Graphics, models, etc.

Re: Graphics, models, etc.

Postby svenskmand » 28 Mar 2010, 00:32

Bodsda {l Wrote}:Regarding the size of the advanced worker, this is fairly trivial because as a creature levels up it automatically grows. It is possible for a Kobold to be bigger than a dragon/knight/any creature

Well they can only level up to a certain point. Like in DK they could maximal be level 10, I think that we should also have a limit.

But yes, a level 10 Kobold could be larger than a level 1 Knight :)

But when I say that the Construct advanced worker is 1.1 times as large as a Kobold, i off course assume that they have the same level, so their sizes is comparable :)
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Re: Graphics, models, etc.

Postby andrewbuck » 28 Mar 2010, 02:20

The growth of creatures as they gain levels and the maximum level they attain are subjects for another thread (maybe once we get the subforums we can have 10 threads discussing these topics). Relevant to the discussion here though is the point that meshes are created in blender at a certain size and exported to the OGRE format that the game uses. Once this has been done there is a further step where they are loaded into the game. When this happens the creatures are scaled in the x, y, and z axes; these scaling factors are specified in the level file. This means that different levels can have differently sized "base" versions of the creatures, or a given level can even have Small_Kobolds and Big_Kobolds, etc.

This also means that all choices regarding creature sizes are really up to the level designer, and can be made on a level by level basis. This is also true of creature stats (hitpoints, damage, mana, etc) so each level can have its own design; the numbers on the wiki and the generally agreed upon numbers are just meant to be good suggestions which, if followed, will give a decently balanced game although this may not be what an individual level designer wants. For example you might want to build a level where both players play using the same creatures, but one has strong versions and is attacking a premade base inhabited by the other player who defends it with smaller, weaker versions of the same creatures.

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Re: Graphics, models, etc.

Postby Skorpio » 28 Mar 2010, 09:43

andrewbuck {l Wrote}:Regarding the animation, it should be quite easy, simply do a semi-transparent texture on a single polygon (I would suggest a triangle but a square would also work). Then attach a bone perpendicular to the plane and rotate the bone (like your neck rotates when you look left/right; the gear would be like a book balanced on your head). As for lights, it would be fairly easy for me to add fields to the creature_class section of the level file which specify location/brightness of the lights relative to the creature's location. In fact, instead of doing an xyz location you could specify the name of a bone in the creature to use (like the weapons do now, only that code assumes the bones are Weapon_L and Weapon_R). As for fog, smoke, etc, Ogre is capable of it but I am not sure how to do it yet.

-Buck


I know that I can simply assign bones to the planes, however, the problem is not the rigging but the synchronization with the rest of the actions. If the actions don't have the same length, there will be either jumps or I have to change the revolution speed for each action.

I'm not sure what I should do about the glow effect, but there should be definitely something glowing inside the constructs, otherwise they'd look a bit dull. For the soulstone I could maybe add an animated billboard, that wouldn't light the rest of the model, though. Perhaps we should take a look at OGRE's particle system. Or could we attach a light/lamp to the constructs? I wonder how much the lights influence the performance of the game.

As for the growth of creatures, I find it very inelegant. First I even thought it was a bug. Bigger creatures will overlap even more and the textures get scaled up, which could look bad if we use low res images. It's also very illogical. Why should a knight or a dwarf grow? Giant dwarves are kinda funny, though. :) We should find another way to show the experience and level of a creature.
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Re: Graphics, models, etc.

Postby Bodsda » 28 Mar 2010, 22:51

Skorpio {l Wrote}:
andrewbuck {l Wrote}:Regarding the animation, it should be quite easy, simply do a semi-transparent texture on a single polygon (I would suggest a triangle but a square would also work). Then attach a bone perpendicular to the plane and rotate the bone (like your neck rotates when you look left/right; the gear would be like a book balanced on your head). As for lights, it would be fairly easy for me to add fields to the creature_class section of the level file which specify location/brightness of the lights relative to the creature's location. In fact, instead of doing an xyz location you could specify the name of a bone in the creature to use (like the weapons do now, only that code assumes the bones are Weapon_L and Weapon_R). As for fog, smoke, etc, Ogre is capable of it but I am not sure how to do it yet.

-Buck


I know that I can simply assign bones to the planes, however, the problem is not the rigging but the synchronization with the rest of the actions. If the actions don't have the same length, there will be either jumps or I have to change the revolution speed for each action.

I'm not sure what I should do about the glow effect, but there should be definitely something glowing inside the constructs, otherwise they'd look a bit dull. For the soulstone I could maybe add an animated billboard, that wouldn't light the rest of the model, though. Perhaps we should take a look at OGRE's particle system. Or could we attach a light/lamp to the constructs? I wonder how much the lights influence the performance of the game.

As for the growth of creatures, I find it very inelegant. First I even thought it was a bug. Bigger creatures will overlap even more and the textures get scaled up, which could look bad if we use low res images. It's also very illogical. Why should a knight or a dwarf grow? Giant dwarves are kinda funny, though. :) We should find another way to show the experience and level of a creature.


I like the growing creatures, but I can see how it could detrimentally affect the game play. That said, perhaps this should be a choice for the player? If we have the ability to do it, there is no reason to deny people who want to do it.

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Re: Graphics, models, etc.

Postby svenskmand » 28 Mar 2010, 23:05

I kinda like the growing from DK, but it should off course not be much. The shot Bodsda made is way too much, although comical :)
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Re: Graphics, models, etc.

Postby andrewbuck » 29 Mar 2010, 02:47

Part of the idea with growing is that (although it is not yet implemented) bigger creatures will need bigger hallways to walk down, forcing you to "widen" the enemies hallways on the way into their base. This will also affect creatures like the dragon which start out quite large. The growing is a bit over done at this point because I haven't tuned the numbers yet so that might be something which puts people off of it, I don't think the kobolds should get to be as big as they are in some of the pics, etc. It could also be modified by the creautre class on a per class basis as well. For example dragons could start out as "baby" dragons getting much larger as they level, whereas something like a mechanical miner doen't change size since that would be a bit odd.

Another possibility, to be used in conjunction with the growing would be "addons" that the creatures get. The constructs could get extra arms/weapons as they gain levels, whereas things like knights could accumalate war trophies, undead collect neclaces made of ears, etc.

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Re: Graphics, models, etc.

Postby Skorpio » 29 Mar 2010, 14:37

andrewbuck {l Wrote}:Part of the idea with growing is that (although it is not yet implemented) bigger creatures will need bigger hallways to walk down, forcing you to "widen" the enemies hallways on the way into their base.

-Buck


Hehe that was my suggestion. :)

I've improved the construct a little bit, it looks pretty nice now with its heart or soulstone. I could upload a new media pack tomorrow or in a few days, if you want.
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Re: Graphics, models, etc.

Postby andrewbuck » 29 Mar 2010, 17:48

Regarding the media pack, the level file format has changed a bit so I will need to send you the new files. Also I was going through and trimming out unnecessary stuff to make the pack smaller (for example of the .zip files in the "packs" directory we only need Ogre.zip, the others can be removed). I think it would be a good idea to start with an empty folder and just repeatedly try to run the game, adding in any files it wants until we get to the minimum necessary. Not only does this make the file smaller, but it also cuts down on potential licensing issues.

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