Opinions on Android Controls

Opinions on Android Controls

Postby intherow » 02 Nov 2018, 13:27

I have tried the Android version, and steering by default seem difficult for me, so i want tell other idea about it, from image i will share.

steer idea2.png

"when touched kart will run even turn right or left when forward or backward",

so i want to know people opinion about my idea ?

[MOD EDIT: changed title to be more descriptive - charlie]
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Re: express opinions

Postby deve » 02 Nov 2018, 15:33

Thanks for your feedback.

So you mean that up/down should be always 100% speed even if you are near center of the button? And only use analog controls with sensitivity for turning left/right? Indeed maybe it has a sense. Or you can tweak sensitivity and deadzone parameters in options, but it affects both directions.

And btw. next version will have better accelerometer and gyroscope support.
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Re: express opinions

Postby QwertyChouskie » 02 Nov 2018, 18:22

IMO on a touchscreen the controls shouldn't be analog at all. I always end up either going less than 100% speed, or I completely loose control because my finger is too far above the controls in an attempt to actually go full speed.
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Re: express opinions

Postby deve » 02 Nov 2018, 22:20

Non-analog controls for turning left/right would't work, especially on small screens. It's becaue you can accidentally move finger very little and it would turn left/right a lot. Or at least we would need separate left/right and up/down buttons, but there is not enough space to do it...

It should be better now:
https://github.com/supertuxkart/stk-cod ... f07f47f1e1

The up/down is still analog, but I use much higher sensitivity, so you don't have to go that high on screen. Maybe the sensitivity could be even higher, but it needs more work (atm. the code assumes that deadzone may be up to 50% and doesn't use real value).
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Re: express opinions

Postby QwertyChouskie » 02 Nov 2018, 22:49

Is there any reason to have the speed be analog? Not sure why one would want to go at e.g. 82% speed... Either way, any improvement is an improvement.
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Re: express opinions

Postby deve » 03 Nov 2018, 00:15

On keyboard it's possible to turn left/right without pressing speed button when you already have some speed. So I wouldn't remove such possibility. But indeed it's probably not useful in most cases.

Anyway now in current git you can set 100% sensitivity in options and you will have binary 0/1 speed :P
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Re: express opinions

Postby eltomito » 03 Nov 2018, 08:43

Hi!
I find it a bit difficult to steer on Android too but I think the problem is something else: it's the fact that I never know where exactly my finger is on the steering wheel.
I think it may help if there was a very transparent image of the steering wheel somewhere where I can see it (like, in the upper left corner of the screen) with a dot showing where my finger is on the real steering wheel. Any thoughts on that?
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Re: express opinions

Postby annopnod » 03 Nov 2018, 13:54

you can use usb otg connect joystick
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Re: express opinions

Postby deve » 05 Nov 2018, 22:03

intherow {l Wrote}:I have tried the Android version, and steering by default seem difficult for me, so i want tell other idea about it, from image i will share.

steer idea2.png

"when touched kart will run even turn right or left when forward or backward",

so i want to know people opinion about my idea ?


You can try current beta on google play and see if it's better for you. You can also tweak some parameters in touch device options to find best values.
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Re: express opinions

Postby eltomito » 08 Nov 2018, 07:54

I've tried the beta on Android and the big steering wheel is really great! With the small wheel, I can rarely do 3 laps of Shifting Sands under 2:30 but with the new one, it's actually pretty easy. And it feels much less fumbly. So, thumbs up for the big wheel!
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Re: express opinions

Postby intherow » 08 Nov 2018, 16:43

deve {l Wrote}:You can try current beta on google play and see if it's better for you. You can also tweak some parameters in touch device options to find best values


when I tried the android version, I found something strange. the gift box is visible far away but if approached it will disappear, but if it is in a place where the gift box is located, karts can get items :

Screenshot_2018-11-08-21-32-56.png
gift box still visible = 3

Screenshot_2018-11-08-21-33-04.png
forward a little, remaining gift box = 2

Screenshot_2018-11-08-21-33-34.png
forward a little again, remaining gift box = 1

Screenshot_2018-11-08-21-33-44.png
forward a little once more, remaining gift box = 0


then some objects in other places are lost but when approaching it will be like bumping into an invisible object. I think this is a bug too. :

Screenshot_2018-11-08-21-34-18.png
some objects disappear but still exist


(the results of testing on the version: SuperTuxKart Beta Unreleased_vgit20181104)

annopnod {l Wrote}:you can use usb otg connect joystick


I once borrowed, but it didn't seem to support my cellphone
Last edited by intherow on 08 Nov 2018, 16:51, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: express opinions

Postby intherow » 08 Nov 2018, 16:44

when I use the accelerometer style, when I press the key forward, the kart's rate feels good, which then makes me think of the idea of ​​the image I posted earlier. for the gyroscope I can't imagine that.

deve {l Wrote}:So you mean that up/down should be always 100% speed even if you are near center of the button? And only use analog controls with sensitivity for turning left/right? Indeed maybe it has a sense. Or you can tweak sensitivity and deadzone parameters in options, but it affects both directions


it's true, going up and down will always be 100% forward when touching the side of the button that I gave an example.

the thing that comes to mind that makes driving a kart less comfortable with the initial steering style, is because of the greater room for the button to turn the tires right and left without making the karts run rather than the steering wheel that makes the karts run. so when you turn forward sometimes your fingers touch "the button area runs while turning moving and not moving together" and makes karts slow when turning. that's just my opinion.

because of that I thought the 100% idea of ​​running karts even when turning

or maybe my idea of ​​other steering styles can be like this:
steer idea.png

(I think making it simple in appearance but effective is good) IMHO
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Re: express opinions

Postby cddepppp256 » 13 Nov 2018, 02:40

The problem is having to drag your finger. Now I know it's stupid, but...

Screenshot from 2018-11-12 19-35-35.jpeg
Concept for binary toutch UI for SuperTuxKart
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Re: express opinions

Postby benau » 19 Nov 2018, 05:40

intherow you can come irc for a old apk which may work for your phone
Image
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Re: express opinions

Postby Wilker » 08 Sep 2019, 05:12

i have this idea, that some hours ago i posted as a comment in another Open Source game, and although it may not fit there, i think that this idea would really fit for the car controls of STK.

as i had already ellaborated the control scheme there, i am going to just copy-paste (and format) as needed. please reply with what you think after reading :3

for reference, here is the link of the original comment: Github issue of Pixel Wheels

i would like to add to this topic :3

i have an idea for on-screen turn controls, and while it needs some polishing, i think it would be great to have this in the game.

the idea is that the turn should have the shape of two bars overlapping like a cross.

  • the first one, a vertical bar, occupies the height of the controls, representing acceleration/brake, and sits at the center of the second bar. (hereafter, "Blue" and "Blue bar")
    • the width of Blue represents the steer control's lower deadzone (minimum treshold before turning), which can be changed.
      • the default deadzone for turning should be 0, and with that, the Blue bar becomes just a vertical line.
  • the second one, a horizontal bar, occupies the width of the controls, representing the steer controls. sits at the center of the height of the first bar when idle. ("Orange", "Orange bar")
    • the height of Orange, represents the acceleration/brake control's lower deadzone (minimum treshold before accelerating or breaking), which may be changed.
      • the default deadzone for accelerating should be a couple of pixels. but no matter the default value, if it is kept at the default value, the height of the Orange bar should be a third of Blue's height.
  • whenever the player is controlling the car, Orange should always follow the touch,
    • the height of the Orange bar should follow the Y position of the touch, with its limits being the height of Blue;
    • whenever the player is turning, a bar should fill the Orange bar, starting from the center, up to the X position of the touch;
  • whenever the player controls the acceleration and brake, a blue rectangle should give the visual cue of the limits of this control. (the explanation now would probably be about how i imagine it rendering, 'cause idk how to explain better ^^')
    • two blue rectangles with Blue's width, occupying the first 1/3, and the third 1/3 of Blue's height, masked by Orange. that means that they will only be visible inside of the area of Orange, making it a faster visual cue for the limits of the vertical controls.

With all that said, here's a visual example. it is a sketch i tried to make to make it easier to understand somehow.
Untitled24.jpg
the visual example of the control scheme for the steering wheel


what do you think? ^w^

also please reply if you have any questions ^^


one thing that i want to point out about this design is that i think the shape would actually fit the aesthetic of the steering wheel, so the player may still understand just as quickly that this controls the car.

is it good? :3
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Re: express opinions

Postby benau » 09 Sep 2019, 03:20

Now in google play android beta we have something similar:
https://streamable.com/nd1as

Your idea?
Image
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Re: express opinions

Postby eltomito » 10 Sep 2019, 22:09

benau {l Wrote}:Now in google play android beta we have something similar:
https://streamable.com/nd1as
Your idea?


I love the steering wheel that actually turns. That way, I know what I'm actually doing. It really helps when driving. I even tried to race some people online using this Android build. I lost two races by about 10 seconds before I switched to the computer and won almost all the subsequent races but it may be more because the phone screen is small, so I'm not that good at picking up nitro and stuff on it. So thank you for this great work!

Also, you can shoot backwards on Android now! Press the rear-view mirror, drag it into the weapon and boom! What a relief to be able to spam balls in the face of the kart behind me! :heart:
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Re: express opinions

Postby Wilker » 11 Sep 2019, 08:51

benau {l Wrote}:Now in google play android beta we have something similar:
https://streamable.com/nd1as

Your idea?


not quite, but this looks amazing!

i also like how the acc/reverse are now buttons anchored to the wheel, that is a nice idea, but idk how that would work if i were, for example, slide the finger down to the other button. would that make the wheel do a full turn instead of releasing the acceleration?

a good idea in such a case would be to make the middle of the steering wheel have a small, circular deadzone area (which can be disabled or increased), so i can switch from acceleration to reverse without having to release the finger from the screen. :3c
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Re: express opinions

Postby Wilker » 11 Sep 2019, 08:55

eltomito {l Wrote}:Also, you can shoot backwards on Android now! Press the rear-view mirror, drag it into the weapon and boom! What a relief to be able to spam balls in the face of the kart behind me! :heart:


the buttons are still too hard to press (on my screen, at least).. it would be nice to have a more clear way to tell the area of pressing these buttons. maybe by surrounding the icons with rounded squares would be a good idea.
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Re: express opinions

Postby tempAnon093 » 12 Sep 2019, 01:49

@intherow
Could you maybe change the title of your first post to something like "Express opinions on Android controls" or similar, so we can easily know the topic of the thread?
Thanks.

I use keyboard which I believe is analog controls so I wouldn't see an issue with a similar layout on Android. I haven't tried the game on mobile yet but I might soon just to give feedback.
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Re: express opinions

Postby benau » 12 Sep 2019, 01:54

You can keep acceleration when turning by moving finger horizontally, (see the highlighted part of wheel)
Image
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Re: express opinions

Postby Wilker » 12 Sep 2019, 11:57

benau {l Wrote}:You can keep acceleration when turning by moving finger horizontally, (see the highlighted part of wheel)


i know, but i meant like this: currently, if you press to accelerate, the rest of the wheel becomes acceleration, and if i want to go reverse, i release the button to press reverse. so far so good.

but what happens when i want to immediately change directions? in such cases, releasing and again pressing uses some unnecessary time to do such an action.

to polish this, i want to suggest that the wheel could be divided in 5 parts, with them being four of the slices of the wheel circle, and one at the center.
  • the top and bottom slices are the usual: you press Up, it goes forward, if you press Down, it goes backwards.
  • the two slices of the sides are variable, so if you're going forward, the slices becomes the same button as the direction they are currently pressing.
  • the center circle is a deadzone for the acceleration/reverse axis. you can use that area to turn without breaking or accelerating, and its radius should be configurable or disabled.

Untitled25.png
a visual example. on the left, the effective area while the controls are idle, or whenever the touch is on Neutral (N). on the right, the effective controls whenever the player is accelerating (touch on the orange area)
Untitled25.png (1.82 KiB) Viewed 157 times


in practice, the controls should be the same as now, but the difference is that it will now allow you to quickly change from reverse to acceleration and vice versa without having to release the finger from the screen, just by dragging to the neutral and then to the other direction (or going directly to the other direction, as shown in the image).

another good thing about this is that with this layout(idk what to call it), including a sensitivity setting should also be possible (to add to the option to change or disable the Neutral radius), so there can be preferences for everyone. ^-^
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