[SPLIT] Paying for knowledge? Heresy!

[SPLIT] Paying for knowledge? Heresy!

Postby Lyberta » 22 May 2019, 06:57

Moderator notice: was split off from here: https://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11644

Paying for knowledge? Heresy!
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Re: Beginner's shader tutorial (Panda3D but general)

Postby fluffrabbit » 22 May 2019, 09:14

Lyberta {l Wrote}:Paying for knowledge? Heresy!

I ended up caving in and buying the thing I couldn't afford, but I think you understand my psychology on this. Knowledge is a basic need, not a higher order need like entertainment. It's not an extra goodie, it doesn't bring joy, it's just hand-to-mouth pragmatism like groceries. That's the swamp of forgotten ideals I try to avoid.
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Re: Beginner's shader tutorial (Panda3D but general)

Postby Lyberta » 22 May 2019, 19:12

fluffrabbit {l Wrote}:Knowledge is a basic need, not a higher order need like entertainment.


You kill yourself fast without entertainment. I mean, if you don't get entertainment you try to invent some such as by killing animals and then trying to kill real people. Entertainment is needed much more seriously than knowledge.
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Re: Beginner's shader tutorial (Panda3D but general)

Postby fluffrabbit » 22 May 2019, 20:59

I dunno about that. Hunting and sexuality are two activities which humans have historically depended on, and replacing those with fake simulated versions is a great way to get some cognitive dissonance. But knowledge can save you from religion and other scams. In an ideal world we would know everything and do everything for real and there would be no need to escape into vidya. But at the same time vidya is its own ideal (for me) precisely because I don't feel like I need it; it's a luxury.
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Re: Beginner's shader tutorial (Panda3D but general)

Postby Lyberta » 23 May 2019, 09:59

fluffrabbit {l Wrote}:I dunno about that. Hunting and sexuality are two activities which humans have historically depended on, and replacing those with fake simulated versions is a great way to get some cognitive dissonance.


Nowadays those activities are replaced by torture by parents and the government. Even universal declaration of human rights article 26 says that the torture of children is compulsory:

Elementary education shall be compulsory.


So by the time we 18 we are already extremely traumatized. I have no idea how to survive this without video games or very strong drugs. In my case I just played video games whenever I had time. I secretly played PSP when my parents ordered me to go to bed, I played PSP during classes, etc... Only constantly killing humans in video games such as GTA thinking that they are my parents, classmates, teachers, etc, only constantly getting my revenge, even if virtual, saved me from going on my own killing spree or whatever.

fluffrabbit {l Wrote}:But knowledge can save you from religion and other scams.


Does it matter if the life makes you mentally disabled by the time you are a teen anyway?

fluffrabbit {l Wrote}:In an ideal world we would know everything and do everything for real and there would be no need to escape into vidya.


Yes, in ideal world there will be no schools and colleges that traumatize you for no reason.
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Re: Beginner's shader tutorial (Panda3D but general)

Postby fluffrabbit » 23 May 2019, 10:41

Trauma is part of modern society. We don't have as much oldschool medieval torture anymore, but maybe we should. Maybe we would feel more alive with bodily threats that aren't related to diabetes and sedentism. I think people fear psychological manipulation more than pain. They fear societal constructs. Yet, that is exactly what entertainment is, and they swarm to the entertainment like flies because they fear the boredom and depression put on them by other societal constructs. All of it is bad news, and entertainment is just the dessert of the state-mandated meal designed to fatten us up and make us complacent. I definitely know what I'm eating, and it is a goal of mine to get filled up in some other way. (Not that way but you know what I mean.)
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Re: [SPLIT] Paying for knowledge? Heresy!

Postby Julius » 31 May 2019, 21:50

Keep it a civil as possible :!:

But really, you two just seem to feed off each other with totally opposing view points. Maybe a case of a split personality with the same person sitting in front of the PC ? :lol:
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Re: [SPLIT] Paying for knowledge? Heresy!

Postby drummyfish » 01 Jun 2019, 02:09

I think you can't arrive at an agreement -- entertainment probably is a basic need to a fulfilling life, and some would argue the same about knowledge -- but everyone's definition of entertainment is completely unique, to many it is video games, to some it is partying and to some it equals knowledge, creativity requiring knowledge etc. The same goes about torture -- to some it is school, to some it may be not being able to go to school. There's often an error in trying to generalize one's own experience, needs and personality to everyone else... and this society indeed makes this mistake by trying to divide things into categories such as "everyone's basic need" or "mandatory to everyone". The only right way is "to everyone according to their needs".
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Re: [SPLIT] Paying for knowledge? Heresy!

Postby fluffrabbit » 01 Jun 2019, 08:38

Nobody is going to agree with me in FLOSS-land because people around here are too soft. I don't think anyone who has anything to say about this one way or the other can claim a neutral viewpoint.

The only right way is "to everyone according to their needs".

According to their needs? What if their "needs" involve certain standards of living that put a financial burden on society? Atlas Shrugged etc.

Really I'm not a bad guy. People have needs. Whatever. I'm just saying that some people's needs can very easily be pushed out of the way because they don't do as much for that individual as other things do for others, and there is the argument of how valuable people are relative to each other, as well as the survivalist argument. My viewpoint is less philosophical than those things; I would say that people who are more aligned to my worldview have more important needs as well as a greater burden to meet them. It would be dishonest to pretend I think otherwise.
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Re: [SPLIT] Paying for knowledge? Heresy!

Postby Lyberta » 01 Jun 2019, 18:40

fluffrabbit {l Wrote}:According to their needs? What if their "needs" involve certain standards of living that put a financial burden on society?


That is called socialism.
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Re: [SPLIT] Paying for knowledge? Heresy!

Postby fluffrabbit » 01 Jun 2019, 22:49

Lyberta {l Wrote}:
fluffrabbit {l Wrote}:According to their needs? What if their "needs" involve certain standards of living that put a financial burden on society?


That is called socialism.

Yes it is.
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Re: [SPLIT] Paying for knowledge? Heresy!

Postby Julius » 01 Jun 2019, 23:24

:? You both have obviously no idea what Socialism even means :cry: US mis-education in that regard is still strong it seems :p
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Re: [SPLIT] Paying for knowledge? Heresy!

Postby Lyberta » 02 Jun 2019, 03:09

Julius {l Wrote}::? You both have obviously no idea what Socialism even means :cry: US mis-education in that regard is still strong it seems :p


I'm going unsarcastically say to enlighten us.
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Re: [SPLIT] Paying for knowledge? Heresy!

Postby Samy579 » 04 Jun 2019, 08:08

I agree with fluffrabbit.
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Re: [SPLIT] Paying for knowledge? Heresy!

Postby Jastiv » 20 Jun 2019, 20:08

I ended up thinking quite a lot on this. If I were stranded on a desert island with nothing, no computers people etc, I would probably just invent games with sticks and rocks. Even really primitive civilizations had some form of gaming. The only difference is now we can do it on a computer.
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Re: [SPLIT] Paying for knowledge? Heresy!

Postby Lyberta » 21 Jun 2019, 08:25

Jastiv {l Wrote}:I ended up thinking quite a lot on this. If I were stranded on a desert island with nothing, no computers people etc, I would probably just invent games with sticks and rocks. Even really primitive civilizations had some form of gaming. The only difference is now we can do it on a computer.


I'm in a middle of a city and I only want to kill myself, why do you want to invent anything?
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