[Map] Cyanide

[Map] Cyanide

Postby unixfreak » 02 Feb 2013, 17:53

Here's a time trial map i just finished. Tell me what you think :cool:
My best lap time so far is around 52 seconds.

Image
Image
Image

License: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/

EDIT: Fixed a small texture bug on a floor, and increased ambient lighting so you can see the floors better.

EDIT2:
Made some changes as suggested, current screenshots:
Image Image Image Image

EDIT3:
  • changed death messages
  • moved the corridor with pipes so the checkpoint can't be touched through the ceiling of the floor below (see screenshots below)
  • fixed some more clipping
  • added sounds
  • removes some empty spaces behind walls
Image Image

EDIT4:
  • fixed a pipe that had glitchy/warped cubes
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cyanide.zip
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Last edited by unixfreak on 26 Feb 2013, 16:45, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby TheLastProject » 02 Feb 2013, 19:34

So, we've got the Cyanide, but where is the Happiness?

On a more serious note:
It's a nice map, but quite dark. Dark enough for me to often not be able to see where the ground is. You really need to make it a bit lighter. I understand that the darkness is part of the map, and I'm not saying it needs to become really bright, but it should at least be bright enough to be able to see the floor.
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby ballist1c » 02 Feb 2013, 20:13

I disagree with TLP here, map is bootiful and should stay that way :P
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby unixfreak » 02 Feb 2013, 20:49

TheLastProject {l Wrote}:So, we've got the Cyanide, but where is the Happiness?

On a more serious note:
It's a nice map, but quite dark. Dark enough for me to often not be able to see where the ground is. You really need to make it a bit lighter. I understand that the darkness is part of the map, and I'm not saying it needs to become really bright, but it should at least be bright enough to be able to see the floor.


I've updated the map/zip attachment after increasing the ambient lighting, so it should be more visible now.
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby 4rson » 03 Feb 2013, 02:50

some people here seem to have really dark screens, or play in direct sunlight. Red Eclipse lighting gets washed out rather easily if you make things too bright, so stick to how you think it should look.
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby qreeves » 03 Feb 2013, 02:59

Okay, here's a quick run-down:
  • The problem with navigation is not the lighting, it is the dark floor texture. Change it, you'll see what I mean
  • Rounded lips on path ledges are a big no-no in Time Trial. The RE player sticks to the floor, and will "step down" these slopes.
  • The roof texture is so ugly compared to the rest of the level.
  • The colour of the entire level (from textures, to lighting, to fog) are a little too uniform. Everything tends to blend together, the lighter floor texture may improve this though.
Otherwise, quite a good map, and a candidate for inclusion in RE.
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby unixfreak » 03 Feb 2013, 07:04

qreeves {l Wrote}:Okay, here's a quick run-down:
The problem with navigation is not the lighting, it is the dark floor texture. Change it, you'll see what I mean

Ah, i see what you mean. I've changed it to a brighter tile texture.

qreeves {l Wrote}:Rounded lips on path ledges are a big no-no in Time Trial. The RE player sticks to the floor, and will "step down" these slopes.

Removed, i hadn't noticed that before :p


qreeves {l Wrote}:The colour of the entire level (from textures, to lighting, to fog) are a little too uniform. Everything tends to blend together, the lighter floor texture may improve this though.


With floor/ceilings changed; it currently looks like so: http://i.imgur.com/3EZcnAI.png
I also added some tiles along the top where that ceiling texture is used so it doesn't look as plain. I'm not sure if the ceiling texture is a good choice, having a hard time finding one that fits.

I'll see what i can do tomorrow.
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby wowie » 03 Feb 2013, 09:43

If you like curved edges you can also just clip them so they're flat for collision but keep the rounded appearance.
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby qreeves » 03 Feb 2013, 09:56

unixfreak {l Wrote}:With floor/ceilings changed; it currently looks like so: http://i.imgur.com/3EZcnAI.png
I also added some tiles along the top where that ceiling texture is used so it doesn't look as plain. I'm not sure if the ceiling texture is a good choice, having a hard time finding one that fits. I'll see what i can do tomorrow.

Looking much better!

wowie {l Wrote}:If you like curved edges you can also just clip them so they're flat for collision but keep the rounded appearance.

I actually hadn't thought of recommending that, good call. Thanks :)
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby TristamK » 03 Feb 2013, 12:05

All my suggestion you can look on pics.
Map look and playing not bad.
Attachments
screenshot.0455.png
screenshot.0456.png
screenshot.0457.png
screenshot.0458.png
screenshot.0460.png
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby bonifarz » 03 Feb 2013, 13:31

I don't have any constructive feedback, but I really do like this map, unixfreak. My lap time is about 48 seconds, and i guess 45.0 s is well possible for a more skilled runner.
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby TristamK » 03 Feb 2013, 13:59

bonifarz {l Wrote}:I don't have any constructive feedback, but I really do like this map, unixfreak. My lap time is about 48 seconds, and i guess 45.0 s is well possible for a more skilled runner.

yes :P
unixfreak, look on sreen. Here you need did like it. Otherwise player can pass this map without touching first checkpoint.
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Sorry for my bad English. Sometimes i use google translator.
The official group of the Cube 2 Sauerbraten and Red Eclipse in vkontakte -> https://vk.com/cube_engine_news - VK support English too ;) . Also you can find all news about Cube 2\Red Eclipse in this group too
Topic with FULL information about Time-Trial . All maps , video , tutorials here . Also here you can see all best times on maps .
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby unixfreak » 03 Feb 2013, 20:07

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Most problems you all mentioned should be fixed/changed now.

Here's some screenshots of the texture changes:
Image Image Image Image

I've updated the zip download in the first post.
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby TheLastProject » 03 Feb 2013, 20:31

Looks great! Dark, yet light enough to be able to see where to go, even with tools like Redshift (which I use).
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby D.A.M.I.E.N. » 15 Feb 2013, 05:18

Nice map, quite challenging. It's stylish, though dark (but it is completely fine, since the mistakes were fixed), it's interesting for playing. Nice job on layout and texturing.

Though, yet few things you could consider (alternatively even fix) about:

1) Sounds. Let me guess, did you work on this map without sound on? There are no sounds at all. I mean really, no sound entities. (Tips: Cyanide: Use some water sound - don't forget use proper radius and setting, preferably "nopan" for water. Room with dangerous lasers: Use some fitting ambient sound to enhace atmosphere of that room.)

2) Put a respawn entity on the floor before obstacles after first jump (Passage after that is very difficult), otherwise player have to start again from the beginning.

3) Making the geometry more round on turns. It will add some triagles, but this map can handle it. If you care about appearance, this will make it even nicer. (Picture "A")

4) Some respawn entities hovering too high in the air in my opinion, others are nearly on the surface though. Also, I would make a larger radius for respawn on the picture. (Picture "B")

5) Consider about rising a little bit the bottom cyanide tube or whatever it is. It will be a bit easier to pass and it will define the area between it as inpassable. (Picture "C")
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A
20130215041218.png
B
20130215040232.png
C
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby qreeves » 15 Feb 2013, 06:02

Sounds: and I forgot to review the map with sound on too! My bad :P
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby unixfreak » 16 Feb 2013, 07:21

For the fixes D.A.M.I.E.N. mentioned, i'll try see what i can do.
@D.A.M.I.E.N.
The checkpoint you pointed out was placed high up because of the floor below (you could "cheat" and jump to the ceiling to get past that part) i've added a few more checkpoints and moved some others including that one.

Also:
fixed some clipping
removed some random gaps behind walls.
added obitdeath/obitwater messages

About to try adding some sounds again.
EDIT: done sounds, just updated the map attachment in first post.
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby qreeves » 16 Feb 2013, 10:03

Reopen the ticket for it so I don't forget to do the update.
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby unixfreak » 16 Feb 2013, 10:14

qreeves {l Wrote}:Reopen the ticket for it so I don't forget to do the update.


Done :cool:
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby D.A.M.I.E.N. » 16 Feb 2013, 15:58

Ok, I have take a look, but the sounds are not properly used. For instance.. You used "waterfall_deep" for most of the water sounds, and it just doesn't fit. Even volume should be adjusted. Also the blowing wind doesn't fit to this area. If you and Quin agrees, I will tweak those issues and update it then in the SVN.
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby unixfreak » 16 Feb 2013, 18:08

D.A.M.I.E.N. {l Wrote}:Ok, I have take a look, but the sounds are not properly used. For instance.. You used "waterfall_deep" for most of the water sounds, and it just doesn't fit. Even volume should be adjusted. Also the blowing wind doesn't fit to this area. If you and Quin agrees, I will tweak those issues and update it then in the SVN.


I realise waterfall_deep is intended for waterfalls, although the sound fits for me. It just sound's like fast running water, ie; water running through a pipe.

As for the blowing wind, imagine there's a draft coming from somewhere, you typically get that kind of noise in long tunnels/corridors. I thought it might be better than having complete silence.

What volume do you think should be adjusted? I made more use of the radius property using no-pan as you suggested, and it seems to be more effective. By the way, i have changed the settings in the options for master volume and sfx etc... what are the default settings for in-game volumes? Just wondering if the ambient sounds are audible with defaults.

If you want to modify the sounds, feel free to show me what you think would be better :D
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby D.A.M.I.E.N. » 16 Feb 2013, 18:19

If you can, please join rather to chat, so I will be able to provide you quicker feedback about the sounds.

EDIT: Well, if it is not possible, so I will try to answer your questions shortly here.

unixfreak {l Wrote}:What volume do you think should be adjusted? I made more use of the radius property using no-pan as you suggested, and it seems to be more effective.

A lot volumes. I can't answer what volume you should use and where, because it depends on map elements (if there are walls or if it is open area), on type of the sound and that is variable and also depends on personal taste. And most sounds you chose doesn't fit, so at first it would have to be changed, then I could answer this.

unixfreak {l Wrote}:By the way, i have changed the settings in the options for master volume and sfx etc... what are the default settings for in-game volumes? Just wondering if the ambient sounds are audible with defaults.

You mean in options? You should keep default setting, which is 255 for "master" and 255 for "sfx" and then add some sound entities. For instance those ambient sounds are way too much audible with setting you used. That is one of the mistakes.

Example 1.: Chamber -> Usually is used ambient sound with lower volume, because it just complete atmosphere, it's not a case of loud machine or such.

Example 2.: Opened area, roof of building high above, very cloudy weather -> You could hear a stronger wind blowing around your ears, maybe even a stormbolt in afar (lower volume)

Example 3.: Factory in use (inside)-> You could hear lots of sounds from different locations, some loud, some quiet, which makes mix of those sound, so typical atmosphere for factory.

Your map is a different case and describing all details would be more than just for one forum post. Hope it helped to understand a bit more of this sound chapter at least.
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby D.A.M.I.E.N. » 17 Feb 2013, 02:28

Ok, issues with sounds fixed. Updated in repository as r4956. : )

Just few things, so you can later avoid those mistakes: Ambient sounds, in this type of map, are fitting with much lower volume, because there is not much stuff and spaces outside of the map or some grids, fans or hidden chambers or so, so using ambient too loud doesn't fit. The similar about wind, it shouldn't be there at all. Notice sound transitions, how it works with proper radius. In room with lasers is used higher pitched ambient sound, and it is placed on each side, so it actually "plays": "Attention!, now be more careful.". Also, even those separated lasers has its basic sound. But not that loud of course.
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby unixfreak » 17 Feb 2013, 09:57

D.A.M.I.E.N. {l Wrote}:Ok, issues with sounds fixed. Updated in repository as r4956. : )

Just few things, so you can later avoid those mistakes: Ambient sounds, in this type of map, are fitting with much lower volume, because there is not much stuff and spaces outside of the map or some grids, fans or hidden chambers or so, so using ambient too loud doesn't fit. The similar about wind, it shouldn't be there at all. Notice sound transitions, how it works with proper radius. In room with lasers is used higher pitched ambient sound, and it is placed on each side, so it actually "plays": "Attention!, now be more careful.". Also, even those separated lasers has its basic sound. But not that loud of course.


I just checked it out on the svn, that's much better :D
I'll try keep those tips in mind.

Thanks.
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Re: [Map] Cyanide

Postby D.A.M.I.E.N. » 18 Feb 2013, 18:09

You're welcome. I'm glad you like the sound change.
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