VVVVVV is now shared source

VVVVVV is now shared source

Postby charlie » 10 Jan 2020, 17:29

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Re: VVVVVV is now open source

Postby Julius » 10 Jan 2020, 20:00

That's nice.

@Charlie please make a Freegamer blog post about it ;)
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Re: VVVVVV is now open source

Postby Lyberta » 10 Jan 2020, 21:01

NC for code. That's not even "open source". Even id had conscience of releasing under proper GPL. This is "you pesky low-life plebs, enjoy the Gods Of Gaming Spitting into your soul and praise this proprietary code that we had extreme kindness to dump for you to look but not touch, you filthy scum. Look at the code and marvel of Its Greatness for Terry Cavanagh is The God and Almighty and you are scum of the earth, you pathetic, pathethic earthlings".
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Re: VVVVVV is now shared source

Postby Julius » 10 Jan 2020, 21:09

True dat :( Even a custom license...

I changed the title to "shared source" to be more accurate.
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Re: VVVVVV is now shared source

Postby Lyberta » 10 Jan 2020, 21:11

This reminds me a lot of abusive relationships... Like, one person gives almost nothing and mostly hurts other person while claiming that they have only done good. Oh really? What's good about your proprietary code dump?
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Re: VVVVVV is now shared source

Postby Technopeasant » 11 Jan 2020, 03:07

Well, at least it helps for long term support, I guess. Not that the game is a technical marvel or anything...
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Re: VVVVVV is now open source

Postby freemedia2018 » 11 Jan 2020, 05:53

Lyberta {l Wrote}:NC for code. That's not even "open source". Even id had conscience of releasing under proper GPL. This is "you pesky low-life plebs, enjoy the Gods Of Gaming Spitting into your soul and praise this proprietary code that we had extreme kindness to dump for you to look but not touch, you filthy scum.


+1
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Re: VVVVVV is now shared source

Postby Lyberta » 11 Jan 2020, 20:33

So sad to see "VVVVVV is open source" threads all over the reddit. Good thing that usually one of the most upvoted comments are ones saying it's not open source.

I think this is a good evidence that both Free Software and Open Source movements have terrible names.
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Re: VVVVVV is now shared source

Postby Wuzzy » 11 Jan 2020, 20:36

I think the term “source-available” is better and should be preferred over “shared source”. It's a personal opinion, but I have a reason.

It's because I think “source-available” is more descriptive and obvious. The term “shared source” is more nebolous and doesn't seem so well-known. It seems to be primarily used by Microsoft for their “shared source initiative”, but I rarely find it for anything outside the Microsoft realm. It seems not even Microsoft actually ever defined “shared source” (but I am not sure, I'm too lazy to do a deep dig), so that's not really helping.
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Re: VVVVVV is now shared source

Postby Julius » 12 Jan 2020, 00:49

I think the attempt to establish the term "shared source" as something bad and not anywhere close to open source is intentionally done to shame Microsoft. But I guess now that they are a much better open source citizen (or at least pretend to be) this is kind of moot.
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Re: VVVVVV is now shared source

Postby Wuzzy » 12 Jan 2020, 00:58

The term “shared source” is bad because it's nebulous (at least that's my impression) and we don't really have a well-written definition, not because it comes from the Microsoft world.
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Re: VVVVVV is now shared source

Postby Wuzzy » 12 Jan 2020, 01:00

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Re: VVVVVV is now shared source

Postby Lyberta » 12 Jan 2020, 01:23

Uh... I'm really angry at devs and ppl in that issue that defend them. Shows the mentality of GitHub users.
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Re: VVVVVV is now shared source

Postby Julius » 12 Jan 2020, 11:44

Wuzzy {l Wrote}:The term “shared source” is bad because it's nebulous (at least that's my impression) and we don't really have a well-written definition, not because it comes from the Microsoft world.


Free Software is also quite nebulous... we get a huge amount of people here trying to advertise their latest free as in beer shovelware. But it also brings in people who are new to the idea of open-source but are intrigued by it. Thus I don't think nebulous is necessarily bad.

But in the case of "shared source" the use makes/made IMHO sense as it is/was an attempt by Microsoft to "open-source wash" (as in green-wash) their bad practises and solidly establishing "shared source" as a negative term is thus better than leaving it to be used by Microsoft only.
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Re: VVVVVV is now open source

Postby charlie » 14 Jan 2020, 13:40

Julius {l Wrote}:@Charlie please make a Freegamer blog post about it ;)

I didn't because it wasn't a proper open source license.

I should get back into doing the odd blog post though. Surely a better use of my time than the current Netflix binges I do in my off the clock hours. Sitting on a couch is mentally so easy though! :P
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Re: VVVVVV is now shared source

Postby StephenJSweeney » 21 Jan 2020, 20:21

Good of Terry to share the source with everyone; there's lots here for people to read and learn from. All good, in my book.

But ... heh! I've been having fun reading the source code and actually ... well, I expected it to be a lot better than this!*

There's lots of magic numbers, some faux C++, and plenty of hardcoding.

And oh my lord, look at this switch statement!

https://github.com/TerryCavanagh/VVVVVV ... e.cpp#L702

Wow!

Also, the source files are humongous! I start to get the heebeegeebees these days if some of my source files start approaching 1,000 lines. I look for a way to split that file up because it makes things difficult to read. I've actually worked at a few places where we consider a class file too large and complicated (and probably trying to do too much) if it's over 2,000 lines.

(* - I believe Terry himself has said it's a bit of a mess..?)
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