Thoughts on Bomber Ball

[orbitaldecay]

Hello all,

I've recently started running the Wazu bomber ball server again and it seems to be generating some interest. I wanted to open a thread to hear thoughts and suggestions from the community on the bomber ball game mode. It would be super cool to see some bomber ball teams form for some competitive play, so hit me up if you're interested in that too

If anyone else digs the particular flavor of bomber ball that we've come to call "hard ball", this is the configuration that is in use on the [Wazu] 24/7 Hard Ball server (basically instagib bomber ball with a few tweaks). This particular configuration is best with 6 - 8 players IMO (teams of 3 or 4).

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

// 24/7 Hard Ball Server Config
// orbitaldecay@gmail.com
// 12-18-2011 (Updated 04/13/2012 for RE 1.2)

// These are our favorite bomber ball settings, which we've called "hard ball".
// Basically, its instagib basket bomber-ball with a couple subtle var tweaks to
// speed up the game.

// #### General Server Configuration ####
sv_serverclients        8
sv_serverdesc           "[Wazu] 24/7 Hard Ball"
sv_servermotd           "Join us on timeofeve.jp.pn #wazuclan"
sv_defaultmap           "dropzone"
sv_allowmaps            "dropzone futuresport dutility"
sv_bombermaps           "dropzone futuresport dutility"
sv_spawnrotate          0         // Players always spawn in the same spot
sv_maprotate            1         // Maps go in sequence
sv_botlimit             1         // Keep one bot or ball won't spawn properly
sv_timelimit            15        // 15 minute rounds
sv_intermlimit          15000     // Interm lasts 15 seconds
sv_votelimit            0         // No voting phase after matches
sv_modelockfilter       64        // Only available gamemode is bomber ball
sv_varslock             2         // Admin only can change vars
sv_modelock             2         // Only admin can vote to change the mode
sv_defaultmode          6         // Game mode is bomber ball
sv_defaultmuts          16388     // Team | Basket | Instagib
sv_rotatemode           0         // Never rotate mode
sv_rotatemuts           16777216  // Never rotate mutators

// #### Hard Ball Settings ####
// After a great deal of experimentation, these are the settings that we've
// favored the most.  Slightly faster ball with less elasticity.  Lockon delay
// is reduced for faster passing.  Everyone respawns after scoring.

sv_bomberresetdelay     7500      // Only wait 7.5 seconds if ball is dropped
sv_bomberlimit          0         // Finish when score reaches this
sv_bomberreset          2         // 0 = off, 1 = kill winners, 2 = kill everyone
sv_bomberspeed          300       // Speed at which the ball travels when thrown
sv_bomberweight         150       // How fast the ball falls
sv_bomberelasticity     0.25      // How bouncy is the ball
sv_bomberlockondelay    150       // How long before lockon for passing

// Change the team names for fun :)

sv_teamalphaname        "Home"
sv_teamomeganame        "Visitors"

// #### Rifle Settings ####
// Turn off zoom lock (already off by default in 1.2) and make rifles rainbow
// colored.

sv_zoomlock             0
sv_riflepartcol1        -3
sv_rifleexplcol1        -3
sv_riflepartcol2        -3
sv_rifleexplcol2        -3


[ZeroKnight]

Nice nice, can't wait to play a few rounds on it tonight. :D I can chat about those server ideas I mentioned as well. Specifically the Tactics one :D

[Gingerbear]

Fucking yes.

[inpersona64]

IBB (Instagib Bomber Ball) is incredibly addicting and puts a sort of 'sport' aspect towards Red Eclipse. Funny because when one thinks about it, it'd seem kind of hard to compare titles like Call of Duty or Halo to games like FIFA Soccer or NBA Live, but you change a couple variables in this game and you can truly turn a First Person Shooter into a sports game.

[wowie]

I find that team based game modes (in any game!) never work half the time because there is no way you can ever get a bunch of randoms to use teamwork! I like the idea of a competitive league with organized teams, even though there's no way I'll ever be able to play it in the foreseeable future, because my schedule is way too erratic, along with my 'net connection quality.

Who knew a var tweak would completely change the way the mode is played.
----------------------------------------------------------------
(posting from mobile device, will merge posts later)
The fast ball+non elastic+fast pass variables make the ball less like a rubber toy and more like the speeding metal meteor that it should be. Seriously, I wouldn't mind if those were made the default bomb variables for the entire bomber ball game mode (minus the killing everyone on score, that's something I'm not a big fan of).

Basket bomber ball: Combining jump shots and head shots since 2011!

[wowie]

delete this post somebody it has no content.

[inpersona64]

(minus the killing everyone on score, that's something I'm not a big fan of).

Basket bomber ball: Combining jump shots and head shots since 2011!

The server was made that way so that players would reset on the map, rather than be able to spawntrap the opponents and keep scoring, because most likely if your team grabs the ball in bomber ball and scores, they'll probably be closer to the goal and grab the ball again (and score again, and the cycle continues). So this var tweak makes it so that everyone has an even and fair chance of scoring the ball. Kind of like soccer (futbol for your euros :P), or hockey. I wish everyone didn't have to blow up though lol. It'd be nice if it could be like in duel/survivor, where after you score, you'll still be alive and everyone just resets to their spawns. But at the same time, I think the idea of everyone exploding simultaneously kind of follows the theme of the gametype, so perhaps this: if a team scores, the opposite team explodes just an idea.

[wowie]

If the entire enemy team is on your side of the map then if you are decent at dodging you can grab the ball and lob it at their unprotected goal since the offense-heavy team also has little defense... or at least that's the way I see it. If both teams are at simalar levels of skill (e.g. a pair of high-rank tournament teams) then massive spawncamping tends to become hard, if not impossible. But, again, that's just me and my (warped?) point of view.

[orbitaldecay]

The fast ball+non elastic+fast pass variables make the ball less like a rubber toy and more like the speeding metal meteor that it should be. Seriously, I wouldn't mind if those were made the default bomb variables for the entire bomber ball game mode

I'm not sure how well these settings work on regular bomber ball (non-instagib). Instagib makes it a lot easier to defend. One skilled person can camp the goal and pick off pretty much any aggressor with relative ease. Basket + faster ball + faster passing = easier to score. IMO, it balances out.

Using these settings without instagib, the accelerated pace might make it hard to stop the team who has the ball. This might turn the game into a race to ball spawn. But who knows? I haven't really tested this much. Point being, its a pretty thin line between an environment that's conducive toward team-oriented strategy and total mayhem.

[qreeves]

Okay, so I played for about an hour, and I must say I did end up liking it. There's a big curve between a good team and a bad team, which I think is probably unavoidable in a pub game. I suppose we should consider making some of these settings the default. Is non-insta even any good for this mode? I'm tempted to make it implied for bomber-ball, but it'd suck to remove the ability to have a non-insta game. The basket mutator seems to speed things up, but if you have a sucky team it means you end up with scores like 27 vs -2. I don't plan on removing the mode, but it would be nice to come up with some way to fix the problems, if possible.

[Fallen]

I think that auto teambalance option will make it good. There should be ofc option to disable that for admins, admins and authers, and ofc at all.

[Ulukai]

Auto balance is a good idea, but I wouldn't disable the choice of a non-insta BB game. However, you can always have insta checked by default when you choose bomberball, but the player should remain able to uncheck this if wanted. Freedom of choice is the way to go.

Btw, why only 8 playerslots and not 16 on your server?

[inpersona64]

In pub games (like the one i played today with quin) most times neither team will be equally be matched with the other in skill. But that's the reason I'm behind the idea of competitive gameplay in this gamemode; because we can actually get some evenly matched teams and have a quality game of IBB.

Quin mentioned that the HardBall server didn't have enough maps. And so if anyone was thinking about adding some maps that catered more towards Instagib Basket Bomber Ball, please do so. I think that a good IBB map would be similar to either Dropzone where you have to get up to the top of a hill to get the ball, or Futuresport where the ball is in the middle and you can snipe to the other side BUT there are obstacles on the map that make it a bit of a challenge. So a well balanced IBB map would most likely consist of obstacles to prevent spawn sniping while making it a challenge to get to the ball spawn without dying.

Overall, I hope this gametype+mutator combination lasts, i really like it! and it really puts some objective to Instagib rather than just blasting purple plasma at peoples heads lol

[orbitaldecay]

Is non-insta even any good for this mode?

I've definitely played some non-insta games of bomber ball that I enjoyed, but IBB has a distinctive flavor to it. I'd say that IBB is "harder", which I think enforces cooperation in a sense:

1. You must pass the ball. You simply won't live long enough to drive it to the goal by yourself.
2. Most of the time, someone on your team must play goal keeper (preferably exactly 1 person), or the opposing team will rack up huge amounts of points.

I've never seen that sort of team-work (voluntarily or otherwise) in a non-insta bomber ball game. Medieval bomber ball has always seemed to play out pretty nicely, and a few people prefer it over IBB, though I think MBB is better without basket.

The basket mutator seems to speed things up, but if you have a sucky team it means you end up with scores like 27 vs -2.

In my experience, if both teams have a competent goal keeper and everyone passes the ball, then things don't get too rediculous. Yeah, for a while we played with IBB without the basket mutator, but it was too difficult to score. Everytime you get close to the goal, you get creamed. On the other hand, non-insta games don't really work with the basket mutator IMO, because its extremely easy to score.

There is definitely a learning curve. I think the surprising part for people seeing it for the first time is the extent to which its necessary to work as a team. I'm not the best shot, but I've played on teams with other mediocre players and trounced teams with strong players who didn't know how to work together. I guess that's what I really like - you can suck at RE and still be good at IBB

[qreeves]

Just watched inpersona's video of us playing last night. I look like I'm just standing there (I actually got "massacre" and dominated each player on the other team at least once!). There is definitely a lot of team work required, I was trying to defend the goal and fend off anyone trying to push the ball over the top, guess we didn't do so well.

[orbitaldecay]

Just watched inpersona's video of us playing last night. I look like I'm just standing there (I actually got "massacre" and dominated each player on the other team at least once!).

I've often heard people complaining that the person watching the goal is "camping". I think it makes sense after you've played a few games

There is definitely a lot of team work required, I was trying to defend the goal and fend off anyone trying to push the ball over the top, guess we didn't do so well.

That's my favorite position, especially on duality... trying to pop off anyone who comes over the top is a ball

[Ulukai]

Yesterday we played a couple of expert instagib BB games and it was very enjoyable. The expert mutator makes it extra hard, especially if someone is close to your goal and makes a run for it... You better have your aim right then

[Dratz-_C]

I've been having fun with this work in progress over the past few days. Lately it has gotten easier to shoot from far off, and quicker to pass, as you have said. Sometimes I feel like I have a higher purpose than killing or staying alive (getting to the ball, passing, shooting, defending). It is so fun because there is so much stuff to do.
Cheers

[inpersona64]

I think it's already been established that a great game of IBB will appear on one of two maps: Dropzone or Futuresport. This is because these maps are both catered towards towards IBB; they have obstacles that kind of prevent shooting directly into the goal, they have nice wide open areas for passing and defending, and they both are well sized for anything between a 2v2 up to a 6v6.

I've taken the liberty of making a nice little gameplay for Offense on Futuresport for some of you to look at. I did this because it might be hard to get a team together, let alone work together and this map is one of the best maps to develop teamwork. There's also some extra stuff (regarding lines of sight and player positioning) that would help some people better understand the players they are playing against. I uploaded it a few days ago and wasn't sure if I should make it public or not because I didn't plan it. But if anyone is interested, here's the link: http://youtu.be/ryPlogUGg1Q

[ZeroKnight]

I was trying to defend the goal and fend off anyone trying to push the ball over the top, guess we didn't do so well.

All your bloody interceptions started to get on my nerves :P So I shot you in the face.

[orbitaldecay]

... so I shot you in the face.

I wish I could end more sentences that way.

[wowie]

... so I shot you in the face.

I wish I could end more sentences that way.

[offtopic]I wish I could make awesome quotes sound even more awesome like that.[\offtopic]