You thoughts on the idea to add an educational challenge

[Knitter]

Hi,

I was asked if it was possible to add a new feature/challenge to STK, in short, small mathematical and/or spelling challenges for kids at young ages to use the game as a way to learn. I don't know if the idea has ever been presented before or how hard/easy would be to do it and I have absolutely no knowledge of the code base to even be able to see if it's possible to do. Therefor I would like you input in the subject.

My girlfriend was watching me playing the game as I was explaining how the game worked and, since it's an area were she has some experience, asked me if it was possible to change the way we got the powerups to be based on small challenges. For example, suppose there are never boxes in the tracks, while driving a challenge can be presented to the player, like "3 + 4 + 5 + 6 = ?" and then the player would have to get the correct numbers to complete the sum, in this case the player would need to grab the numbers "1" and "8", the first player to get the numbers would get a random bonus like he would from a normal gift box.

Similar to math problems, some spelling/wording problems could be shown to the player, like letters to complete a partially shown word or a sentence.

So, would this be doable? I'm not asking if you want to do it, I know you all have more things to think about and a game to build , but since you know the project better than me, is there any way to achieve this?

[hiker]

I was asked if it was possible to add a new feature/challenge to STK, in short, small mathematical and/or spelling challenges for kids at young ages to use the game as a way to learn. I don't know if the idea has ever been presented before or how hard/easy would be to do it and I have absolutely no knowledge of the code base to even be able to see if it's possible to do. Therefor I would like you input in the subject.

This is certainly on my 'hidden' agenda (i.e. I never put it officially in a todo list or so)

My girlfriend was watching me playing the game as I was explaining how the game worked and, since it's an area were she has some experience, asked me if it was possible to change the way we got the powerups to be based on small challenges. For example, suppose there are never boxes in the tracks, while driving a challenge can be presented to the player, like "3 + 4 + 5 + 6 = ?" and then the player would have to get the correct numbers to complete the sum, in this case the player would need to grab the numbers "1" and "8", the first player to get the numbers would get a random bonus like he would from a normal gift box.

Disadvantages with this approach are:

• Depends on keyboard (many people might just play with gamepad).
• Forces players to switch from one set of keys (steering, fire etc) to something else, which will interrupt the game somewhat.
• Hard to allow input of more than one digit (unless we freeze the game and wait for the people to press return, which I don't think would be a good solution).
• How do you handle if someone is using the digits for e.g. fire or steering? You won't know if a key press is just a wrong answer, or a person frantically trying to steer away from a banana)
• Difficult to handle non-numerical input.

...

So, would this be doable? I'm not asking if you want to do it, I know you all have more things to think about and a game to build , but since you know the project better than me, is there any way to achieve this?

Atm I have a few ideas I might want to test:

• Have a few questions at the start of a race: similar to real races having a pre-race to determine start positions, answering those questions would determine start positions. I would present one question with (say) four different answers: <accelerate>: answer 1; <left>: answer 2; ... Those four answers would be displayed in a shape on the screen to make it obvious which button would select which answer. A wrong answer would mean that you can't try a different answer for the next second (or so). This could be used in various ways:
  
  • A single question, the first one to answer starts on position 1; second person on position 2 etc.
  • More than one question, still time based. As soon as you have answered one question correct, the next question will be displayed. The first one to answer all questions correct is on position 1, ...There would be a time limit to avoid one player stalling the whole game. Disadvantage: how to handle split screen (either we have to display the questions in each split screen separately, or the faster player would have to wait for the slower)
  • More than one question, but points based. A correct answer at the first try is (say) 4 points, then 2, 1, 0. Most points wins. Ties might be resolved by using the time, or an additional time-based question .
• Show one question when the player is getting close to the lap line. The lap line will be divided into (say)four parts (e.g. by a colorful wall parallel to the road, so it is a bit like tollbooths: http://blog.owengreaves.com/wp-content/ ... booths.jpg). You have to drive through the right part to (e.g.) get a speed boost, if not you are delayed (or perhaps you can't drive trough at all and have to drive back). This would only work on tracks which have a sufficiently wide road (but many tracks could be adapted to support this).
• We could design a track which is a bit like a grid-based city. Before each crossing a question would be asked with three answers, only the right answer will allow you to drive further. This gives some advantage to the person behind (he can look where the person ahead of him was driving), but would require a lot of modeling work, and a lot more programming as well (determine dynamically a loop of a certain length that doesn't cross itself; and generally making it look right).

Those are things that imho could work in a racing game. This then leaves only a couple of other hard problems: how do we manage the catalog of questions? How do we classify them (e.g. questions for a certain age range?) How do we manage mixed ages playing (different questions for kids and parents)? How do we handle translations? ...

Not exactly trivial, but an idea I would be interested in But the bad news: I can't see myself finding time for this in the next year or so This idea would certainly be a lot more interesting in network games, when kids can play against each other.

Cheers,
Joerg

[Auria]

Hi,

for the record I'm not really sure at all that this could work, trying to combine different genres in the same game like this IMO results in a weird mess - especially since we have many non-children players who will be annoyed by this. And if we make it possible to disable it, then I guess the only thing we will teach kids is how to disable the questions

[hiker]

for the record I'm not really sure at all that this could work, trying to combine different genres in the same game like this IMO results in a weird mess - especially since we have many non-children players who will be annoyed by this.

This was certainly not meant to become part of the main STK branch, and even then only a special game mode. I agree that this mixes severely two different genres, but I would be interested to see if this could be work. Wii Sports Resort has a (vaguely) similar thing: after the running exercise you will be asked questions about things you have seen (how many dogs did you see, what was the colour of ...). But I certainly didn't want this to be limited to kids questions. I am more thinking of a Trivia round, followed by a racing round, or perhaps trying to integrate this (as mentioned in my earlier post). That might work as a family thing: kid does the driving, while parents have to come up with an answer for the questions before the kid reaches the next lap.

Cheers,
Joerg

[Turtle]

I think this should be available in the form of an add-on. Basically, if you want to add some educational stuff, you can download and install the add-on (less-bigger download for me). I agree with Auria and Hiker, that adding this to the main game might confuse it's genre. I think the reward should just be trophies instead of actual game-play with other karts. Basically, It will be like a sandbox version of the main game, but with questions/answers incorporated. Just some thoughts on this suggestion.

[Knitter]

[
Disadvantages with this approach are:

• Depends on keyboard (many people might just play with gamepad).
• Forces players to switch from one set of keys (steering, fire etc) to something else, which will interrupt the game somewhat.
• Hard to allow input of more than one digit (unless we freeze the game and wait for the people to press return, which I don't think would be a good solution).
• How do you handle if someone is using the digits for e.g. fire or steering? You won't know if a key press is just a wrong answer, or a person frantically trying to steer away from a banana)
• Difficult to handle non-numerical input.

The idea was to have the numbers or letters in the game, like you have the gift boxes and the bananas, instead of going for a gift box you would try to beat you opponents to the next correct letter or number you needed. You wouldn't need to type any other key.

As for being part of the main game, I know it changes the game significantly and it's a player niche and not everyone would like to have it in the game. I just needed to know if the thing had any chance of being done with the existing code. I may try to give it a shot but it's very hard to start on a project this advanced and with so much code with just a few weekends free, nevertheless, for the moment it's nothing more than an idea that was run by me and I couldn't really answer the question about it being possible.

[qubodup]

Just in case a clarification: digits are the characters of numbers (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 are digits but also numbers. 10 is a number consisting of the two digits 1 and 0. 10 is also a number that is the sum of for example the three digits 3, 3 and 4.)

I love that you are thinking about how to integrate this idea into the existing gameplay mechanics.

The game Ligretto comes to mind when the issue of "not interesting to non-kids" comes up. In that game you are always looking for specific digits (of certain colors) to progress but players also see what digit/color-combinations are seeked by other players, so a player can decide to not do a move which would benefit them but benefit a competitor even more.

I think this principle might work well in multiplayer: You have to either add digits-powerups until you get a certain number (add until you get 81, bananas could be used as negative digits - alternatively digits that would let you have more than the desired digits will not be accepted or subtracted) or collect a certain set of digits (8, 7, 3, 6 - each player has a different set(?)).

Reaching the desired number/digit combination could either lead to winning or (as mentioned) to getting powerups (or perhaps getting the nitro tank filled up?).

One problem to consider is camping (can be solvable by longer respawn time for digit-powerups?) and another is players collecting multiple digits that are in one row/cluster of digit-powerups (can be solvable by players losing the ability to pick up digits for 3 seconds after their last pickup?).

PS: There could be a 'random digit' pickup as well (either the "*" symbol or the zero "0").

What are the requirements?

Game mode

• Randomly place and respawn digits instead of powerups/bananas
• Either add/subtract digits when they are picked up
• Or fill in a collection of digits if the picked up digit was needed
• Either let reaching a target make a player win the game (and calculate 2nd, 3rd etc places)
• Or let reaching a target make a player receive a bonus/powerup/nitro refill

UI

• Either display of current number and target number
• Or display of desired digits (the ones already collected disappear)

Assets

• 3d models of numbers to replace pickups (would one surface and different number textures be enough?)
• negative numbers too? (small "-" sign + different color)