it could loop back around again and increase the enemy's health. I think there are many different ways this game mode can be done, but like riidom says "it doesn't need to be boring"

[MysteriousKieran]

I think one of the reasons this game mode would work so well is that say for instance you were making a map for it, the grunts have settings that would allow for total customization of every wave, for example, they could have guns, no guns, they could be tough, weak, fast, slow, huge, tiny, that sort of thing, all they would need is an extra setting that tells them which wave to spawn on, at least I think that's how it would work? and then when everyone has defeated the last wave it could loop back around again and increase the enemy's health. I think there are many different ways this game mode can be done, but like riidom says "it doesn't need to be boring"

I do get what you're saying but I still think such a mode would be much better with it's own maps =P Why not create a map to go along with it before release?

[Rabidbutton]

Yeah it does need its own maps for the way I'm suggesting it to be done, do you mean make the maps as a shell for if they do decide to create this mode?

[MysteriousKieran]

Well you're idea of using the one of the best parts about red eclipse (it's extensive variable system) for the survival\invasion game mode's
enemies and perhaps bosses is pretty damn good imo. Something like that could also be applied to player boss grunt\zombies\monsters or whatever you want to call em.

And yes, in response to your question; a 'shell' is a good way of putting it. A game mode like this would be far more enjoyable with it's own maps that contain some basic cubescript objectives.

[Rabidbutton]

Here is an idea, what if there were a control point that appears in various positions on the map, and when it is captured someone respawn's and then it moves to a new location...

[Rabidbutton]

This topic seems to be getting pretty dusty, another idea for this game mode is to have two teams both fighting the waves of enemy's, it is a fairly simple idea and here is how it could work: each team receives a certain amount of points from killing grunts and once a team has been fully defeated the game finishes and the resulting scores are shown, maybe the maps could be mirrored also so that each team has their own fighting space allowing for a fair challenge?...