More block ideas: Shadow and trigger stuff

More block ideas: Shadow and trigger stuff

Postby Wuzzy » 18 Jun 2019, 13:25

I have some suggestions for new blocks:

- Shadow spikes: Like spikes, but only the Shadow dies when touching it. Player and normal boxes will pass through
- Shadow box: Like box, but only collides with Shadow, shadow blocks and other shadow boxes. The player and normal boxes will pass through
- Fragile shadow block: Like fragile block, but only the Shadow and shadow boxes collide with it
- Trigger block (needs a better name): Like a normal block, but when it receives a trigger signal, it turns into a shadow block (and back again to normal after another signal). When it is in the “shadow” state and it turns into “normal” state while the player is inside, the player dies.
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Re: More block ideas: Shadow and trigger stuff

Postby acme_pjz » 18 Jun 2019, 17:35

I think these ideas are good. However maybe they will make the game bloated. Also, we need graphics for these blocks. Maybe you could provide some level prototypes utilizing these blocks?
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Re: More block ideas: Shadow and trigger stuff

Postby Wuzzy » 18 Jun 2019, 19:45

I don't think they make the game bloated. Having more shadow counterparts seems like a natural extension to me.

Only the trigger block might be a bit more esoteric.

Anyway, in the attachment you find some prototype levels (which of course don't work).
Attachments
shadow_prototypes.zip
Shadow prototype levels
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Re: More block ideas: Shadow and trigger stuff

Postby GunChleoc » 18 Jun 2019, 20:27

1-3 would definitely fit naturally.
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Re: More block ideas: Shadow and trigger stuff

Postby Wuzzy » 19 Jun 2019, 03:09

Hi! I have created theme images for the proposed shadow blocks (fragile shadow, shadow spikes, shadow box) for the themes “Cloudscape” and “classic”.

EDIT: Cloudscape: Updated shadow spikes.
EDIT 2: Cloudscape: Added 2 alternative tiles for shadow blocks (to parralel the normal blocks).
EDIT 3: Cloudscape: Made shadow box slightly brighter.
Attachments
new_shadow_blocks_4.zip
New shadow blocks
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Last edited by Wuzzy on 20 Jun 2019, 11:12, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: More block ideas: Shadow and trigger stuff

Postby acme_pjz » 19 Jun 2019, 04:46

Thanks, I'll loot at them a few days later.
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Re: More block ideas: Shadow and trigger stuff

Postby GunChleoc » 19 Jun 2019, 08:50

I think they look good. Maybe the box could have a brownish tint to tie it in visually with the non-shadow version?
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Re: More block ideas: Shadow and trigger stuff

Postby Wuzzy » 20 Jun 2019, 09:24

Maybe the box could have a brownish tint to tie it in visually with the non-shadow version?

I disagree. It's a shadow and should not have saturation.
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Re: More block ideas: Shadow and trigger stuff

Postby GunChleoc » 20 Jun 2019, 09:28

Maybe make it a bit lighter then, or play with the contrast? I just think that it looks very dark at the moment.
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Re: More block ideas: Shadow and trigger stuff

Postby Wuzzy » 20 Jun 2019, 11:12

OK, done (go back to the old post).
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Re: More block ideas: Shadow and trigger stuff

Postby GunChleoc » 20 Jun 2019, 13:09

Thanks! The box looks really good now :)
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Re: More block ideas: Shadow and trigger stuff

Postby acme_pjz » 29 Jun 2019, 15:29

Hi Wuzzy,

Do you think that the debris images for shadow fragile block are needed?

Also, currently, the Trigger block can be achieved by scripting.
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Re: More block ideas: Shadow and trigger stuff

Postby Wuzzy » 29 Jun 2019, 16:19

Do you think that the debris images for shadow fragile block are needed?

I think the fragile shadow blocks can just use the same debris images as for the normal blocks. I haven't tried it, but I don't think anyone would notice a difference anyway. I didn't draw new debris for the shadow blocks anyway.
But I don't really care either way, as long it looks OK.

Also, currently, the Trigger block can be achieved by scripting.

That's a good point, actually. Right, with scripting, the triggers can do many crazy things, indeed. That possibilty seems to be completely unexplored atm …
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Re: More block ideas: Shadow and trigger stuff

Postby acme_pjz » 29 Jun 2019, 18:06

This is just implemented in the git master branch (excluding the trigger block). You can test if the debris image is OK.

There is an issue on the shadow pushable block, though: the normal pushable block will not treat shadow pushable block solid, but the shadow pushable block will treat normal pushable block solid. Therefore if you mix them together in some ways (e.g. a normal pushable block above a shadow pushable block), some weird thing will happen.

Is it a good idea if the normal pushable block and the shadow pushable block treats each other solid?
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Re: More block ideas: Shadow and trigger stuff

Postby Wuzzy » 29 Jun 2019, 23:35

Oh! I just realized there is a fatal flaw in the idea of shadow boxes!

What I wanted is logically impossible. That's a bummer. Basically we can only have both box type collide with each other, or ignore each other.

Possible solutions:

1) Drop the idea of shadow boxes
2) Ignore each other: You could slide a normal box thru shadow boxes and vice-versa. This leads to the weird situation in that a shadow box will fall through a normal box, but not through a normal block.
3) Collide with each other. You can stack shadow boxes on normal boxes, and normal boxes on shadow boxes. This leads to the weird situation that a normal box can stand on a shadow box, but will fall through a solid shadow block. This makes shadow boxes “more” solid than shadow blocks, oddly. IMO this is very bad as it breaks with THE core aspect of the game, in that normal things do not collide with shadow things, ever. So normal box ignores shadow blocks, fragile shadow blocks, shadow conveyor belts but will happily collide with shadow boxes?! Nope, just nope!

The downside of 2) and 3) is that they break with the consistency of the game: Normal things collide with normal things only, shadow things collide with normal and shadow things. Both solutions would at least work, but there's a mismatch with how the rest of the game works … :-/

Maybe let's just forget I ever suggested shadow boxes … Honestly, I actually tend to 1) right now.


As for the fragile shadow blocks and shadow spikes:
They seem to work just fine.


Finally, I think some blocks need to be renamed in editor because they have slightly weird grammar:

* “Fragile” → “Fragile Block”
* “Shadow Fragile” → “Fragile Shadow Block”
* “Pushable” → “Push Block”
* “Shadow Pushable”→ “Shadow Push Block”
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Re: More block ideas: Shadow and trigger stuff

Postby acme_pjz » 04 Jul 2019, 06:05

Currently I prefer the solution 3). If the shadow pushable block turns out to be a bad idea, we may hide it from the level editor UI (but it still works if you edit the .map file manually).

[EDIT] I have updated your prototypes with newly-added block types. And I implemented the trigger block with script.

I found that the prototype level is not working under the logic 3) of shadow pushable block, though. :(
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Re: More block ideas: Shadow and trigger stuff

Postby Wuzzy » 04 Jul 2019, 11:11

Yeah, I think it's better to semi-disable shadow boxes for now.
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