GameType: Deathball Clone [Questions]

[Marenz]

Hey Guys,

I want to write a clone of a Mod/Gametype of an older game and was wondering about a few things.
What I found out so far is that there is no scripting language as you know it from many other FPS
in which game logic is written, instead you have to code it in c++ and compile yourself a binary.
There seems to be a way to have mods only server side.. at least it seemed like that upon reading
about that Zombie mod.

How powerful can server side gametypes be?
If my gametype will require client side changes as well I will have to distribute the modified binary. Is that correct?
Am I allowed to use the existing media files (models, sounds, textures, maps) for this mod? Even when I redistribute it
with the modified binary that includes my mod? Might it even be better to have _only_ my mod in the modified binary?
Should the binary be installed additionally to an existing RE install in the same directory?
Can you link me any ressources in how to start one an own gametype?


--Marenz

[orbitaldecay]

You are pretty limited in what you can do server side. The engine is designed around a very client-centric model. That being said, if you have a good idea, why don't you propose it for inclusion into the game?

[Marenz]

Oh, I certainly will, but only once I got something working..

[qreeves]

How powerful can server side gametypes be?

You are limited to things that can be controlled by the server; this includes, adding/removing bots or enemy AI, health, spawning, items, etc. It is quite limited as most logic is client-side.

If my gametype will require client side changes as well I will have to distribute the modified binary. Is that correct?

Yep, that's correct.

Am I allowed to use the existing media files (models, sounds, textures, maps) for this mod? Even when I redistribute it with the modified binary that includes my mod?

You most certainly can, every single bit of Red Eclipse is liberally licensed (with the exception of the name and logos [which is currently under consideration for opening up]). Check individual licenses to see what extent you can modify/re-use. The file "license.txt" should clarify this a bit more for you. What you can't do is claim you created it, and we do appreciate if you give a shout-out to help promote this fantastic package we provide to you for free

Might it even be better to have _only_ my mod in the modified binary?

You can do that if you like, but you are by no means required to. So long as you don't misrepresent it as the original product, I have no problem with you redistributing a mod. If you do plan on creating a mod, I do ask you check with me before listing anything on our master server, as generally this is for the vanilla game only unless otherwise given permission.

Should the binary be installed additionally to an existing RE install in the same directory?

Probably, it makes things a lot easier (you don't have to duplicate all the data). I suggest you make a subdirectory in the Red Eclipse directory (eg. "myfunmod", and place any files required by your mod in there - you can then addpackagedir("myfunmod") to source files from there.

Can you link me any ressources in how to start one an own gametype?

Not really, there isn't much of this to begin with for the Cube Engine (which is the base technology we use). I'm creating a game here, not a game creation platform, we provide everything for free and can't really provide in-depth technical support to everyone who comes along. That being said, I do have a habit of helping those who help us, so if you contribute to the community in a useful way, I'm more inclined to get more involved with your own efforts.

That being said, if you have a good idea, why don't you propose it for inclusion into the game?

Oh, I certainly will, but only once I got something working..

Well, I am the Lead Developer, so at the very least if you give me more information I can point you in the right direction (or even help you).

[Marenz]

Am I allowed to use the existing media files (models, sounds, textures, maps) for this mod? Even when I redistribute it with the modified binary that includes my mod?

You most certainly can, every single bit of Red Eclipse is liberally licensed (with the exception of the name and logos [which is currently under consideration for opening up]). Check individual licenses to see what extent you can modify/re-use. The file "license.txt" should clarify this a bit more for you. What you can't do is claim you created it, and we do appreciate if you give a shout-out to help promote this fantastic package we provide to you for free

Oh yes, I'll do that for sure! The more I learn about the whole thing the more I like it.. just the modding system is a little .. limited

Might it even be better to have _only_ my mod in the modified binary?

You can do that if you like, but you are by no means required to. So long as you don't misrepresent it as the original product, I have no problem with you redistributing a mod. If you do plan on creating a mod, I do ask you check with me before listing anything on our master server, as generally this is for the vanilla game only unless otherwise given permission.

Alright, I'll definitely check with you before making any use of the master server

Should the binary be installed additionally to an existing RE install in the same directory?

Probably, it makes things a lot easier (you don't have to duplicate all the data). I suggest you make a subdirectory in the Red Eclipse directory (eg. "myfunmod", and place any files required by your mod in there - you can then addpackagedir("myfunmod") to source files from there.

That sounds like a good suggestion. Maybe the best way to would even be to offer both ways.. like a small package to install it additionally to RE and a stand-alone package.

Can you link me any ressources in how to start one an own gametype?

Not really, there isn't much of this to begin with for the Cube Engine (which is the base technology we use). I'm creating a game here, not a game creation platform, we provide everything for free and can't really provide in-depth technical support to everyone who comes along. That being said, I do have a habit of helping those who help us, so if you contribute to the community in a useful way, I'm more inclined to get more involved with your own efforts.

Okay, no problem, I can just dive into the code and see where I'll end up
I was looking for informations myself earlier and didn't find any. Thus the question.
It was by no means meant to sound in any way demanding.. just an innocent information query.

That being said, if you have a good idea, why don't you propose it for inclusion into the game?

Oh, I certainly will, but only once I got something working..

Well, I am the Lead Developer, so at the very least if you give me more information I can point you in the right direction (or even help you).

I plan to port an old mod from ut2004 called deathball. They have a website at http://deathball.net .
It is kinda similar to Bombing Ball and it indeed was born from the ut2004 equivalent "Bombing Run".
It plays more like soccer though. The shooting of the ball is the main thing you do, killing others is
only possible when they own the ball or are inside the keepers area.

You can see an in-game recording of it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSm97YUZgSI

I want to start this mod by first making a copy & rename of Bomber Ball and then slowly turn it into Deathball.

--Marenz

[qreeves]

Oh yes, I'll do that for sure! The more I learn about the whole thing the more I like it.. just the modding system is a little .. limited

When you think about it, it's actually the opposite of limited. You have the *entire* source code at your disposal, and you can modify any part of it, whereas with a toolkit, you are limited to the API provided by the developers :P

I plan to port an old mod from ut2004 called deathball. They have a website at http://deathball.net/ - It is kinda similar to Bombing Ball and it indeed was born from the ut2004 equivalent "Bombing Run". It plays more like soccer though. The shooting of the ball is the main thing you do, killing others is only possible when they own the ball or are inside the keepers area.

I am actually familiar with the mod, I used to play it quite extensively myself I created bomber-ball because I tried to get back onto the scene but the few people left are all European or American and my Australian ping makes it unplayable (they all got shitty with my lag and would keep booting me). Should be quite easy to do what you're after, I just don't make a habit of directly cloning other people's ideas (Red Eclipse has its own spin on almost everything); I decided to keep our gameplay action-based because you rarely find people who can cooperate for that type of game in pubs. That being said, some people here in the community have found medieval bomber-ball to be a good combination, because you actually have to get close to the people you're attacking, but I'm certainly interested in seeing what you come up with!

[inpersona64]

I decided to keep our gameplay action-based because you rarely find people who can cooperate for that type of game in pubs. That being said, some people here in the community have found medieval bomber-ball to be a good combination, because you actually have to get close to the people you're attacking, but I'm certainly interested in seeing what you come up with!

:D
gotta get Baba to finish that bomber-ball map..

[Wazubaba]

Well, the bomber ball map is pretty much done, just needs some shinies to be added lol. Also, there is a coding language called cubescript. There is a help thing here : http://www.sandboxgamemaker.com/wiki/index.php?title=Cubescript&redirect=no#containers
Some of the stuff there works, but I'm not sure how much. Thanks go to Zero Knight for showing it to me.

In terms of modding, even without the source code there are lots of things you can do actually; new maps, new textures, new models, model and texture replacers, new GUI's, special functions, lots of cool stuff. Unfortunately, help on this is practically nonexistent, so your best bet is to ask people here.

[Marenz]

In case anyone is curious what happened so far, here is my progress:

I copied the bomber ball mod and started modifying it, striping out stuff that deathball doesn't need and changing the default values of the variables.
The bomb no longer explodes and no longer is called "bomb" but "ball".

I added a new entity called boxtrigger for which you can define the width/height/breadth of the bounding box (which is also rendered in the edit mode).
You can then link this boxtrigger to an affinity (the goal from bomber ball) which will then use that boundingbox.

The actually collision detection is not done yet. I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to freaking use the existing collision functions.
Recently it dawned me that a gameent is NOT castable into a physent which is why all my tries had quite .. strange results

Having gained that new knowledge, I will now give the existing collision functions an other shot. If that fails as well, I'll just implement my own.
It's not that difficult to find out whether a ball is within an oriented bounding box or not.

I also tried to implement collision for a normal player with that boxtrigger, but happily casting gameents to physents didn't help much here. I just wonder why it didn't crash though.

I also created the first "Deathball" Map which I use for testing and which will probably be the first map being played (it is quite simple).

So far so good.

--Marenz

[LuckyStrike-Rx]

A box Trigger would really be useful for all gamemode. Specially for the campaign one.

[orbitaldecay]

Cool Marenz. Keep us posted on your project. I'm interested in seeing it when it is ready

[Marenz]

So, after some talking, I knew I had to implement my own collision detection for my ball in a box, at least if I want the box being able to be rotated.
So I did just that today. After some reading on analyses and layers, I was able to write a small and simple algorithm for that.
Due to some strange bug I couldn't test the function, gotta look at that tomorrow. (The distance was always waaaay off.. dunno what happenend, it worked yesterday)

For anyone who cares, you can look at my changes at

git://supraverse.net/icare.git


--Marenz

[Marenz]

Soooo, Progress!

The boxtrigger works. You can now specify a boxtrigger entity, do the same stuff with it as with a normal trigger, but instead of a radius it has width/height/breadth/pitch/yaw which all defines a boundingbox around the trigger that will be used for collision. Additionally it can be linked to an affinity (at least in the new gametype mode) which will then use its boundingbox as its own.

Tell me if you are interested in the patches for upstream.


--Marenz

[Ulukai]

Deathball seems like a fun gametype! It reminds me a very little bit of Deathrow (xbox game). I would love to see it in action within Red Eclipse.

[Marenz]

Update: My Designer just sent me the first experiments for the "hammer" (the ball gun/people booster)

In other things, I am now starting to implement all the logic.. my TODO looks like this:


FIRST TODO:
test whether the server gets all the entities from the client

TODO
o walking into the goal should score as well
o shooting into the goal only resets the ball, but doesn't score
o quad jump
o only slow down a player with a ball when he lands
o define a keeper area somehow
o make a keeper jump higher, dodge, and be faster, also invincible
o Remove weapons
o goal posts in mini radar
o display both radars
o prevent players from walking into their own goal
o make the ball bounce off someone if the speed is high
o make everyone respawn after a score
o add new weapon, hammer weapon, use shotgun model till something better pops up
o volley
o boost
o spin
o banana
o sucker

--Marenz

[Marenz]

Update: Now it is possible to walk into the goal with the ball and have it registered as goal

[FlyinHigh]

You wouldn't by any chance want to help develop the game would you? You seem talented!

[Marenz]

Well, I want to work mainly on the db clone, but I contribute things back to the main game if I can.
But they don't always have such a big interest in contributions, e.g. the boxtrigger found little interest
with eihrul.

[Marenz]

Update:

I just got the ball gun, the so called "Hammer" working. When you are in possession of the ball, you can charge and shoot it away.
It's pretty funny to watch the bots shoot each other with the Ball Oo

Next is:

o implement overcharge
o implement that you can shot at the ball when you don't own it
o some better sound effects and a model for the hammer (right now I still use the shotgun model and sounds)
o (teach the bots how to use it)

[orbitaldecay]

Neat I'm looking forward to seeing this once its functional.

[Marenz]

If you wanna have a look, I provide a pre-compiled binary for windows users here:

http://supraverse.net/stuff/db.tar.gz

Just extract it into the redeclipse folder. Note that you need the svn version of the redeclipse data which you can get by downloading the snapshot that I provide at

http://supraverse.net/stuff/redeclipse-snapshot.tar.gz

updated every day at 04:00 AM GMT+1

When you start it, try the map scses. I still have to manage to make it the default and stuff. (If anyone feels like doing that for me, be my guest, I would appreciate it)
Oh and, don't try online play. I am not authorized to use this modification with the master server. Use offline mode or your own/friends server without the master server.

For people not used to redeclipse: You can remove the bots by pressing DELETE several times, and you can add them back by pressing INSERT.
The bots are pretty stupid (with the hammer), so you probably wanna remove them.

--Marenz

[orbitaldecay]

If you wanna have a look, I provide a pre-compiled binary for windows users here:

http://supraverse.net/stuff/db.tar.gz

Just extract it into the redeclipse folder. Note that you need the svn version of the redeclipse data which you can get by downloading the snapshot that I provide at

http://supraverse.net/stuff/redeclipse-snapshot.tar.gz

updated every day at 04:00 AM GMT+1

When you start it, try the map scses. I still have to manage to make it the default and stuff. (If anyone feels like doing that for me, be my guest, I would appreciate it)
Oh and, don't try online play. I am not authorized to use this modification with the master server. Use offline mode or your own/friends server without the master server.

For people not used to redeclipse: You can remove the bots by pressing DELETE several times, and you can add them back by pressing INSERT.
The bots are pretty stupid (with the hammer), so you probably wanna remove them.

--Marenz

Cool, I'll be checking this out when I get a chance. As far as the master server goes, why not remove references to the master server from the mod? Or change the protocol number to make it incompatible with vanilla RE?

[greaserpirate]

For some reason I can't open the link to the source code. Firefox gives me an error saying "Firefox doesn't know how to open this address, because the protocol (git) isn't associated with any program."

Oh, and by the way, the Hammer you made is a sweet-looking gun. Maybe it should be the new rocket, and the old rocket model can be the "Hammer".

[arand]

For some reason I can't open the link to the source code. Firefox gives me an error saying "Firefox doesn't know how to open this address, because the protocol (git) isn't associated with any program." (...)

You need a git client for it, gitextensions is one option, I guess there's tortoisegit if you're into that...

[Marenz]

Uh.. I didn't make the model for the Hammer.. it's just the shotgun model.. though it actually fits pretty good and as LuckyStrike is working on another shotgun model anyway, I might keep it.. but I don't know yet.. I have also a designer who works sporadically on a model for the Hammer.. let's see.

Yes, I can simply change the protocol number, right. I didn't look into that at all yet, because so far it was only me and a few friends who could test it

In any case, it would only work with the svn server that is running, anyway. But I'll change the ports for the next update.

--Marenz