fracture {l Wrote}:If Oliver's Math Class stays, it should be expanded and renamed to Oliver's School because currently the track is way too short. The track could cover the entire school with the classroom being the same as before. This would improve the track greatly while retaining the legacy of the original TuxKart.
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:fracture {l Wrote}:If Oliver's Math Class stays, it should be expanded and renamed to Oliver's School because currently the track is way too short. The track could cover the entire school with the classroom being the same as before. This would improve the track greatly while retaining the legacy of the original TuxKart.
I disagree tbh. I think it's awesome that this track is so different in lengths to all other tracks, it creates a racing experience no other oficiall track can. Especially in online races, even good players get laped often and it creates a lot of chaos. While I understand that not everybody likes that, I think it is very important to have tracks that offer different racing experiences, (what's the point of having many tracks if they all play the same).
I agree with Crystal that this track should mostly stay unchanged.
fracture {l Wrote}:SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:fracture {l Wrote}:If Oliver's Math Class stays, it should be expanded and renamed to Oliver's School because currently the track is way too short. The track could cover the entire school with the classroom being the same as before. This would improve the track greatly while retaining the legacy of the original TuxKart.
I disagree tbh. I think it's awesome that this track is so different in lengths to all other tracks, it creates a racing experience no other oficiall track can. Especially in online races, even good players get laped often and it creates a lot of chaos. While I understand that not everybody likes that, I think it is very important to have tracks that offer different racing experiences, (what's the point of having many tracks if they all play the same).
I agree with Crystal that this track should mostly stay unchanged.
I think it'd still have a unique experience taking place in a school, and OMC isn't the only short track in the game. Zen Garden could provide a similar experience while being more technical and slightly longer. A track like The Cube would make it difficult to tell whose in first and whose in last while not being what is essentially a Baby Park clone in terms of gameplay. Right now, none of the official tracks stand out that much except Black Forest, Minigolf, and maybe Cocoa Temple.
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:
Black Forest:
- the first two split paths are already balanced pretty well, but the left one makes it easier to take the shortcut through the tunnel. Nerfing the tunnel shortcut and making nitro distribution a bit more even should do the job.
- the tunnel shortcut is wayyy to good rn making it a lot slower and a bit harder would be my idea, my goal would be that it usually doesn't make sense to take this route, unless you're going for the absolute best time.
- monastery shortcut: adding a zipper to the slower buttom route worked really well in my testing and made them about equal.
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Cocoa Temple:
- the left split path right after the start is a bit more difficult and also slightly slower, adding some nitro should make this path more viable.
- in the village the by far best path is the right one either nerfing this path by making the zipper from the jump slower, or buffing the left paths by adding a zipper and/or nitro would be ideas. The right path should still remain slightly faster as it is the harder path..
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Ravenbridge Mansion:
- the path dropping down in the mansion is way slower at the moment I don't see a good way to buff it other than adding nitro, slowing down the zipper from the path through the library could also work.
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Grand Paradiso Island:
- the left of the first split paths is way slower, adding a zipper at the start of the straight should work well.
- maybe the secret path on the left could become viable after that buff, I will have to test that.
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Oliver's math class:
- the secret shortcut makes the track way shorter than it already is, I would just remove the shortcut but I don't know if other players agree with that. There is not a good way to nerf this one except for adding a slowdown to it.
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:And just to clarify this post isn't really about changing tracks it's only about balancing the existing routes in tracks.
fracture {l Wrote}:not being what is essentially a Baby Park clone in terms of gameplay.
Alayan {l Wrote}:SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Cocoa Temple:
- the left split path right after the start is a bit more difficult and also slightly slower, adding some nitro should make this path more viable.
- in the village the by far best path is the right one either nerfing this path by making the zipper from the jump slower, or buffing the left paths by adding a zipper and/or nitro would be ideas. The right path should still remain slightly faster as it is the harder path..
Something to consider in situations like the first split paths is also different difficulties. I think the left path was quite viable in novice, but it's completely useless in standard speed. I'm not saying a path is good if it's only useful in novice, but rather that while balancing should mostly focus on the top difficulty, it's also good to consider effects on lower one.
Regarding the village path, I think it should still be faster, and even more so if you also go for the secret shortcut afterwards. But I agree that currently the gap is too big. It also tends to make issues like nitro denial worse, since if you are half a second behind the leader and he goes in these paths, you'll get no nitro at all, and picking another path entirely is too punitive.
Removing the nitro right at the entry of the right village path would be a good start, as it doesn't take skill to grab. Also, the right path has a "right right" option that is never used, perhaps it could take a small nitro instead. But the standard path also needs a bit of a buff.
Alayan {l Wrote}:SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Ravenbridge Mansion:
- the path dropping down in the mansion is way slower at the moment I don't see a good way to buff it other than adding nitro, slowing down the zipper from the path through the library could also work.
As I understand it, this was designed as a kind of "trap", but for experimented players who know it's slower, the odds of falling there by accident are nil. I wouldn't mind it being slower if actually not falling in there was made more difficult, for example changing the floor so that it has a lot of irregularly placed holes to avoid.
But in addition to making it harder to not fall below, a row of small nitro below and some kind of obstacle to avoid in the above path (most obviously bananas, although something like ghosts would be neat) would make the balance more reasonable. Or perhaps removing the middle nitro of the three nitros on the right side of the library in the upper path, three small nitros aligned to be taken one after the other are almost always bad for balance.
Alayan {l Wrote}:SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Grand Paradiso Island:
- the left of the first split paths is way slower, adding a zipper at the start of the straight should work well.
- maybe the secret path on the left could become viable after that buff, I will have to test that.
Yes, this is one of the worst offenders of poor path balance in the official track. I'm quite sure there is an issue somewhere in the bug tracker about it. I think the ground zipper is a good idea, as it makes the very long straight line more fun.
Although laying it on dirt might look a bit out of place, perhaps this could be done alongside some visual redesign : the right border of the road there going directly from dirt to fall looks bad. Since there is a big concrete bridge, perhaps the underside of that bridge could use a different surface than the rest of the road, on which a ground zipper would look nicer ?
It would also be neat to fix the secret path to use a normal zipper boost instead of the ugly "teleport" mechanic. Getting the angle right might be tricky, but that speed boost would also help making the secret path more interesting.
Alayan {l Wrote}:SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Oliver's math class:
- the secret shortcut makes the track way shorter than it already is, I would just remove the shortcut but I don't know if other players agree with that. There is not a good way to nerf this one except for adding a slowdown to it.
The secret shortcut is quite difficult to take, it's too neat to be removed. It requires a lot of accuracy to be taken efficiently and reliably.
But honestly, while the math class track is a classic and is filled with a lot of visual goodies (in some ways, it tells a story if you look around everywhere), it is not really a good track. It seems optimized for novice speed... I like the idea of having a gimmick track with much shorter laps than normal, I like having a track with very tight turns, but Math Class is both ugly and flawed from a gameplay perspective.
In many ways it's STK history, but in my opinion it needs either to be replaced or a serious redesign. But if we get better textures instead of some of the ugly ones and redesign the path (to make it a bit lengthier (think 15s (14 shortcut) instead of 12s (10 shortcut), not 30s...) and to have a "chair shortcut" that's less overpowered, among other things), would it still be maths class ? And it could be made so the "chairs shortcut" is a bit more flexible (it's too easy to trap it with gum).
All the rulers and books placed with nitro atop are completely useless in the current version if you don't play in novice or maybe intermediate, changing the shortcut would not address such flaws.
Players from ancient times will remember that the current section out of the class is already a redesign of the old Math class that was even shorter, simpler and uglier.
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:On another note after testing the track again I changed my mind on how to balance the shortcut. I think the better solution is to add a zipper to the main route.
Back in the day there were already 2 zippers on the track if I'm not mistaken, adding the second one back would be a good solution I think.
The shortcut would remain the slightly faster route but also be the harder and more risky one.
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Oh I didn't realize it was meant to be a trap. I still think even when it's changed so it's harder not to fall, it shouldn't be as slow as it currently is.
A thing that might be cool would be to make the hole larger (more destroyed or something) the further the race progresses, not sure if there are possibilities to do something like that with scripting.
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:I think it would also be a good idea to add an invisble driveline to the shortcut, to prevent rescues that cause massive time losses and it will also fix the "wrong way" message popping up sometimes
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:I would really like to keep the track the same gameplay wise (exept for the balance tuning) I really like how different it is compared to all other tracks
I also don't mind it's graphics atm, but if you don't like them I could also improve them.
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:- removed the big nitro can on the secret shortcut and added 2 small nitro cans instead
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:I also tried to remove the cannon completly which partly worked but also felt weird, let me know if it feels okay as it is rn or if that part needs further tuning.
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:- added 4 small nitro rows to the left path trough the village
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:- changed the 3 nitros after the jump into a single nitro row
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:- removed the big nitro can on the secret shortcut and added 2 small nitro cans instead
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