IIRC, that's more or less what we had already said. Good to remind.Akien {l Wrote}:Before I start with my ideas for 0.6.0, here are some thoughts about our versioning policy. I suggest that we continue as we've started, following this logic:
- Understand our version number as "finished.major.minor", i.e. 0.6.0 is not the finished game (that will be 1.0.0), the "major" is 6 and the minor version is 0.
- For versions with major changes, and particularly changes that make saves and/or levels of previous versions incompatible, we increase the major version.
- If we do releases with small updates like one or two non-disruptive features, some new levels, improved balance, etc., we increase the minor version, e.g. 0.5.1. I don't think we plan to do such releases currently since there is still much to do in terms of core features that might affect levels/saves/config, etc., but I just want us to be on the same wavelength
- If we reach 0.9.0 quickly but don't consider that we're near to 1.0.0, we can continue with the same logic and release 0.10.0, 0.11.0, etc. until we are happy and want to release 1.0.0.
Because OD is a spare free time project, IMHO, version objectives should be seen like "open issues for newcomers or for who don't wan't to do something else". I think we should rather choose a date (between 2 or 3 months) and release with what will be done by that time.Akien {l Wrote}:Another related question: how often do we want to release? I think we should stay to our current "release when it's ready", but we should also have an initial idea when planning the milestones. We've released 0.4.9 in December, and then 0.5.0 in April, i.e. 0.5.0 was developed during 4 months. And it was a relatively big milestone taking into account all the bonus content that hwoarangmy made.
I would propose that we initially aim for a 3 months development time, and if we want to spend more (or less) time than that, we'll do
I agree. I made the mistake once to use 25% tile fullness instead of 100% and I had to change every tile manually in the level. Since there is no visual difference between full tiles, IMHO, we shouldn't bother about fullness states.Akien {l Wrote}:- Temporarily drop the tile fullness categories from the editor since we are hardly using them gameplay-wise, i.e. propose only fullness 0% or 100%. This will prevent putting 25%, 50% or 75% full tiles by mistake when trying to switch between ground and wall tiles.
Is that your goal for 0.6.0 ?Akien {l Wrote}:Focus: build a player community and have them create user content (that could be added in the main tree, and then we could stop working)... Mouahahaha!
I agree. I will have a look at ancient beast and tell you if I find something.Danimal {l Wrote}:- Mascot, new worker fills for funny/cute but we need something horned-reaper like to fill for brutal and cool
That was hardcoded in the training room (and still is). Creatures with level >= 10 cannot train. I guess the idea was to need another room (or at least upgrade the training room if we allow room upgrades). In DK2, the training room could not be used after a certain level. You had to use an arena (that hurts the creatures fighting) for higher levels. IMHO, that's a good idea.Danimal {l Wrote}:- Monster level progression, somehow they all get swamped at around level 10, they idle a lot more instead of training at that moment, or at least thats my impression
That was hardcoded in the training room (and still is). Creatures with level >= 10 cannot train. I guess the idea was to need another room (or at least upgrade the training room if we allow room upgrades). In DK2, the training room could not be used after a certain level. You had to use an arena (that hurts the creatures fighting) for higher levels. IMHO, that's a good idea.
- Temporarily drop the tile fullness categories from the editor since we are hardly using them gameplay-wise, i.e. propose only fullness 0% or 100%. This will prevent putting 25%, 50% or 75% full tiles by mistake when trying to switch between ground and wall tiles.
I agree. I made the mistake once to use 25% tile fullness instead of 100% and I had to change every tile manually in the level. Since there is no visual difference between full tiles, IMHO, we shouldn't bother about fullness states.
i expected more from you, you dissapoint me
Danimal {l Wrote}:- New request: change image in skull flag ... is knocked out
Akien {l Wrote}:Release version policy
Hwoarangmy {l Wrote}:we should rather choose a date (between 2 or 3 months) and release with what will be done by that time.
Akien {l Wrote}:- GUI to create a new level from scratch, define the size, description, basic seat parameters (seat color, allowed teams/factions, starting position)
Danimal {l Wrote}:- Support for creating biomes when starting a new map in editor, even if just a stump for now (it should predefine tileset, music scores and creatures)
Hwoarangmy {l Wrote}:Akien {l Wrote}:- Temporarily drop the tile fullness categories from the editor since we are hardly using them gameplay-wise, i.e. propose only fullness 0% or 100%. This will prevent putting 25%, 50% or 75% full tiles by mistake when trying to switch between ground and wall tiles.
I agree. I made the mistake once to use 25% tile fullness instead of 100% and I had to change every tile manually in the level. Since there is no visual difference between full tiles, IMHO, we shouldn't bother about fullness states.
Danimal {l Wrote}:I actually like the idea of land hardness and coming with 2 new textures should not be that difficult, but i would change it to 0%, 100%, 200% and 300% hardness
charlie {l Wrote}:It's been a little while since I played, but one of the things I didn't like so much was how much creatures moved through each other.
Somehow it looks worse when it is 3D models than it does with 2D sprites. I guess the unclean overlap makes for messy viewing.
Danimal {l Wrote}:hwoarangmy {l Wrote}:That was hardcoded in the training room (and still is). Creatures with level >= 10 cannot train. I guess the idea was to need another room (or at least upgrade the training room if we allow room upgrades). In DK2, the training room could not be used after a certain level. You had to use an arena (that hurts the creatures fighting) for higher levels. IMHO, that's a good idea.
Good thinking, i agree, but maybe it should be raised to lv15 instead?
Danimal {l Wrote}:- Forge: needs disscusion, too bland? weapon upgrade is nice but it could also be used to promote creatures, once they pass a fixed level (20?) they could get put in there and become something else like "Adventurer Lv20 -> knigthLv10", also, the evil keeper will have many more beasties that wont benefit from forge as the good keeper will (who is full of humanoids). ideas for it?
Danimal {l Wrote}:"Dark Temple" could be expanded to evil keepers by allowing to sacrify creatures to mix and match stronger ones, while heroes only get access to "Ligth Temple" where only prying for mana is allowed since they are good fellows (two different temple rooms in fact, and a excuse to use the dance animation)
Danimal {l Wrote}:- Widen music score, this one is great: http://opengameart.org/content/north-wi ... sic-inside
but many others in here: http://opengameart.org/content/candidat ... n-dungeons
Campaign basic support, level linking and maybe a basic map to graphically choose level, support for displaying videos in between levels or after clicking map
Danimal {l Wrote}:the skull flags serve as health bars and heal spells should be possible to integrate by what bertram and Hwo say. Maybe add more partial overlays to the skull flag so life is indicated more precisely than just 4 states?
- New request: change image in skull flag when one creature need is at it lowest, like need to sleep(Zzzz), eat or is knocked out
Here, I do think that is enough, both visually and in term of code, and that the time needed to dig/claim as wall should be changed by the creature level and the tile type.
Are you ok with it Danimal or is there something different you'd like to see happen here and why?
An advanced room. :> I like that. We still need to add something to the light temple, though, or I can already hear players complain.
Btw, I self defined Tier I. What is Tier I, Tier II and Tier III creatures and rooms in your own opinion?
But as for the other states, if it's possible, I would rather use other smaller icons on top of the skull flags, like a Zzzz, a very angry, ...
WDYT?
I imagined harder dirt that would be represented by dirt mixed with stones and cracked rock for the hardest type. But if its not going to add anything im fine with dropping it.
Maybe the ligth/dark temple should be instead the place to promote creatures? the creature gets annointed when put in there after a certain level and "evolves", still, hero temple has less functions than evil one.
IMHO, we don't need a perfect consensus to add something to a milestone. As always, if anybody wants to do that, he can. And if nobody takes it before 0.6.0 release, it will be for the next one. I've always seen the release "goals" as a list of todos when we don't want to do something else (and also a place where to gather what have been done to not have to go through all PRs for the release notes).Bertram {l Wrote}:Akien {l Wrote}:- GUI to create a new level from scratch, define the size, description, basic seat parameters (seat color, allowed teams/factions, starting position)
I'm fine with it. I'll move the issue #22 to 0.6.0 then. If anybody is against. Just tell why.
Yep, I agree. @Danimal If you have something in mind, please tell us what so we can see how much work it would require for coding/artists. Because ATM, I don't see how to handle your request with the current tileset logic for example. Because tile materials are not hardcoded but defined in the tileset, allowing other states would mean to multiply the possible tile states and would make the tileset config file pretty messy. However, depending on what you really want, there might be easier things to do so please elaborate a bit what you have in mind.Bertram {l Wrote}:This is an area that is IMHO not very well defined yet on what final feature and visual behaviour we want to have and support.
IMHO, the hardness/fullness of a tile is determining how much time/gold you will use/earn when digging it. Atm, visually, we only support 100% and 0% but as for the value, we support more. Akien is proposing to follow the currently available visuals by only permitting 0 or 100%.
Here, I do think that is enough, both visually and in term of code, and that the time needed to dig/claim as wall should be changed by the creature level and the tile type.
Are you ok with it Danimal or is there something different you'd like to see happen here and why?
De-hardcoding should be enough as a first step. But I agree that until we have the arena, we can temporarily increase max level and lower it when it will be there. We could also add a research that would increase the maximum level creatures can reach in the training room.Bertram {l Wrote}:Danimal {l Wrote}:Good thinking, i agree, but maybe it should be raised to lv15 instead?
There are several things here. I think we're all ok to see another room alla arena. As for the level, I'm not sure. What max level should a creature get in the arena for instance?
Is lvl10 in training room, lvl20 in arena acceptable or do you see more something like lvl15 in training room, lvl 25 in arena maybe?
I would even say that the whole forge concept should be discussed. From what I had understood, it was to forge weapons. If we want to allow it to promote units, we should first decide which can be upgraded and how more precisely IMHO (starting by do we want to use the same room for both functions ?).Bertram {l Wrote}:- Promote certain units should be a unlockable skill specific to each faction.
- Balancing the forge should be discussed only once we have it in game, IMHO.
Well, Danimal said that worshipping creatures would give mana to the keeper. That's a good idea IMHO.Bertram {l Wrote}:An advanced room. :> I like that. We still need to add something to the light temple, though, or I can already hear players complain.
I agree, it is too early for that IMHO. When we will have the levels (and videos and whatever funny things our artists can craft), we will have time to think about how to package everything in a campaign ^^Bertram {l Wrote}:Danimal {l Wrote}:Campaign basic support, level linking and maybe a basic map to graphically choose level, support for displaying videos in between levels or after clicking map
Some parts of this one are clearly too early, IMHO. I wouldn't create a clickable worldmap to select a level a priority for now. In fact, I must say I'm rather against starting the campaign until we have 80% of the features done or we will have to perpetually redo it afterwards. That said, as usual, if anyone wants to throw himself into it and start implementing, I won't complain either.
But I'd add prerequisites:
- Scripting support and event handling.
- scripted goals support.
- Tier II rooms for both factions.
I know in your world, there are only 3 tiers but in the artistic world, there are 4. The last one being for the most powerfull creatures (BigKnights and PitDemons)Bertram {l Wrote}:Btw, I self defined Tier I. What is Tier I, Tier II and Tier III creatures and rooms in your own opinion?
Well, we have already spoke about skull flags and I guess we should define what they will be used for. IIRC, we also said that we wanted to allow to customize the flag. If we also want to add some creature state, we should see what we want to display and decide what is most suited (if we want to display too many things having something similar to skull flag but different could be better)Danimal {l Wrote}:the skull flags serve as health bars and heal spells should be possible to integrate by what bertram and Hwo say. Maybe add more partial overlays to the skull flag so life is indicated more precisely than just 4 states?
- New request: change image in skull flag when one creature need is at it lowest, like need to sleep(Zzzz), eat or is knocked out
Skull flags are currently defined in a material. The more states we have, the more png we will need for each flag. But I agree currently, it is hard to know when a creature will really get killed or not.Bertram {l Wrote}:Improving the Skull Flags is a good idea. I would make the skull flag health states be 8 not 4 indeed, as the 2 and 3 make it a bit unpredictable when in a middle of a struggle.
I would also like to make it so the skull flag is depending on the faction.
But as for the other states, if it's possible, I would rather use other smaller icons on top of the skull flags, like a Zzzz, a very angry, ...
Bertram {l Wrote}:Hwoarangmy {l Wrote}:we should rather choose a date (between 2 or 3 months) and release with what will be done by that time.
+1 We're a spare-time project. Adding fixed deadline is IMHO adding a useless pressure.
Bertram {l Wrote}:Danimal {l Wrote}:Campaign basic support, level linking and maybe a basic map to graphically choose level, support for displaying videos in between levels or after clicking map
Some parts of this one are clearly too early, IMHO. I wouldn't create a clickable worldmap to select a level a priority for now. In fact, I must say I'm rather against starting the campaign until we have 80% of the features done or we will have to perpetually redo it afterwards. That said, as usual, if anyone wants to throw himself into it and start implementing, I won't complain either.
But I'd add prerequisites:
- Scripting support and event handling.
- scripted goals support.
Honestly, I'm not sure it would add so much to the gameplay. But in any case, tilesets are defined based on each tile visual. That mean that for each new visual (3 for dirt, 3 for gold at last), we would have to define a new entry in the tilset and we would also need to define links between all of them (and that for each tileset). Also note that adding a new tile visual will break saved games.Danimal {l Wrote}:im thinking on a texture difference for the other 2 dirt tiles, and a higher HP value based on hardness; its the same concept as 25%, 50%... but starting at 100% as the base dirt tile.
I've been thinking about a concept. I don't know if it could be the mascot but it would be a powerfull creature. The idea would be to have a creature with a lot of chains, hidden, pretty slow that could look like (with more chains and bindings):Danimal {l Wrote}:- Mascot, new worker fills for funny/cute but we need something horned-reaper like to fill for brutal and cool, any monster around included ones from ancient beast that could fit the spot?
Danimal {l Wrote}:Forget about it then, if we add more tiles for a new biome hardness would make it a pain to handle and keep track of.
Akien {l Wrote}:Of course. What I meant is not that we should have a fixed deadline, only that we should have a timescale in mind when planning the milestone, so that we don't plan stuff that would require 2 years of work when we would like to have frequent releases
Akien {l Wrote}:What would be very nice for 0.6.0 though, but it depends on whether we have started working on scripting support and event handling, would be to have an in-game tutorial. From the first echos that we got of our players on #opendungeons, it looks like the gameplay concepts are not easy to learn; my video tutorial helps, but an in-game tutorial would definitely be a plus. And this one could be reworked when the gameplay evolves IMO, that would not be a huge problem.
But again, this might be more of a 0.7.0 goal; let's keep it at the back of our heads and we'll see how 0.6.0 evolves
hwoarangmy {l Wrote}:I would even say that the whole forge concept should be discussed. From what I had understood, it was to forge weapons. If we want to allow it to promote units, we should first decide which can be upgraded and how more precisely IMHO (starting by do we want to use the same room for both functions ?).
Danimal {l Wrote}:Maybe the ligth/dark temple should be instead the place to promote creatures? the creature gets annointed when put in there after a certain level and "evolves", still, hero temple has less functions than evil one.
Danimal {l Wrote}:I did make a list for creatures before, but basically tier 1 creeps and low level figthers (spider, goblins, adventurers, dwarf1...) tier 2 useful figthers (knigths, defender, orcs, lizarman...) tier 3 strong warriors (troll, scarab, runelord...) tier 4 unique units like bigknigth and pitdevil, as for rooms:
tier 1 the ones you get for free + training hall;
tier 2: common rooms like forge, prison, cript...;
tier 3: temples? we dont have enought to fill this list yet...
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