[MAP] Suspended: Post-1.4 Fixes

[MAP] Suspended: Post-1.4 Fixes

Postby greaserpirate » 23 Dec 2012, 02:23

There; SVN is working now, and I think it's finished! Mined have been added, along with an obit, and the dizzyness problems should be gone. :)

This map hangs from an arch in the sky, with parkour opportunities around the sides. There are also some lower levels that are more hidden to players above, but open to players on the same level.

It's playable for CTF/DTF/BomberBall, and it has the option for multi (although sigma and kappa bases are fairly close to each other.)
Mostly, it's a CTF map.

Suggestions are welcome!

Update: Thanks Ballistic for taking the time to help and give suggestions! (Btw, should I credit you in this map as well?)

New features:
-Retextured almost completely, according to suggestions, but new details added; too many individual changes to list here, but check it out!
-Jumppad sounds added
-Expanded "wings" of opposing platforms, makes access to side buildings easier & central platform less of a choke point

UPDATE JAN 3:
-Added pipes near playerstarts and replaced arrows on opposite walls with tiles
-Changed weapon placement
-Improved line art on lower level near ramps
-various texturing additions

UPDATE 1.3 JAN 8:
-raised central platform and added ramps, making it less dizzying and more continuous and smooth
-A few texture improvements
-Redid waypoints

Update 1.4 Jan 21: Finishing touches added

Here's a screenshot:
suspendeded.png



OLD video of this map in action:


youtu.be/zCfCAGK-YF8

(By the way, license is CC-BY)
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Re: [MAP] Suspended

Postby TheLastProject » 23 Dec 2012, 13:17

This map looks quite interesting. I'll probably be too lazy to download it myself, but I'll surely play it if I see it hosted on any server. It seems quite cool to play, at least.
Hats, Afros, wings and raptor feet. This game is showing progress indeed.
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Re: [MAP] Suspended

Postby raiden » 23 Dec 2012, 20:02

A map wich seems to make a high use of the movement possibilities in RE, very sophisticated :).
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Re: [MAP] Suspended

Postby Ulukai » 24 Dec 2012, 10:53

Looking very unique and has an interesting flow from what I see on the video. It seems nice and I will give it a testrun later.
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Re: [MAP] Suspended

Postby raiden » 24 Dec 2012, 12:48

I'm sorry Greaser, I had some kind of connection-problems. But I'm still curious about your map. So I'll download it, after coming back to home in some days.
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Re: [MAP] Suspended

Postby ballist1c » 25 Dec 2012, 22:00

This map makes incredible use of RE's movment system, and looks to be one of the best CTF maps ever developed for RE. Would love to see this same level of "flow" in a deathmatch or duel map -
Hey, speaking of which, I still have that old copy of a DM map we started online, with a tunnel between 2 rooms and lava on each side of tunnel. Have you developed this further or can we start this together?
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Re: [MAP] Suspended

Postby greaserpirate » 25 Dec 2012, 23:59

ballist1c {l Wrote}:This map makes incredible use of RE's movment system, and looks to be one of the best CTF maps ever developed for RE. Would love to see this same level of "flow" in a deathmatch or duel map -
Hey, speaking of which, I still have that old copy of a DM map we started online, with a tunnel between 2 rooms and lava on each side of tunnel. Have you developed this further or can we start this together?


Oh yeah, I remember that one :D. I haven't done much with it, since I didn't save before it was destroyed. I'd be happy to work on it again in coopedit.

And thanks for the positive review! :)

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Re: [MAP] Suspended

Postby Dratz-_C » 26 Dec 2012, 17:05

greaserpirate,
I saw the map and video right when you posted it. It looks like the parkour is going to be fun on your map. I haven't tried it yet.
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Re: [MAP] Suspended

Postby ballist1c » 27 Dec 2012, 00:16

Actually after looking around, I have discovered many misaligned textures in this map, and a lot of repetition that I wish to try to break up.
UNFORTUNATELY none of this is possible, since Greaserpirate has applied a texturecull -_-
It's a general rule of thumb to never do a texturecull until you are ABSOLUTELY sure that the map is finished. This map could be improved visually by leaps and bounds. Greaserpirate, please upload a version that does not have a texturecull applied, if you have one. Thanks
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Re: [MAP] Suspended

Postby D.A.M.I.E.N. » 27 Dec 2012, 00:45

ballist1c {l Wrote}:Actually after looking around, I have discovered many misaligned textures in this map, and a lot of repetition that I wish to try to break up.
UNFORTUNATELY none of this is possible, since Greaserpirate has applied a texturecull -_-
It's a general rule of thumb to never do a texturecull until you are ABSOLUTELY sure that the map is finished. This map could be improved visually by leaps and bounds. Greaserpirate, please upload a version that does not have a texturecull applied, if you have one. Thanks


To load all textures, simply use: /exec textures.cfg
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Re: [MAP] Suspended

Postby greaserpirate » 27 Dec 2012, 01:01

ballist1c {l Wrote}:Actually after looking around, I have discovered many misaligned textures in this map, and a lot of repetition that I wish to try to break up.
UNFORTUNATELY none of this is possible, since Greaserpirate has applied a texturecull -_-
It's a general rule of thumb to never do a texturecull until you are ABSOLUTELY sure that the map is finished. This map could be improved visually by leaps and bounds. Greaserpirate, please upload a version that does not have a texturecull applied, if you have one. Thanks


Sorry about the texturecull; I just wanted less hassle navigating through the textures, and I didn't think I'd need any of the other textures later. (Luckily you can bring them all back by adding "exec textures.cfg")

Can you be specific about where you'd like to improve?

(and possibly, could we set up a coopedit match to fix up the map together?)
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Re: [MAP] Suspended

Postby ballist1c » 27 Dec 2012, 01:03

Thanks for that Damien! I will upload a version ASAP, Greaser
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Re: [MAP] Suspended

Postby ballist1c » 27 Dec 2012, 02:56

Hey, sorry about that, I had to go out for dinner, so I decided not to make a new version. Instead I have taken screenshots and also commentated so that you can improve yourself, rather than me giving you strict instructions and a new version.

First, general feedback.

- The layout is, as stated before, excellent, and the parkour opportunities are unparalleled.
- HOWEVER, this map has serious texturing problems:
Do not ever use vscale to make a lowres texture huge in order to fit a huge surface. It looks god-awful, especially when next to some highres
textures.
Gee, you really like those arrows, doncha? Well, I have got some news for you - arrows don't tile very well. At all. Don't use textures like that for
entire walls, or floors. Textures like the arrow ones need to be bordered, and maybe you could use vscroll then to animate them.
Your textures... clash. A LOT. It's not visually appealing - you DONT need to use so many, just use a couple nice highres tiling textures!
For more explanation on that just look below.


Now, screens.

screenshot.0001.png
Ewww. Someone was using allfaces when they shouldn't have been...


screenshot.0002.png
A texture like that should never be applied like that... far too visually distracting and odd-looking. 6 upside-down computer monitors in a row, out of place much? Doesn't tile either...


screenshot.0003.png
This is cringe-worthy right here, those four textures. The biggest clash I have seen so far. Bet you didn't notice this first time around. I'm gonna try and show you all of the areas where you make horrendous mistakes like this. FIX IT. NAO. ;)


screenshot.0005.png
..and again, this time slightly worse. WAY better to create actual pipes stemming from the four sides of the light fixture, going outwards, than to tile like that.


screenshot.0006.png
Ew.


< Continued on next post >
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Re: [MAP] Suspended

Postby ballist1c » 27 Dec 2012, 03:37

screenshot.0009.png
Why not use the lovely fan mapmodel, instead of supersizing an already low-res texture?


screenshot.0011.png
3 problems here. 1 - VERY lowres texture. Low res one shouldnt even be there, just get a nice tileable highres and border it around with a different one. 2 - lowres next to highres is big no-no. 3 - you need to use a different texture for light sources man! Can't all be glowy rectangles and squares. Better yet, delete the light altogether, you have a huge cluster of them near the bases.


screenshot.0013.png
Here. fix the huge clash


screenshot.0015.png
Another tiling issue with that odd texture


screenshot.0016.png
and again, change texture. does not work there


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Re: [MAP] Suspended

Postby ballist1c » 27 Dec 2012, 03:45

screenshot.0017.png
Again, big clash here. Borders, or simplifying - both good ways to end this problem for good


screenshot.0018.png
Different texture needed, and raise the pusher to become an individual object. Look at how other maps texture pushers, ghost or longest yard. Use a scrolling, glowy texture, which scrolls in the direction of the push. Don't forget to add particle effects (tape a la cutec, or fireball a la foundation), and link a sound effect (jumppad1 or jumppad2). For the sfx make sure to set huge radii so that they work correctly.


screenshot.0019.png
This here on rifle platform isn't so bad, just vscale it correctly and indent some of it.


screenshot.0020.png
Nice detailing on the side man! but on the bottom... ew.


screenshot.0021.png
Fix clashing


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Re: [MAP] Suspended

Postby ballist1c » 27 Dec 2012, 03:54

screenshot.0022.png
Clashing!


screenshot.0024.png
Clash here, and why oh why so many of the same MASSIVE lights?


screenshot.0025.png
Here's a suggestion: why not replace the glowy rectangular lights you have slathered everywhere with some cool banners like this? :) Done a lot in other arena shooters, and looks good too.


screenshot.0026.png
Clash. Lights are not a way to add detail; add detail with computer monitors, pipes through wall, actual objects. Big glowy hights everywhere hurts your eyes, and looks repetitive instead of detailed. It works on maps like cutec because the glowy lights are actually very small and not huge.


screenshot.0028.png
Needs different texture, but nice idea with this alpha material. It's good to use alpha on multi-layered space maps, gives a feeling of complexity. Maybe repeat this throughout the map in more areas, like on walkways in the center?


<continued on next (just one more, I promise.. ;))
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Re: [MAP] Suspended

Postby ballist1c » 27 Dec 2012, 03:59

screenshot.0031.png
Good idea to border the pusher, now you are getting it! But border texture does not tile, as you can see it clashes. That is also a poor choice for floor texture as well, far too distracting IMO (ofc). Grab a couple tileable ones and fix it up.


...Phew! Sorry for the massive post-train, I wanted to help a fellow newbie mapmaker out a little more than usual. I also had a ton of time to waste, don't expect me to do this often. Believe it or not, Greaser, there are more clashes in the map then I highlighted, and of course, you choose what changes to actually make. I am sorry for sounding a little pessimistic :P

dont forget dat CCBYSA license :3
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Re: [MAP] Suspended

Postby Evropi » 27 Dec 2012, 16:58

JEEBUS! That sure is some harsh (but constructive) criticism there ballist1c! I agree generally with your points, but I think the clashing is not terribly obvious most of the time, though it sure could be worked on before it is integrated into the Subversion repository.

One thing that greaserpirate could really work on (which ballist1c quite rightly pointed out) is repetition though. Those lights are pretty bad. I think they should be put only in places where they highlight some secret path that would otherwise go unnoticed or something like that. Basically, when designing a map, think like a game designer, not as an artist. They have a psychological effect and tell people to try that path when running away from someone or trying some cool tricks (not uncommon in RE!).
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Re: [MAP] Suspended: UPDATED v1.1

Postby greaserpirate » 31 Dec 2012, 03:56

Updated! It took a while, but I have to say, looking back at the old version, I think it's a huge improvement.

Thanks again for all the suggestions, Ballistic! :) I hope the results are satisfactory. If you have any more suggestions, I'd be glad to hear them.

Evropi {l Wrote}: I think they should be put only in places where they highlight some secret path that would otherwise go unnoticed or something like that. Basically, when designing a map, think like a game designer, not as an artist. They have a psychological effect and tell people to try that path when running away from someone or trying some cool tricks (not uncommon in RE!).


Heh, funny you should mention that. I did add four "secret" hiding spots on the map, near a bunch of lights on each side... I don't know if they're actually useful or not though.

As for drawing attention to parkour opportunities, I might add some kind of indicator if I can figure out the right kind. The two main parkour paths are obvious enough, IMO. But if I added lights to all the possible parkour spots on the map, it would look even more spammed than the original. :D

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Re: [MAP] Suspended: UPDATED v1.1

Postby ballist1c » 31 Dec 2012, 04:32

Evropi {l Wrote}:JEEBUS! That sure is some harsh (but constructive) criticism there ballist1c! I agree generally with your points, but I think the clashing is not terribly obvious most of the time, though it sure could be worked on before it is integrated into the Subversion repository.


Haha, I know I am a harsh critic. I do this so that the person gets my honest opinion, and that other people will critique me in the same way. I would rather be critiqued harshly then let off gently, wouldn't you? :) You can improve more that way.

greaserpirate {l Wrote}:Updated! It took a while, but I have to say, looking back at the old version, I think it's a huge improvement.

Thanks again for all the suggestions, Ballistic! :) I hope the results are satisfactory. If you have any more suggestions, I'd be glad to hear them.


I'm glad you see the difference! I think of texturing a map as sort of painting a house.

If you paint 4 random colors next to each other on the walls, people are gonna walk in and be like, "MAN this house is fugly!"
BUT if you simplify the color scheme or add some white borders with details in the doorways, people will be like, "HOT DAMN!"
A little dramatization there, but you see my point :)

I can tell from the screenies it looks much better! Downloading map now, will respond further tomorrow.
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Re: [MAP] Suspended: UPDATED v1.1

Postby Ulukai » 31 Dec 2012, 11:21

Hey Greaser! I found some time to playtest the new version. You've done a lot of work between v1.0 and v1.1, good job! Nice to see that you have put as much effort in improving it as Ballistic in giving critiques ;) But in many points he was right, so well done to both of you :) I like the details you have put in the geometry and texturing, like for example your screenshot 0220...

I still found some small things you might have looked over, so here they are:
- There are A LOT of weapons everywhere. Try reducing some to keep the game exciting. Not ervybody needs to be able to grab his favorite gun at any given time.
- Some textures still need mirroring.
screenshot.0008.png

- While I like the use of the neon stripes on the floors, I do feel that they are unnecessary on the ceilings and even on some places of the walls. Here and there on walls they look fine and contribute to the general atmosphere, but on other parts it is simply too much on a small place, like the picture below.
screenshot.0009.png

- Also, some parts of the stripes are thicker than others because you selected 2 rows of cubes instead of 1. I don't think it was on purpose since it is not the same everywhere on the map.
screenshot.0007.png


Keep it up and thanks for another enjoyable map!
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Re: [MAP] Suspended: Updated again v1.2

Postby ballist1c » 04 Jan 2013, 21:15

Sorry I could not submit my feedback in time, hope you get in SVN! :)
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Re: [MAP] Suspended: Updated again v1.2

Postby qreeves » 05 Jan 2013, 12:03

I suffer from too much disorientation and vertigo playing this map. I understand that is part of the point of the map, but maybe you could dial it back a bit?
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Re: [MAP] Suspended: Updated again v1.2

Postby greaserpirate » 06 Jan 2013, 06:27

qreeves {l Wrote}:I suffer from too much disorientation and vertigo playing this map. I understand that is part of the point of the map, but maybe you could dial it back a bit?


Understood; I'll try my best. Looking at it again I see I can probably raise the central platform and add ramps instead of jumppads, so it's more of a smooth, continuous surface. Are there any other places that are confusing or dizzying?

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Re: [MAP] Suspended: Probably final update (1.4)

Postby arand » 28 Jan 2013, 13:45

I really like this map, though it does indeed take some time getting used to it (spent a while messing with the rocket :)).
It reminds me a bit of Raiden's Sorn, since it has a lot of elements in it, it feels like a couple of maps baked into one (something I quite like), it's also very big taking into account the total area of all levels and platforms and impulse-paths.

One minor thing that bugs me a bit are the greenlit doors, to me with the current lights they seem as if they should be operational, maybe they could be toned down a bit so that it looks like they are locked(red? )/out of order(less/no light?). Or maybe even there could even be a passage between there, I don't know how much it would mess with the layout for team-affinity games though...
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