canyon 42 (WIP - track)

canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby rubberduck » 08 Dec 2018, 14:49

I started working on a STK track again.

It is about a canyon as the header says and has "secret base" like elements (something like the area 51).
Download latest version: https://platen-software.de/sebastian/canyon_42_RC2.zip


Included elements are:
a wooden bridge over the canyon, a cave that acts as a secret operation base, a crashed UFO

(older) Screenshots:
canyon_42_01.jpg

canyon_42_02.jpg

canyon_42_03.jpg


Todo's / known issues / plans for the future:
> improve cave decoration elements, create and add own models too
> add some more rocks and vegetation (maybe)
> the track needs an own original soundtrack
> maybe improve canyon / terrain meshes
> better sky texture
Last edited by rubberduck on 29 Dec 2018, 19:32, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 08 Dec 2018, 17:36

Hello, rubberduck! It's good to see a new project developed by you. Canyon has always been one of my favorite tracks and having it redone is something that will please many Supertukkart players, for sure.

Well, these are my impressions as a player and as someone who has also tried to contribute to the game by making tracks:

1. The environment is pretty cool. I really enjoyed the ups and downs and the rocks. All the terrain relief is very good.
2. The layout of the path/road is interesting and has a shape that should be considered definitive, in my opinion, of course.
3. The textures are good. Some rocks in which the textures don't look so good will certainly be improved by you.
4. The environment is still a bit "empty" (to my taste), so the items below are just some of my thoughts about a track with a theme like this.

It is a restricted location inspired by the famous "Area 51/52". It's obvious you are not re-creating the real one, but, there are a few things I could expect to find in that kind of environment. Everything below is just part of the 'brainstorm' and should not even be seen as a suggestion. It's just a listing of possibilities.

The one technical aspect that I emphasize are the bounces at the edges of the way, since they are still uneven and causing small "jumps". At 00:36 - 00:49 and 01:13 I slowed down to show this more clearly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HolaLmB ... e=youtu.be

Well, you're an experienced track-maker, so you've understood what I mean and you know how to fix it.

Being an area where an extraterrestrial UFO landed or fell, the whole area would be very restricted and controlled by the military. If it was a project of mine, I would consider including:

- A zone with fence and warning signs;
- A military truck or jeep in the yard, behind the fence;
- Maybe (just maybe) an aircraft in the yard. A helicopter, to be precise.
- Sentry at the entrance gate of the restricted area;
- A shed that works as a laboratory for government scientists and authorities to examine fragments of the UFO and objects contained in it.
- Floodlights over the fence;
- A nightly version could be nice, also. In this case, a song track that resembles "X-Files" theme song and the songtheme of the old "Crescent Cross" would fit very well;

I would consider too, to start the track from the entrance gate of the restricted area. The gate itself would be the start line.

If it were a track of mine initiative, I would not put the flying saucer in the middle of the road, but I would insert it as a "surprise" near to the end of the runway and it would not be fully visible, but partially buried in the ground. Since it's a track made be you, you are totally free to put what you want.
Last edited by GeekPenguinBR on 09 Dec 2018, 04:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby QwertyChouskie » 09 Dec 2018, 03:58

I feel like the scale of the items in the cave are much too big, STK should have a "larger-than-life" feeling, but that's too much. The chair is approx. 5 kart lengths from back to front. As far as music goes, maybe either the song from XR591 or https://jacobspctuneup.tk/STK/Music/ali ... n_fast.ogg would fit a little bit better?
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby Mr.XX99 » 09 Dec 2018, 12:33

Hi rubberduck,

your track looks great and beautiful! And it has a very interesting and fun driveline. I like how not-flat it is :)

As GeekPenguinBR mentioned the track surface could be more smooth, but I think that's due to work in progress.
What I don't like is the cannon, it feels very unnatural, you're driving and suddenly you get picked up magically.
There could maybe be something like a ramp, so that it's somewhat logical to make a big jump there.
Also you get carried sideways if you're not driving straight to the cannon, what happens most of the time because of the corner before.

I also agree with GeekPenguinBR with maybe adding some more details, but that's of course up to you.
The UFO maybe could also be a bit more detailed.

I am really looking forward for this track getting finished. This could become one of my favorite tracks easily :)

@QwertyChouskie: Compared to the scale of Oliver's Math Class I don't think it is to big:
addon_canyon42_wip-2018.12.09_12.10.22.jpg
olivermath-2018.12.09_12.11.52.jpg
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby rubberduck » 09 Dec 2018, 15:49

I changed some parts of the track now (also the shape changed a bit).

There will be an restricted area with a fence now. Currently this area is really empty but will be filled with contents soon.

canyon_42_track_changes.jpg


I removed the cannon too while redesigning some parts of the track.
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby QwertyChouskie » 11 Dec 2018, 02:22

Mr.XX99 {l Wrote}:@QwertyChouskie: Compared to the scale of Oliver's Math Class I don't think it is too big


OMC has a very different scale compared to the rest of the game. Considering it was inherited from Tux Kart, and has not been fundamentally changed much, I don't think it's scale is a good one to go by for new tracks. Modern tracks made 0.9+ should be used as the basis for scale. In fact, the scale of the items in the cave doesn't even match the rest of the track IMO, the road feels like a 1 or 2-lane road for full-size cars. (Well, maybe except for the wall-mounted TV, those things are huge even in real life :)

As for the new fenced area, shouldn't the UFO be inside it? Think of the whole thing set up around Thor's hammer in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_(film) (video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv9_T0OOKI4)
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby rubberduck » 11 Dec 2018, 21:22

some more updates

I created a new container (new library node) used in my track
container_prev.jpg



canyon_42-12-11-18.jpg

A lot of objects seen here are just placeholders that will be replaced with final models later

The whole track is now in the restricted area too
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby QwertyChouskie » 12 Dec 2018, 05:19

Hmm, pretty sure the US Navy doesn't exist in the STKiverse. (https://supertuxkart.net/Style) :) Seems the whole thing should be connected to SSAO (Sara Space Agency Organization, though I have a nagging feeling it's a subtle nod to Screen-Space Ambient Occlusion).
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 12 Dec 2018, 18:07

Nice updates! I liked the container, very much.

As QwertyChouskie pointed out, the developers avoided to use real names in the game. However, the name US Navy, may easily be replaced by "UCA Navy", since "the United Countries of Amarigo" is the name for the USA-like fictional country, but If it was me, I would prefer "UCA Air Force" instead, since these kind of subject (UFO) belongs to the specialists in airspace technology.
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby rubberduck » 13 Dec 2018, 20:43

some track updates again
canyon42-2018.12.13_20.25.52.jpg

the new ufo
canyon42-2018.12.13_20.29.03.jpg


canyon42-2018.12.13_20.30.54.jpg
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby Alayan » 13 Dec 2018, 21:02

I had tested the first version of your track a few minutes after you posted it, and I didn't like it very much, even though it was obviously superior to most addons tracks. The "cannon" over the river was especially weird.

I tried to test the updated version, but it seems like you have not updated the download link ? I still get the same cannon issue.

Otherwise, while I don't like much the UFO thingy, the path with the height variations and curves is rather decent.

A huge issue however is the lack of color contrast between the road and the rest of the track elements. It is very important to have a significant contrast between the area where you can and should drive ant the area where you get a slowdown. This issue is somewhat similar to what exists in a track I otherwise love, Paradise Peaks, which is also overwhelmingly orange, but where at least the driveable area is clearer than in this canyon track.

Also, playing at low graphics, bananas really don't stand out compared to the road.

Another issue, less important, is that the track's road lacks smoothness. The kart is "vibrating" in many spots.
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby rubberduck » 14 Dec 2018, 10:12

I updated the download link
you can get the newest version here: https://platen-software.de/sebastian/ca ... _12_14.zip

I also changed the road texture, it uses a different color.
canyon42-2018.12.14_09.51.23.jpg
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 14 Dec 2018, 21:07

Some good improvements! I liked the fence, the new texture for the road and some other minor modifications, including Wilber as the security guard. However, when I started the new version for the first time, everything gone ok, but when I re-started the race, Wilber appeared upside down:
Wilber invertido - Copia.jpg

It's not your fault, obviously, but maybe the developers know the reason and may know a way to avoid this kind of issue. It's funny, but undesirable, for sure.

I had some ideas, so I will make one or two special texture(s) to post here. Maybe tonight. I believe you will like them.
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby Mr.XX99 » 15 Dec 2018, 00:22

The Wilber is randomly up side down, but that's intended. He has the same behaviour other tracks. But I agree that this doesn't fit here so well when he is upside down.
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 15 Dec 2018, 05:01

Mr.XX99 {l Wrote}:The Wilber is randomly up side down, but that's intended.

Intended? I wonder what's the point.

Well, as promised, I created new versions of texture for the van in the case it will be on the track. Some screenshots:
U.C.A Van - Copia.jpg
SSAO Van a - Copia.jpg
SSAO Van b - Copia.jpg


The green van has the name of the United Countries of Amarigo Army and the silver van has the name and a different and non official logo of Sara Space Agency Organization (SSAO), the official space agency in the STK universe.
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby benau » 15 Dec 2018, 05:46

You can force wiber to use the painter animation by using the stklib_wilberPainter_a, check scotland or candela city arena

(you need git build)
Image
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby Mr.XX99 » 15 Dec 2018, 14:08

The track improved good visual and feels now less empty :)

But I think there a few things that were better in the earlier version:
- I liked the layout of the track better (except the cannon) now it became more flat, I especially miss this cool corner:
2018-12-15 13_29_54-SuperTuxKart.jpg

- I miss the skeleton that was at the canon, I think it fits that canyon style pretty well
- I liked the default direction of the earlier version better, also this way the UFO would come as a surprise near the end, and I think it's more fun driving that passage where the PC is downwards.
- The river and waterfall did fit also well there. I see that now the UFO is where the river was but maybe the river could be placed differently. It would make a good contrast to the mostly yellow/orange theme of the track in my opinion.
You could ask SvenAndreasBelting how he made the water look so good in Black Forest.

And I found a floating object:
addon_canyon-2018.12.15_13.52.25.png

Also if you drive outside of the fence there is another object floating and you can easily fall of the map.
While this is not part of the track it would be nice if falling of the map was prevented nonetheless.

And the lap line is not there anymore. It did not fit so much the style of the track but having nothing indicating where a new lap begins is worse. Maybe you find something better as replacement for the lap line.

And @GeekPenguinBR:
I like you're new textures for the truck. I think the one with the Sara Space Agency Organization would fit best :)
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 15 Dec 2018, 17:54

benau {l Wrote}:You can force wiber to use the painter animation by using the stklib_wilberPainter_a, check scotland or candela city arena (you need git build)

Ok. Thanks, but this is not that practical. ;)

Mr.XX99 {l Wrote}:- the UFO would come as a surprise near the end

In my humble suggestion, the UFO in that place could be replaced by the big antenna made for Alien Signal arena (which fits perfectly) and, as said before, the flying saucer could be partially buried like this one near the end:
https://youtu.be/WOlXRhjhK-I?t=17

Mr.XX99 {l Wrote}:And @GeekPenguinBR:
I like you're new textures for the truck. I think the one with the Sara Space Agency Organization would fit best :)

I agree. I had the idea of a version with the Army painting, but while talking with my brother, he told me to do another one in the style of the NASA vans, as if the technicians of the space agency were there tracking signals from the outer space.
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby rubberduck » 16 Dec 2018, 18:51

I changed the UFO-position and added the "antenna" from the alien signal arena
canyon42-2018.12.16_16.18.26.jpg

Also the start position and direction changed and the river is back too. (the river still needs a good shader)
canyon42-2018.12.16_16.19.13.jpg


The river goes down into ground (into some sort of hidden cave) and I found a place for the skeleton that was in the initial version of the track
canyon42-2018.12.16_16.18.04.jpg
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby rubberduck » 18 Dec 2018, 18:52

I experimented how the track looks at night and improved these floodlights
canyon42-2018.12.18_15.46.25.jpg


I also worked on the cave again
canyon42-2018.12.18_15.48.36.jpg


I will upload the new version soon, maybe i will work on a few other things before.
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 18 Dec 2018, 20:26

Good improvements!

I particularly prefer a nighty version for this theme (UFO in a secret base on desert). Anyway, the floodlights are good and can be emitting light even in the case of the track be played at afternoon or "night" during the Sunset. In this case, a part of the scenery would be very well illuminated while the secret base would be dark, hidden by the rocks. Just an idea.

The maps of the texture with the Space Agency painting in the case you wish to test it:
Van (SSAO) B 1024 - Copia.png
Van (SSAO) 1080 Orange - Copia.png

:bsd: :gpl:
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby rubberduck » 18 Dec 2018, 22:42

the texture looks good on the van
canyon42-2018.12.18_22.33.11.png



I need a texure for a sign showing a warning about the restricted area. Size and color should be something like this.
sign_restricted_area.png


I also thought about adding this vehicle into the game: https://opengameart.org/content/willys-jeep-asset
It could have the ssao logo too.
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 18 Dec 2018, 23:05

Nice rendering! The addition of a Jeep is totally compatible, but IMO, in this case, the vehicle should belong to the Army. So, I think the green painting with a white star fits better, but it`s just my view.

I didn't understand the part about the warning. Do you mean a sign with a warning with that blue background? Most warning signs have white background.
https://goo.gl/images/J5nrDT
http://www.dreamlandresort.com/area51/gl_road.html
https://goo.gl/images/SY5QLs
https://goo.gl/images/ZAo2oW
https://goo.gl/images/ktamYN
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby rubberduck » 19 Dec 2018, 19:31

I updated the download link: https://platen-software.de/sebastian/ca ... _12_19.zip

canyon42-2018.12.19_18.43.57.jpg

canyon42-2018.12.19_18.44.37.jpg


The track is almost finished, there a some smaller issues:
> the river needs to be improved (displacement shader, texture), also resetting the kart when falling into the river does not work (at least for me)
> the restricted area warning sign needs a texture

Maybe you have some more improvement ideas too.


I need a warning sign just like in the first link, a white sign is ok
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Re: canyon 42 (WIP - track)

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 19 Dec 2018, 21:04

Hi!

I really liked the improvements. In particular, I liked much this internet server (?) cabinet:
Canyon 19-12 a - Copia.png


Generally speaking, the track is good. The hour of the day (at the sunset) fits well the theme and the sky texture looks beautiful. I only spot (and this is just an observation) two visual aspects:

1. the visibility of the flying saucer, which could be a bit smaller and placed a bit (just a bit) near the road. At some point on the road, the driver barely sees it.


2. the size of the army tents could be larger, since they are almost the same size of the Jeep.
Canyon 19-12 e - Copia.png


IMO, of course. Nobody is obligated to agree with me.

I will upload the "warning sign" tonight (local hour). As complement, I would add as comic element a green ET whose face looks a bit scared and hidden at some point near the flying saucer or the computers in the cave as suggested by my brother days ago.
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