Las Dunas Stadium

Re: Las Dunas Stadium - Test the track

Postby samuncle » 30 Dec 2015, 22:47

@GeekPenguinBR can you come on IRC chan #stk on freenode please :). It's easier for me to talk directly.

You can use the webchat http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=%23stk&uio=d4
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium - Test the track

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 30 Dec 2015, 22:48

XGhost {l Wrote}:What about uploading your track to the Add-Ons database as soon as possible? Ok, the voting system is not incredibly complex, but it will give STK players from all over the world the possibility to test your track. You can do that even if your track is WIP. Thereby you let the players experience the changes that your track makes.

By the way, remember back to 0.7-0.8: Add-Ons were quite popular. Some tracks from the Add-Ons were better than the ones of the core game (my opinion). Some even made it into the core by starting as Add-Ons...


Yes. I have not against addons, neither, I asked or I suggested that our track is intended for the main game n only for this. I can upload the track when we finish tthe changes that will make it more playable.;)
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium - Test the track

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 30 Dec 2015, 22:50

samuncle {l Wrote}:@GeekPenguinBR can you come on IRC chan #stk on freenode please :). It's easier for me to talk directly.

You can use the webchat http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=%23stk&uio=d4


I'm not familiar to this. I even not have a IRC profile. I think it's better using the direct message. :think:
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium - Test the track

Postby samuncle » 30 Dec 2015, 22:59

You don't need one. The whole team is on IRC it's very easy and a bit like a chat room. Just choose a nickname GeekPenguinBR is fine. You don't have to register nor to have an account. It's click and connect. That's why I made the proposition
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium - Test the track

Postby Auria » 30 Dec 2015, 23:42

Hi,

just posting my experience and perhaps some clarifications

First, the graphics and the mood are great, congratulations!

I would agree that the track is almost impossible to play - on hard difficulty. I believe you probably tested on easy difficulty, that's what you show in your video and indeed the track seems fully playable on easy difficulty. However, on hard difficulty, the karts are quite a bit faster and the narrow track and the jumps are hard to navigate on hard difficulty (the jumps would often end up throwing me way too far, off the track)

Also, as a few people have noted, the driveline sometimes goes under the track, this can cause issues when rescusing the kart (kart ends up being rescued under the track)

So my suggestion would be to start by tweaking the track to make it easier to navigate on hard difficulty

Thanks for the work, hoping this doesn't discourage you
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium - Test the track

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 30 Dec 2015, 23:49

Auria {l Wrote}:First, the graphics and the mood are great, congratulations!


Thank you, very much! :)

Auria"I would agree that the track is almost impossible to play - on hard difficulty. I believe you probably tested on easy difficulty, that's what you show in your video and indeed the track seems fully playable on easy difficulty. [/quote]
Actually, the video has slow speed due to the software used to record.My brother played with not much difficult at supertuxkart level using a keyboard. Ok, we done the track,but, even so. We didn't find it so hard. :o

All the necessary changes will be made to mae the track easier.

[quote="Auria {l Wrote}:
Thanks for the work, hoping this doesn't discourage you

This wll not. Thanks again. :)
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium - Test the track

Postby capricom45 » 01 Jan 2016, 23:13

There is one little problem with the track,

line 7 in track.xml states this:
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
        music          = "jumping_to_the_stars.music"


but the game complains that:
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
[warn   ] track: Music information file 'jumping_to_the_stars.music' not found for track 'Las Dunas Stadium' - ignored.


Did you forget to include a soundtrack with that track? or am I complaining about an old version?
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium - Test the track

Postby ArDanWol » 03 Jan 2016, 03:42

My Opinion:
The track is very well done artistically. :cool: I like the small details, the signs, and the nice models + textures. I like that you can knock over the piles of tires by the roadside :lol: . One minor thing that I agree with Samuncle on is that the crowd needs more variation, but that is the only thing I would suggest changing artistically.
The driving difficulty is verrrrry difficult. There are too many bananas and the turns are very tight (note that I play on SuperTux difficulty regularly). The zippers on some of the jumps fling you over the barrier, and the wall is too easy to drive over accidentally. You also need to add checkpoints to the track because currently, you can drive circles around the finish line to complete a lap. I've also had a bug were it dropped me in the middle of a jump when I hit rescue, and it's also dropped me through the track once or twice.
I definitely agree with Samuncle that you should scale up the track a bit. It would make driving easier and would improve the general playability of the track.
For the score, I'd give it a 5-3-4

Overall, this is a great job! Good work! ;)
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium - Test the track

Postby charlie » 04 Jan 2016, 01:07

GeekPenguinBR {l Wrote}:
samuncle {l Wrote}:@ GeekPenguinBR I think there is a misunderstanding :P.
I won't change YOUR track because it's YOUR track and you seems very reluctant to change stuff.

I already released the lender. How an I reluctant?

I think you're being deliberately difficult now. You expect a busy unpaid core STK team member to fix your track for you? You conflate his statement on reluctancy (and by implying samuncle should fix things, you are showing extreme relunctance) with his request for the .blend so he could give you suggestions and feedback (which you have basically kicked sand in the face of).

If I were an STK developer, I'd lock this thread until you got an attitude adjustment. You want help but you're being almost offensive in the way you are interacting with people.

We get it, you don't want your track to be released until it is perfect. You don't get it, how can that be if you ask questions and STK devs have to blindly answer them (a potentially confusing situation for all involved) and it is you who is responsible for getting your track to a state in which you are prepared to share it with others. If you don't want to share it, then I don't even get the whole point of this thread, and the way you are reacting indicates you actually don't really want to collaborate or share it. It is bizarre.
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium - Test the track

Postby Auria » 04 Jan 2016, 01:25

charlie {l Wrote}:
GeekPenguinBR {l Wrote}:
samuncle {l Wrote}:@ GeekPenguinBR I think there is a misunderstanding :P.
I won't change YOUR track because it's YOUR track and you seems very reluctant to change stuff.

I already released the lender. How an I reluctant?

I think you're being deliberately difficult now. You expect a busy unpaid core STK team member to fix your track for you? You conflate his statement on reluctancy (and by implying samuncle should fix things, you are showing extreme relunctance) with his request for the .blend so he could give you suggestions and feedback (which you have basically kicked sand in the face of).

If I were an STK developer, I'd lock this thread until you got an attitude adjustment. You want help but you're being almost offensive in the way you are interacting with people.

We get it, you don't want your track to be released until it is perfect. You don't get it, how can that be if you ask questions and STK devs have to blindly answer them (a potentially confusing situation for all involved) and it is you who is responsible for getting your track to a state in which you are prepared to share it with others. If you don't want to share it, then I don't even get the whole point of this thread, and the way you are reacting indicates you actually don't really want to collaborate or share it. It is bizarre.


No need to be so harsh :) we had a productive discussion on IRC, I think by now everything has been cleared up between all involved parties. The authors of this track should probably upload a version of this track with misc improvements to the addons website, and then we'll see how it goes from there - STK members may or may not get involved, unknown at this point, but don't worry we can organise our handling of tracks modelling
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium - Test the track

Postby samuncle » 14 May 2016, 07:59

Hi, I have a few questions

1) I'm finishing my own arena based on your stadium. It will be used as a gift for donator in the next release. Do you allow me to use objects from your stadium to be included in it and in the SuperTuxKart core library so they can be shared/used by other people ?

2) Can you upload your track on the addon server so it's available to everybody :).

Thank you very much for your answer
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium - Released Track

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 16 May 2016, 07:29

After two failled attempts* on the add-ons website (I don't know how the site works; maybe, I need a period of 24 hours to start posting something), I'm posting here the link for the zip file containning the track Las Dunas Stadium for those who prefer to download fom the addons site :

http://addons.supertuxkart.net/addons.p ... as-stadium


Track: Las Dunas Stadium
Author: Tux Brothers "GeekPenguinBR" and "TuxKartDriver".
"GeekPenguinBR" also made the Las Dunas track song "jumping_to_the_stars.ogg".


All the 3d models were made by "GeekPenguinBR" and "TuxKartDriver".

Almost all the textures were made by GeekPenguinBR, except The following texture files
which were made by other authors and can be found on the Supert Tux Kart Add-On Repository:

The "Wilber Camera Man" is a modified version made by "TuxKartDriver", on the
original "Wilber" kart driver.

Wilber "eye.png"

asphalt_straight_noline 4b.jpg
asphalt_straight_noline 4a.jpg ( modified version made by TuxKartDriver )
asphalt_straight_noline 2f.jpg ( modified version made by TuxKartDriver )

astro_turf.jpg
grass_dark.jpg
grass_detail1.png
grass_detail2.png

city_concrete.png
concrete2.png

concrete3.png ( modified version made by GeekPenguinBr )
concrete4.jpg ( modified version made by GeekPenguinBr )
concrete_red.jpg ( modified version made by GeekPenguinBr )

concrete_plain.png
concrete_white.jpg

All the files used in "Las Dunas Stadium" track as: 3d models, textures and music
are released under CC-BY-SA 3.0:
(c) 2016 supertuxkart.
:gpl:
Last edited by GeekPenguinBR on 18 May 2016, 08:55, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium - Released Track

Postby Auria » 16 May 2016, 23:45

Hi, I have seen the track appear on the addons website and it is now approved. Maybe you didn't notice that tracks need to be approved by a moderator before that are visible?

Nice work on the track by the way, great improvement!
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium - Released Track

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 16 May 2016, 23:54

Auria {l Wrote}:Hi, I have seen the track appear on the addons website and it is now approved. Maybe you didn't notice that tracks need to be approved by a moderator before that are visible?

Nice work on the track by the way, great improvement!


Thanks, :) but there was a message about the lack of a texture (box_door.jgp), so, I'm uploading the track again right now.
I changed the screenshot imagetoo (the previous is outdated).
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium uploaded to Add-Ons Website

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 17 May 2016, 00:21

Done! The track was uploaded to the add-ons website.
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium uploaded to Add-Ons Website

Postby zequinha » 17 May 2016, 09:43

Thanks a lot! Looking forward to try it!
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium uploaded to Add-Ons Website

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 17 May 2016, 23:23

zequinha {l Wrote}:Thanks a lot! Looking forward to try it!


Thank you! I hope you enjoy it. Obrigado! Tomara que goste. ;)
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium uploaded to Add-Ons Website

Postby samuncle » 07 Jul 2016, 21:14

@Geekpenguinbr

Probably you have seen my own interpretation of the Las Dunas Arena, and to be honest I'm curious to know your thought about it, since your work was my main inspiration.
I would also like to offer you the arena (since it's currently only avaliable to donators). I don't know what other members of the team think about it but IMHO it should be fine to give access :).

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Re: Las Dunas Stadium uploaded to Add-Ons Website

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 07 Jul 2016, 22:52

samuncle {l Wrote}:@Geekpenguinbr

Probably you have seen my own interpretation of the Las Dunas Arena, and to be honest I'm curious to know your thought about it, since your work was my main inspiration.
I would also like to offer you the arena (since it's currently only avaliable to donators). I don't know what other members of the team think about it but IMHO it should be fine to give access :).

Sam

Thank you very much! I will be glad to play and give my opinion. This is a very nice initiative by your part. :)

I never donate on my own name because it's by PayPal, which requires the real name (and I would like to remain anonymous). I will donate as soon as possible on my own name too when you accept other forms other than PayPal.
Last edited by GeekPenguinBR on 14 Jul 2018, 20:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium uploaded to Add-Ons Website

Postby QwertyChouskie » 14 Jul 2018, 19:26

I noticed the addon doesn't have any source files, could you perhaps upload it? I'd like to tinker with the track a bit to see if I can fix the driveline issues. I'd really like to see the track in the main game :)
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium uploaded to Add-Ons Website

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 14 Jul 2018, 19:58

QwertyChouskie {l Wrote}:I noticed the addon doesn't have any source files, could you perhaps upload it? I'd like to tinker with the track a bit to see if I can fix the driveline issues.

What exactly you want? List the kind of files in which you have some interest, but I'm not sure if I still have all due to an issue on the device where they were stored.

QwertyChouskie {l Wrote}: I'd really like to see the track in the main game :)

If this is your main motivation...forget. I'm sure this will never happen. The developers have no interest for this track. ;)
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium uploaded to Add-Ons Website

Postby QwertyChouskie » 14 Jul 2018, 23:05

GeekPenguinBR {l Wrote}:
QwertyChouskie {l Wrote}:I noticed the addon doesn't have any source files, could you perhaps upload it? I'd like to tinker with the track a bit to see if I can fix the driveline issues.

What exactly you want? List the kind of files in which you have some interest, but I'm not sure if I still have all due to an issue on the device where they were stored.


Probably just the blend is needed.

GeekPenguinBR {l Wrote}:
QwertyChouskie {l Wrote}: I'd really like to see the track in the main game :)

If this is your main motivation...forget. I'm sure this will never happen. The developers have no interest for this track. ;)


You underestimate my persistence ;) Though seriously, I think the main (only?) thing preventing it from going into the game is the driveline issue. So if I managed to fix the issues, maybe it could go into the main game :)
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium uploaded to Add-Ons Website

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 15 Jul 2018, 01:21

QwertyChouskie {l Wrote}:Probably just the blend is needed.


As I said above, I will try to find and open the file. The main device (external HD) where this track was stored is not working properly. I will try to find the same file in some pendrive and I will ask my brother to check if he has the finnished 3D and the respective textures.

GeekPenguinBR {l Wrote}:
QwertyChouskie {l Wrote}: I'd really like to see the track in the main game :)

If this is your main motivation...forget. I'm sure this will never happen. The developers have no interest for this track. ;)


QwertyChouskie {l Wrote}:You underestimate my persistence ;) Though seriously, I think the main (only?) thing preventing it from going into the game is the driveline issue. So if I managed to fix the issues, maybe it could go into the main game :)


Definitively, not, but you are underestimating their lack of interest for this track. Just read the comments to see the (explicit or implicit) non favorable opinions: "impossible to drive", "graphics are just ok" (really?? Haven't seen and compared to the oldest tracks on the main game?), etc.

I know the track had some issues by December, 2015 and a lot of people came to point all the possible problems, errors and mistakes. Then, the track was finished and released in march, 2016 with almost all the issues fixed by us, but this time, nobody appeared here to say "Hi! Now the track is drivable, man. Thanks for your contribution". However, the main aspect of this topic is not sympathetic, as you can see: the discussion was not enjoyable, pleasant, likeable.

Note that this project was the first track made by contributors with more than 100 objects, animated light and animated airship. Special art, including a lot of textures, was done specifically for this track. A a fictional TV station, a TV Truck and a blimp/airship, was created especially for this track, but the general interest was zero. It's clear that the track doesn't seem interesting for most and it doesn't fit the personal taste of the main developers. So, no chance to include it on STK. The track, as well all the files (blender, textures, etc.), are and always will be released under the same license, which allows anyone to use them (or not) as an add on or part of the game. Since makes no difference for us (I and Tuxkartdriver), I have no special interest to see the track in the main game, but if you want to work on it and if you believe that will include Las Dunas in some game, it's ok for me. ;)

I advise you for not waste your time expecting more than an add on for personal use. :)
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium uploaded to Add-Ons Website

Postby XGhost » 15 Jul 2018, 14:24

GeekPenguinBR {l Wrote}:Definitively, not, but you are underestimating their lack of interest for this track. Just read the comments to see the (explicit or implicit) non favorable opinions: "impossible to drive", "graphics are just ok" (really?? Haven't seen and compared to the oldest tracks on the main game?), etc.

I really don't know, from where your aversion to the team comes from... Looking through this thread, you got compliments from everyone of the STK core team, about graphics and the amount of effort you put into this track. Moreover the community interacted and gave feedback. Most of the comments here are positive and I personally really like this track very much.

What also shines through, is that when you released the track in 2015, you released it with the belief that it's finished and there will be only some small parts to fix*. Turns out you got more feedback that you'd like to had. This is perfectly normal and an experience every designer makes when releasing her/his baby the first time into the big world :) . You stated that this was your first track for STK. Remember, your first track/game/project will never be the perfect one. People progress by failures and mistakes. Feedback and critics are important and can sometimes hurt, but will always make you better! You don't need to value every feedback and comment in gold. When you get comments like "impossible to drive" or something, take it, evaluate it, and try to elaborate what the writer really meant. What does work? Where could an unexperienced player fail? Where did I do wrong? Looking back through the posts, you've gotten so many good, even great feedback from so many perspectives. A pity that it came too late in most cases (I'll elaborate, don't worry).

To sum it up: No interest? That's out of the question! You showed us all what can be achieved with hard work and commitment! Your first track? What you delivered is awesome and you should be f***ing proud of that, seriously.

(*) I can get you some advice from my perspective, this may sound harsh, but it should encourage you. This is nothing personal and trust me, every designer no matter what field had to go through that some day, better earlier than never.
I saw too many projects abandoned, too many companies wasting tons of dollars and too many students graduating with no hope of getting a job in the industry, all because they didn't learn the one most basic rule of design:
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So I let them the talking. Watch, watch over and over, and learn, we all do...
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As for your track: I would put Las Dunas Stadium down. You did a great job, there's much to improve (like always ;) ) but I would move on. This was your first track. Your next one will be even better.
Cheers and thanks again for your great contributions!
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Re: Las Dunas Stadium uploaded to Add-Ons Website

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 15 Jul 2018, 15:52

XGhost {l Wrote}:I really don't know, from where your aversion to the team comes from...

From nowhere. I don't feel aversion toward the team. I just realized that they had no interest to include this track on the game.

XGhost {l Wrote}:. Most of the comments here are positive

I really still doesn't accounted every comment, so, I don't know how many percent are favorable or not. However, the bad comments were really disgusting. Read again and you realize.

XGhost {l Wrote}:... I personally really like this track very much.

Thanks a lot. We (I and my brother) are proud to contribute with a track that some people enjoy. Coming from a game developer like you, it's even more important, since you are used to test WIP projects to the exhaustion until you consider it acceptable.

XGhost {l Wrote}:What also shines through, is that when you released the track in 2015, you released it with the belief that it's finished and there will be only some small parts to fix*.

Yes, but, when I said "finished", I mean "I won't modify the shape of the track neither I will do any big modification. Just give me your opinions and I will fix and improve all the details, but not a complete redo". Maybe I did not use the appropriate term to describe the track at that time.

XGhost {l Wrote}:You stated that this was your first track for STK. Remember, your first track/game/project will never be the perfect one. People progress by failures and mistakes. Feedback and critics are important and can sometimes hurt, but will always make you better! You don't need to value every feedback and comment in gold.


Criticism is completely normal. I don't mind when I see personal opinions. I just don't like some term like "ugly", "boring", etc. There are other ways to say "I don't like much".


XGhost {l Wrote}: When you get comments like "impossible to drive" or something, take it, evaluate it, and try to elaborate what the writer really meant. What does work? Where could an unexperienced player fail? Where did I do wrong? Looking back through the posts, you've gotten so many good, even great feedback from so many perspectives. A pity that it came too late in most cases (I'll elaborate, don't worry).

This kind of observation is perfectly normal. No problem, here.

XGhost {l Wrote}: To sum it up: No interest? That's out of the question! You showed us all what can be achieved with hard work and commitment! Your first track? What you delivered is awesome and you should be f***ing proud of that, seriously...As for your track: I would put Las Dunas Stadium down. You did a great job, there's much to improve (like always ;) ) but I would move on. This was your first track. Your next one will be even better.
Cheers and thanks again for you great contributions!


Many thanks, really. Your opinion is very important with all those encouraging words, but I will not change my vision on the acceptance of this track. I don't hate samuncle, auria or any other member of the team, of course, but It's simple to see their total lack of interest: two years passed and none of them asked me something like "Can you give us the Blender file? We want to put Las Dunas on the game, but we need to change it first". The file is there. What kind of interest keeps the original files of a track on the repository for two years without any work or attempt to adapt it to the required standards for official tracks? It's clear that they are not interested in this track.

I don't worry about this. I know this track is far from perfect. I could do a better project for it if I had more patience. So, my brother could do an even better job than he did. Anyway, this is our first track and some people like it. So, we are satisfied. Unfortunately, we didn't improve Las Dunas Stadium because no one person told the personal impressions after the final releasing of the track on march 2016. This was my complaint, TBH. In other words: all the feedback was given while the track had issues. I mean, by December 2015, but no one posted a single comment when it was finished, by march 2016..

Anyway, I'm happy to see that you like the track. Thank you very much for your observations and friendly comment.
Last edited by GeekPenguinBR on 13 Feb 2019, 19:46, edited 1 time in total.
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