Map sketches

Map sketches

Postby Wuzzy » 17 Aug 2014, 22:11

I do not know how to create maps or if Terminal Overload already permits this, but I have made some rough sketches and ideas for some maps. You find them as an PDF attachment.

Some notes about the symbols:
Black lines denote cell borders. Everything outside is considered “the rest of the map”; normally, it should normally not be easy or even possible to reach.
The starting zones are marked with the team’s numbers. All other cells are considered neutral.
To denote hills, I use a blue “arrow”. The arrow points uphill. If not noted otherwise, all cells are flat.
Areas which have been crossed-out in red are not a cell to be taken. They are intended to be obstacles as well.
Red lines or dots are obstacles.

Notes about special maps:
Bowl: This is a circle which is becomes slightly lower towards the center.
King of the Hill (both variants): The 4 crossed-out squares should go uphill to. The whole point of this map is that there is a hill in the center of the map, located in the 9 center cells. The center cell shall be flat again.
King of the Hill (4 teams): This sketch is intended for a 4 team play, in case Terminal Overload will ever be able to support 4 teams.
Spirals: The blue area should be higher than the cells. It should be something like a somewhat steep climb, like in ETH1.
Walls: The 4 large crossed-out areas should be really large obstacles, the 8 small ones should be somehow walls, not that tall but still tall enough to be not able to look above it.
The other maps should be self-explanationary.
Attachments
Level_Sketches.pdf
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Re: Map sketches

Postby Julius » 18 Aug 2014, 06:56

Maybe this is a good time to discuss general mapping principles... creating a map is btw easily possible with the build in editor you can start from the main menu.

I had a quick discussion on the topic of map-layouts with fr1tz a short while ago and most of your sketches wouldn't work in TOL.

It seems like maps have to be linear, i.e. each zone can have only two neighbors... and this is intentional ;)

Non-zone short-cuts/side-paths are possible though, and fr1tz mentioned something about implementing different kind of zones in the future; not quite sure, but something along the lines of easier to defend or so.

Map objects can also be used to effect game-play (like offering spots for sniping), but they should not obstruct free movement too much.

I also think that defensive structures like placeable turrets or so are planned in the medium term, or at least I would really like to see such in TOL :D
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Re: Map sketches

Postby fr1tz » 18 Aug 2014, 12:46

It's possible to create maps using just the tools provided by the in-game editor, but I wouldn't recommend it, at least not for Ethernet maps. Sooner or later you'll have to use an external modeler that supports collada exports (Blender being the recommended choice) if you want to do neat stuff.

As far as the map sketches go: What mray said. Ethernet maps are currently technically limited to rectangular zones and one linear zone path. Allowing zones to be different shapes is something that could make sense (but would require quite a bit of work), but branching zone paths don't work in my experience.

Terminal Overload could feature a Frontline mode (see explanation here and here), but my personal priority in terms of game modes is Ethernet > Deathmatch > CTF > Frontline.
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Re: Map sketches

Postby Wuzzy » 18 Aug 2014, 15:11

I can understand that “freeform” zone shapes could be a problem but why zone branching?
Even in ROTC:E there were some sort of branches used: On the pond map, there were a branch to the “sniper house”. So even ROTC:E was not 100% linear.
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Re: Map sketches

Postby fr1tz » 18 Aug 2014, 15:38

That zone on /eth/pond wasn't so much a branch as a single leaf + it didn't improve gameplay, imho.
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Re: Map sketches

Postby Julius » 18 Aug 2014, 17:42

While we are discussing future game modes: I think a capture the point mode like found in TeamFortress2 would be much more interesting than DM or CTF. Especially the latter is little fun if you can move so fast (case in point, playing CTF in Xonotic with players that have mastered fast movement is rather boring as the flag just moves back and forth and defense is nearly impossible).

Back on topic: I think that TOL with two alternative routes could be quite fun if you play with quite a lot of players (>8).
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Re: Map sketches

Postby fr1tz » 18 Aug 2014, 17:59

I consider Tribes the best CTF game made so far. Fast movement is the key to a good CTF game, imho, you just need open maps.

Coming up with a capture the point mode that actually works has been on my TODO for a long time, but I think you'd have to design a game around it from the start, whereas TOL's mechanics work quite well for classic DM and CTF, even though I'd like to add some experimental stuff to those modes as well.

As far as alternative zone paths are concerned, they just scatter the action (for example 8 players with two paths = 4 players per path, when 8 players per path is so much more fun).
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Re: Map sketches

Postby Wuzzy » 18 Aug 2014, 23:53

“Capture the point”, “Tribes” …
Sorry, I do not know what you are talking about. xD
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Re: Map sketches

Postby mray » 19 Aug 2014, 00:04

The most important notion against multiple paths seems to be that it scatters action.
It is hard to deny that, and even harder to come up with a case that this does not matter.
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Re: Map sketches

Postby Wuzzy » 19 Aug 2014, 00:41

Back to topic: I redrew the “Spirals” draft and came up with rectangular spirals. Maybe this one is more usable now?
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RectSpirals.pdf
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Re: Map sketches

Postby fr1tz » 19 Aug 2014, 01:32

The basic idea works, the problem is the lack of variety in zone-size/shape and lack of details on how the zones "interact", ie. from which zone is it possible to flank another zone or from which zone can you shoot into another zone etc.

Let me give you two examples from the map I'm currently working on:
Image

Example 1: The zone in question is a long and narrow and inside a tunnel, so I'm expecting it will be really hard to make it through if there's 1+ players defending on the other end. That's why the zone can be attacked from three different sides (red arrows).

Example 2: The stretch indicated by the green arrow is not quite as narrow as the first example, but it's uphill and attackers can be fired upon from a lot of positions (violet lines), that's why the stretch has been divided into two smaller zones and the map provides lots of positions (yellow lines) that can be used to attack those wannabe-defenders.

The 3d of the actual map is probably hard to imagine based on the picture, but I hope things are a little bit clearer now ;)
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Re: Map sketches

Postby mray » 19 Aug 2014, 11:43

Instead of answering I toss up more questions:

1. Should there be a mechanism that prevents people from roaming the playfield and attack from everywhere they want?
Harsh map topology keeping players at bay is boring. The map should rather invite some behaviour but not restrict.

2. If your draft has to few variation - are there other elements besides flanking/shooting that you are searching for?
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Re: Map sketches

Postby fr1tz » 19 Aug 2014, 13:35

1. Can you give examples of what you mean?
2. There's of course the question of structures both within and outside the zones (towers, walls, etc) but at the moment I think that's it.
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Re: Map sketches

Postby mray » 19 Aug 2014, 13:53

@ 1.
A tunnel strikes me as an espacially rigid restriction on player movement-freedom.
A pleatau might enable players on it but not restrict players around it too much. Players in tunnels are cut of from all kind of game interaction - which should go against the principle of frequent action in the game.
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Re: Map sketches

Postby Julius » 19 Aug 2014, 13:58

@tunnels: I think if sparsely used they are a quite interesting addition.
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