My STK projects

Re: My STK projects

Postby fracture » 12 Nov 2020, 21:10

* the moving spike balls will just respawn or teleport after passing them in reverse mode for some reason.
* you added a 4th spike ball, but I think the balls could have been slightly faster, but you really shouldn't be adding many hazards until the AI can learn to avoid them. Until then I'd rely on sharp turns and narrow paths for difficulty, because this track feels a bit easy.
* I suggest making the castle section longer to where it takes up at large portion (but not all of) the entire track.
* I like what you did at the beginning of the track, although the new downhill slope after entering the skull mouth could have been left as it was.

You said you started to improve some of the official tracks when I asked about the snow track. Have you made any progress on those? If so, which tracks are you improving?
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Re: My STK projects

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 13 Nov 2020, 00:46

fracture {l Wrote}:* the moving spike balls will just respawn or teleport after passing them in reverse mode for some reason.
* you added a 4th spike ball, but I think the balls could have been slightly faster, but you really shouldn't be adding many hazards until the AI can learn to avoid them.


Yeah all of these problems will be fixed but they don't have a very

fracture {l Wrote}:Until then I'd rely on sharp turns and narrow paths for difficulty, because this track feels a bit easy.


OK interesting, I would like to know the opinions of other players because it's very hard to know how difficult a track is if you know the track too good.


fracture {l Wrote}:* I like what you did at the beginning of the track, although the new downhill slope after entering the skull mouth could have been left as it was.

I changed it because it felt quite bad to drive in my opinion (even I crashed there sometimes and I knew exactly how the turn went).



fracture {l Wrote}:You said you started to improve some of the official tracks when I asked about the snow track. Have you made any progress on those? If so, which tracks are you improving?


Yeah I will post a bit more about that next week (probably).
I'm working on: Green Valley, Sand track (finished) and started with STK enterprise.
If you want to know more you can take a look at https://github.com/supertuxkart/stk-code/issues you will find some ideas/plans there.
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Re: My STK projects

Postby tempAnon093 » 13 Nov 2020, 01:45

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:OK interesting, I would like to know the opinions of other players because it's very hard to know how difficult a track is if you know the track too good.

I agree, I feel a lot of the track is smooth straight sections. A new track appeared in the add-ons (Volcano Remake) which I think has a lot of good sections that may be worth copying. Maybe one or two bits there may be to difficult, like the jump, but there's some nice tight sections, long banked corners and height change.

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:I'm working on: Green Valley, Sand track (finished) and started with STK enterprise.

I found a reddit thread where someone was asking about what people wanted to see in kart games and two of three answers said anti-gravity/magnetic sections and things like loops. I think a sci-fi track like a new STK Enterprise is a perfect opportunity to bring some of that into the main tracks.
Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/AskGames/comments/jlw0vp/looking_for_inspiration_making_a_track_for_a_kart/?
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Re: My STK projects

Postby fracture » 13 Nov 2020, 02:03

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Yeah I will post a bit more about that next week (probably).
I'm working on: Green Valley, Sand track (finished) and started with STK enterprise.
If you want to know more you can take a look at https://github.com/supertuxkart/stk-code/issues you will find some ideas/plans there.


I've seen the github. The thing is I'm not an artist or programmer and don't even know how to use blender, so all I can do is give suggestions. I remember trying out your sandtrack improvements and the track looked somewhat better. STK Enterprise is one of the better designed tracks but some sections including everything after the big jump get boring to race on. I remember Alayan saying something about how Green Valley could be brought back if it got some kind of graphical overhaul. Paradise Peaks would be a good addition if it got revamped. The only other addons track I can think of that should be in the game is Lost Chasm, and even that one would require work making the theme more clear and interesting and making the track smoother without widening it.

I'm looking forward to see what you can do with Green Valley and STK Enterprise.
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Re: My STK projects

Postby FabianF » 13 Nov 2020, 06:54

I don't think the track is too easy. Rather the opposite. It has some blind corners, so for new players it will be difficult to find where the road goes at first.
Might be a bit late to say that, but I really don't like the first curve directly after the start. Newbies most likely will keep crashing there.
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Re: My STK projects

Postby wax » 13 Nov 2020, 08:20

Hi Sven,
I just tried the last version of that track, here are a few things I noticed about it :
> There's an issue (I guess it's not intented) at graphics 1 and maybe more; it is possible to see the lava when driving on this part : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGooLBj ... e=youtu.be
> There are a few parts when you think it's possible to do a red skid but actually no : at the enter of the castle, between the 2 castle parts... Maybe, if it's possible, making some curves a bit longer?
> "Zippers" in the "spike balls" part do not speed up. It is currently the speed red skid+nitro of an heavy kart.

Now I'll answer
"OK interesting, I would like to know the opinions of other players because it's very hard to know how difficult a track is if you know the track too good."
-This track is difficult enough, especially if considered you should do it for the first time at the end of the story mode to beat Nolok.
"STK Enterprise is one of the better designed tracks"
-You're again kidding me.
Well about the tracks you revamp, I would prefer to remove enterprises from the main game, but if it stays the gameplay needs to be much easier. Also graphics are far to be as good as the ones of black forest, ravenbridge mansion, cocoa temple, gran paradisio island... (the most recent tracks actually) ... and are broken cause you can go through the wall!
Green Valley needs improved graphics, but also gameplay, I'm not sure it will be so fun to run without the skip.
Then, scotland is the first to improve/remake imo.
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Re: My STK projects

Postby kimden » 13 Nov 2020, 09:36

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:OK interesting, I would like to know the opinions of other players because it's very hard to know how difficult a track is if you know the track too good.


I would say the track is very difficult to play perfectly, especially the section with flying spheres - I cannot predict right now where to go and it is painful. Maybe more experience from my side would solve it, but, as I know, few players make many tries, so probably they will complain.

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:I'm working on: Green Valley, Sand track (finished) and started with STK enterprise.


Nice! I hope the difficulty/overall mood of those tracks won't change much (as I personally enjoyed them)

wax {l Wrote}:Well about the tracks you revamp, I would prefer to remove enterprises from the main game, but if it stays the gameplay needs to be much easier.

Please no, I don't think it is hard to just ride 90° corners :)
One day, I'll put enough checklines on all your tracks.
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Re: My STK projects

Postby FabianF » 13 Nov 2020, 13:49

Sven, I would like to play your improved tracks (Shifting Sands and Green Valley). If possible, could you publish some download links? That'd be great!

STK Enterprise doesn't need any major changes imo, at least no gameplay-related ones.

I agree with Wax that Nessie's Pond needs a graphical revamp (there is also an opened issue in github about how to improve the track).

What I definitely do NOT think is that Paradise Peaks should have any chance to get in the main game. I really don't like its gameplay and currently the graphics are horrible.
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Re: My STK projects

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 13 Nov 2020, 16:38

FabianF {l Wrote}:Sven, I would like to play your improved tracks (Shifting Sands and Green Valley). If possible, could you publish some download links? That'd be great!

STK Enterprise doesn't need any major changes imo, at least no gameplay-related ones.

I agree with Wax that Nessie's Pond needs a graphical revamp (there is also an opened issue in github about how to improve the track).

What I definitely do NOT think is that Paradise Peaks should have any chance to get in the main game. I really don't like its gameplay and currently the graphics are horrible.


Yep I will post them next week :)

I don't plan gameplay changes on these three tracks (except for some small changes like smoothing the road).

After these tracks I will probably start to improve Nessie's Pond and I haven't planned to improve other Addon tracks than green valley.
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Re: My STK projects

Postby QwertyChouskie » 13 Nov 2020, 18:11

wax {l Wrote}:> There's an issue (I guess it's not intented) at graphics 1 and maybe more; it is possible to see the lava when driving on this part : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGooLBj ... e=youtu.be


It's not clear on graphics level 1 due to the flat shading, but it's actually a bridge with gaps, similar to the one in Cocoa Temple. I expect the "driving over wood" sound effect to be enabled for this bridge in a future revision.
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Re: My STK projects

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 15 Nov 2020, 20:40

I have tested the track now with some of my friends who don't play STK and they all could finish the track without too big problems it was just a bit harder for them than other tracks.

Only the resetting problems are extremely annoying right now especially if you are crashing more often but when they and some other little things are fixed I think the difficulty will be in a good balance.

FabianF {l Wrote}:Might be a bit late to say that, but I really don't like the first curve directly after the start. Newbies most likely will keep crashing there.

What exactly don't you like? Just the shape of the turn or something else? Maybe it can be improved.
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Re: My STK projects

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 19 Dec 2020, 19:13

I've started to create a bit of Noloks factory inside the castle now and I would like to know what you'd expect to be there (of course there will be the production of nitro but maybe you have more ideas).

Also I'm not a hundred percent sure about the style of the factory. Should it be like a post apocalyptic laboratory or a modern factory? Should there be stone walls like in the castle or metal walls? Or a mix of metal and stone?
Any ideas and thoughts are welcome :)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s03u9fqdzu7jj ... 6.zip?dl=0
Here you can see what I already did (AIs aren't working ATM).

I'm also planning to have an alternate route which will lead to trough an other part of the castle without industry.
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Re: My STK projects

Postby eltomito » 19 Dec 2020, 21:12

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:...
Also I'm not a hundred percent sure about the style of the factory. Should it be like a post apocalyptic laboratory or a modern factory? Should there be stone walls like in the castle or metal walls? Or a mix of metal and stone?
Any ideas and thoughts are welcome :)


What about rusty and rivetted?
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Re: My STK projects

Postby fracture » 20 Dec 2020, 00:48

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:I've started to create a bit of Noloks factory inside the castle now and I would like to know what you'd expect to be there (of course there will be the production of nitro but maybe you have more ideas).

Also I'm not a hundred percent sure about the style of the factory. Should it be like a post apocalyptic laboratory or a modern factory? Should there be stone walls like in the castle or metal walls? Or a mix of metal and stone?
Any ideas and thoughts are welcome :)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s03u9fqdzu7jj ... 6.zip?dl=0
Here you can see what I already did (AIs aren't working ATM).

I'm also planning to have an alternate route which will lead to trough an other part of the castle without industry.


So far so good, although I'd make the factory darker. I think a mix between modern and apocalyptic would be nice with stone walls but also some lava tubes somewhere. The current factory just feels very light compared to the rest of the track.

I don't expect you to be working on the snow track anytime soon, but could you at least release a version with actual checklines so that a player can actually finish the race? (last version uploaded didn't have that for some reason)
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Re: My STK projects

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 20 Dec 2020, 01:00

eltomito {l Wrote}:What about rusty and rivetted?


Yeah looks nice.


fracture {l Wrote}:
So far so good, although I'd make the factory darker. I think a mix between modern and apocalyptic would be nice with stone walls but also some lava tubes somewhere. The current factory just feels very light compared to the rest of the track.

Yes you're right a darker tone is probably a good idea I will try to do that.


fracture {l Wrote}:

I don't expect you to be working on the snow track anytime soon, but could you at least release a version with actual checklines so that a player can actually finish the race? (last version uploaded didn't have that for some reason)


https://www.dropbox.com/s/j5fqo2z3w3gzc ... s.zip?dl=0
Yep here is a newer version with working lap counting and also items.
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Re: My STK projects

Postby QwertyChouskie » 22 Dec 2020, 04:42

I disagree about making the current factory area dark, what could be cool though would be making the bit of castle before the left turn into the tunnel a "dark/rusted factory" area. The "story" would be that it was the original and small factory area, then as Nolok Industries grew, the big factory area was built to keep up with production demands.

In fact, if there's one main thing I'd change about the current factory area, it'd be to make it bigger, and add multiple paths (over/under pipes? anti-gravity?).
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Re: My STK projects

Postby CinusMinus » 30 Dec 2020, 19:30

I like the idea of having the factory in a more ancient castle setting with rusty equipment (not only because I made a track themed like that [0] some years ago). In fact in the early days of industrialization some factories were built in castles [1], even though this seems to have been an exception. Alternatively you could go for brick walled workshops with rusty cast iron support beams like eltomito suggested and heavy machinery. To me the path in the factory area also still looks a bit too organic. It should have more straight sections and less smooth angles to make it look more industrial. As a side note, the AI currently completely fails on path in the factory section.

[0]: https://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4792
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetter_(Ruhr)#History
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Re: My STK projects

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 05 Jan 2021, 14:26

QwertyChouskie {l Wrote}:In fact, if there's one main thing I'd change about the current factory area, it'd be to make it bigger, and add multiple paths (over/under pipes? anti-gravity?).


Hmm there isn't much more space for the the factory and I don't want to make the track longer than it is right now. But I think I will change the tunnel from the castle to the factory into a smaller part of the factory.

Multiple paths are a nice idea but they need good planning in a chaotic factory (good balance, visibility, etc) same for the anti gravity. I think I will add one alternate route or at least a shortcut but I'm not sure if there is enough space for a nice anti gravity section. I will see.

CinusMinus {l Wrote}:To me the path in the factory area also still looks a bit too organic. It should have more straight sections and less smooth angles to make it look more industrial. As a side note, the AI currently completely fails on path in the factory section.


I wanted to that first but then I thought it's easier to make a smooth road but I think you're right it fits better with straight sections so I will change that.

The Driveline will be fixed of course I just didn't want to waste time on it because the path could still change.
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Re: My STK projects

Postby Alayan » 05 Jan 2021, 19:58

I like where the track is going in general.

I'm not too much into anti-gravity for the sake of it because it doesn't add to the gameplay besides making tracks more confusing (in Mario Kart, they made it silly so that collisions give speed boosts instead of being bad).
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Re: My STK projects

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 04 Feb 2021, 20:49

Here is a first update of the factory part from the magma track.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q3xc48mrp51m8 ... 7.zip?dl=0
newfortmagma-2021.02.04_20.37.05.jpg

Because I edited a lot inside of the factory area the track can't be completed and AIs don't work at the moment. I moved the start into the castle to be faster at the factory to check things while working on the track (when the track is finished the start will be moved back of course).
(If you want a driveable version you can still use the old download link https://www.dropbox.com/s/s03u9fqdzu7jj ... 6.zip?dl=0 ).

In the next version the track will be fully driveable again but for now it's only to show you how the general style of the factory is shaping up, and posting updates also helps me to stay motivated ;)

There's not much more to say right now, feedback is always welcome of course! But that's it for now :)
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Re: My STK projects

Postby eltomito » 05 Feb 2021, 22:47

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Here is a first update of the factory part from the magma track.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q3xc48mrp51m8 ... 7.zip?dl=0


I played it yesterday and it looks really good!
Just two things:
1) You probably don't want to hear this at this point but the cave interior is gray with the lowest gfx settings as opposed to brown with any other gfx level. Is there a way to brown it for loser hardware too?
2) The inside of the factory looks a bit tame at the moment - no waterfalls of toxic byproducts, no breathtaking drives through giant alembics. But I get it, this is still WIP, right? :)

Thank you for this great work!
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Re: My STK projects

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 08 Feb 2021, 00:15

eltomito {l Wrote}:I played it yesterday and it looks really good!
Just two things:
1) You probably don't want to hear this at this point but the cave interior is gray with the lowest gfx settings as opposed to brown with any other gfx level. Is there a way to brown it for loser hardware too?
2) The inside of the factory looks a bit tame at the moment - no waterfalls of toxic byproducts, no breathtaking drives through giant alembics. But I get it, this is still WIP, right? :)

Thank you for this great work!


Thanks for the feedback :)

1) There's no way to change the colour for lower gfx settings at the moment. That would be a nice feature though it would help to give tracks a nicer atmosphere on lower settings.

2) That's a good reminder that I'm not building some random factory but Noloks badass factory, I plan to add the things you missed in the current version. I'm not sure about the colours though I played a bit around with the green pipes and they looked a bit out of place I think I just need to test a bit to get the style I want.
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