[Map] syndicate v1.4

Re: [Map] syndicate v1.1

Postby wowie » 20 Oct 2012, 00:04

I think it would work well either way. The important thing is that it should be clear where playable and non-playable areas are. The ideas so far are arrows to show playable areas, and transparent barriers or (deadly) laser fences to show non-playable areas. I think the best solution would be to combine the two methods, to both indicate optimal parkour paths and indicate proper boundaries.
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.1

Postby raiden » 20 Oct 2012, 13:01

wowie {l Wrote}:I think it would work well either way. The important thing is that it should be clear where playable and non-playable areas are. The ideas so far are arrows to show playable areas, and transparent barriers or (deadly) laser fences to show non-playable areas. I think the best solution would be to combine the two methods, to both indicate optimal parkour paths and indicate proper boundaries.


I think into a similar direction, with some small differences, because I have an idea in mind. I have to test, if my idea will work, before I can tell about. But some of your words will surely find their way into this map. The arrows are ok, but I don' t want to disturb the minimal texturing, which I like very much. Besides that many RE maps are using arrows already. I try to find a fine difference here.
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.2

Postby raiden » 22 Oct 2012, 14:46

I don't know when ballist1c will come up with his version. I still continued to test my idea and could implement it now.
The fighting area is embraced by a deadly forcefield now, caused by a satellite in the sky. The idea was good and has also a connection to the classic games (there were satellite controlled weapons), although difficult to fullfill. I had to connect numerous triggers with the used particles and sound.
Beyond that I added some additional details, but you can look at the changelog or just try it out to spot more.

syndicate 1.2.zip
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    changelog

    changes since 1.1:

    _added an energetic shield to the map: when the player tries to leave the arena, a satellite activates a deadly forcefield around the pit
    _added a big amount of triggers and particles for different effects (small lensflares e.g.)
    _added a satellite and various additional details (flying bordermarks, roofwindows and a bit more)
    _changed clipbox around the map and added some new clips
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.2

Postby ballist1c » 22 Oct 2012, 23:13

I was just about to post my version; however now I have some updating to do. By the way, the more particles you add to the air around the map the harder it will be to create rain particles
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.2

Postby raiden » 22 Oct 2012, 23:49

I'm sorry for that. I had to proof myself that it is possible to realize that idea. Then I saw indeed, it's doable and works. I don't know how much you did already ballist1c. It's the fault of us both. We had to coordinate better.
However, it could be easier to take the 1.2 version, because to link all of these triggers and particles plus sound together is a hell of work. I had to link them apartly. It wasn't possible to link a grouped selection. When you imagine I rate the amount of triggers to around 80 and they had to be linked apartly with 10 entities (9 particles and the sound). So I had to fly around the map 800 times back and forth. :?
Thats why I whished we could have another boxed triggerent. In this case I had only 40 times of flys over the map and this would also be technically the much better soloution.

Ok, I stop the development of the map now for a while to give you the room...
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.2

Postby Ulukai » 23 Oct 2012, 08:54

raiden {l Wrote}:I'm sorry for that. I had to proof myself that it is possible to realize that idea. Then I saw indeed, it's doable and works. I don't know how much you did already ballist1c. It's the fault of us both. We had to coordinate better.
However, it could be easier to take the 1.2 version, because to link all of these triggers and particles plus sound together is a hell of work. I had to link them apartly. It wasn't possible to link a grouped selection. When you imagine I rate the amount of triggers to around 80 and they had to be linked apartly with 10 entities (9 particles and the sound). So I had to fly around the map 800 times back and forth. :?
Thats why I whished we could have another boxed triggerent. In this case I had only 40 times of flys over the map and this would also be technically the much better soloution.

Ok, I stop the development of the map now for a while to give you the room...


Talking about dedication... Phew! I agree that the editor is easy to learn and use, but it's not always the most efficient one :) Will try your version soon.
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.2

Postby raiden » 23 Oct 2012, 11:57

Yeah, all of this to have this result:

forcefield2.jpg
:).

But honestly ballist1c, I know I made it complicate for you and I don't like that, but this is a smart soloution for the design problems that where discussed allready before, isn't it ? :)
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.2

Postby Ulukai » 23 Oct 2012, 12:34

It's looking kick-ass! Very creative way to seal the map, I'm very much in favor of keeping it. Why does there have to be rain in the map? It looks beautiful the way it is...
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.2

Postby S.E.S » 23 Oct 2012, 12:42

To raiden:

You can try, "Agui" to toggle between the "entity" in the search in the "entity group". Perhaps this will help save time.

Screenshot:
screenshot.0018.png
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.2

Postby S.E.S » 23 Oct 2012, 14:31

Supplement:
You can also select an area on the map and switch between selected "entities" (with the selected entity (in game) filter is not working in this moment - only with agui selector). "Agui" uses "entautoview" that allows you not to fly around the map, and immediately switch between the "entity."
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.2

Postby Ulukai » 23 Oct 2012, 15:37

I took a glance at the map and would like to share some feedback :) It's looking spectacular so far and it feels fresh, but some things could be improved.

- The lightmap is 27 atm. Way too big and totally unnecessary. Raise the value so that your lightmap becomes approx. 5.
- Some places like walkways or open floors could use some more details in the texturing. Try to apply some trim or a small heigth variation and apply different textures there.

- These stairs look a bit weird with the same texture as the walls imo. Have you eperimented with other textures?
screenshot.png

- The water disappears under certain pieces of geometry to form a 90° corner instead of following the curved walls. I don't know if this is intentional, but personally I think I would prefer it to follow the walls. It's only a detail and maybe a matter of preference, but I thought I'd mention it anyway :)
screenshot.0001.png

screenshot.0002.png

- You could try to use a blendmap for the parts of the mossy textures under water to make them look slightly different than the parts above the water.
screenshot.0003.png

- The alpha and omega symbols look a bit off. It's a concrete on concrete texture, and yet they don't match. You could try to use the other concrete texture with team symbols on them to make them blend perfectly. Unless you want the symbols to stand out a bit, but you could try to use some trim around it then to make the contrast less noticeable.
screenshot.0004.png
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.2

Postby ballist1c » 23 Oct 2012, 20:56

Ulukai {l Wrote}:It's looking kick-ass! Very creative way to seal the map, I'm very much in favor of keeping it. Why does there have to be rain in the map? It looks beautiful the way it is...


I agree, it does look much better. Only tweak would be to make it a little more transparent as I think it is a little too distracting, and make it go up MUCH higher, as it looks odd when the force field cuts off at the top. It would be better if the particles were in a sphere shape to better simulate a forcefield, but that is probably next to impossible, and this looks much better alre

I never said that there HAD to be rain in the map, I said I would experiment with it, since it is a rare sight in maps

Also, SES's agui is INCREDIBLY helpful with entities; worth downloading if you have not yet, raiden


RE: Ulukai:

I have added more trimpieces around the walkways, especially on the main one from base to base. you !!!!!!!!!!!
I have not used blendmaps before so it might be better for raiden to take a shot at it.

Sorry for the delay, everyone; still am a fulltime student and real life hits me hard sometimes.
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.2

Postby ballist1c » 23 Oct 2012, 20:56

Ulukai {l Wrote}:It's looking kick-ass! Very creative way to seal the map, I'm very much in favor of keeping it. Why does there have to be rain in the map? It looks beautiful the way it is...


I agree, it does look much better. Only tweak would be to make it a little more transparent as I think it is a little too distracting, and make it go up MUCH higher, as it looks odd when the force field cuts off at the top. It would be better if the particles were in a sphere shape to better simulate a forcefield, but that is probably next to impossible, and this looks much better alre

I never said that there HAD to be rain in the map, I said I would experiment with it, since it is a rare sight in maps

Also, SES's agui is INCREDIBLY helpful with entities; worth downloading if you have not yet, raiden


RE: Ulukai:

I have added more trimpieces around the walkways, especially on the main one from base to base. you !!!!!!!!!!!
I have not used blendmaps before so it might be better for raiden to take a shot at it.

Sorry for the delay, everyone; still am a fulltime student and real life hits me hard sometimes.
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.2

Postby Ulukai » 24 Oct 2012, 08:36

ballist1c {l Wrote}:I have not used blendmaps before so it might be better for raiden to take a shot at it.


That's a perfect reason for you to try it: you can learn something from it and you would get better with the editor... ;)
Not forcing you to of course, but try to take a look at it from that perspective. :)
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.2

Postby raiden » 24 Oct 2012, 13:36

Good to be remebered SES :) . Your gui looks quiet interesting, ideed.

Ulukai: your points are good. They touch the taste also, but you are right. Especially the blendmap idea is nice. The geometry could also be changed a bit for a more natural look of the islands. I had that also in mind. Thanks for your hints.

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ballist1c {l Wrote}:... Only tweak would be to make it a little more transparent as I think it is a little too distracting, and make it go up MUCH higher, as it looks odd when the force field cuts off at the top. It would be better if the particles were in a sphere shape to better simulate a forcefield, but that is probably next to impossible...


I don't think that more transparency will be needed. You should see this ingame. I tried many possible ways out, before I started to link everything. There are some areas on the map like in the screenshot, where you can go near the boarder and the effect shows up (without a player death), like a warning. You could try this out, to see what I`ve made.
The blendmap isn`t too difficult. important is to mark the correct texture slot and to choose the most usefull brush and size. I recommend a change between a hard circle, not too big and the soft circle. Probably you`ll need to eraze from time to time ('p' changes the kind of brush). But I would also be happy to rearrange the islands myself :) .
I'm curious about your tuned version.
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.2

Postby Sniper-Goth » 24 Oct 2012, 14:02

So, you did the particles appearing when you get too close to the non playable areas using the trigger entity?
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.2

Postby raiden » 24 Oct 2012, 14:08

Sniper-Goth {l Wrote}:So, you did the particles appearing when you get too close to the non playable areas using the trigger entity?

...partly, yes
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.2

Postby raiden » 29 Oct 2012, 22:21

Ballist1c ? Since the weekend I have an update in the pipeline. I don't know now, publish or not ?
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.3

Postby raiden » 30 Oct 2012, 15:50

:::update:::

Hey,
I went through Ulukai's points now, tried do regard hints from other people and added my own thoughts here, to polish the map. Below I try to reconstruct what I did.

syndicate 1.3.zip
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    changelog

    since 1.2:

    _changed the look of pusher effects a bit
    _numerous geometrical changes, reduced the bloggy look
    _some texture changes
    _added screens, "watertanks" in the ground, use of a blendmap for the islands, texture changes for the stairs e.g., platforms on the waterfallbuildings now, more detailed satellite
    _added some small lights for a better contrast in some areas, curved the entrances a bit
    _added a sonic signal with light for the rocket area, to show the other players that somebody may try to get the rocketlauncher
    _improvements for teamsymbols
    _reduced the use of lightmaps (to 5 now)

(In the editor I could read that quin dislikes glassmaterial :) ? Surely he has his reasons. Nevertheless I used it to use the possibility of integrating glass together with curved edges. Glass has the advantage that I can combine it with buckled cubes, in contrast to the alphamaterial. This seemed to give the best look for me and was my reason to use it. In a case of need I surely I can find another solution.)
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.3

Postby ballist1c » 30 Oct 2012, 17:16

Hi raiden,
I am typing this from my phone, as my family and I have been evacuated to a nearby building because of Hurricane Sandy. I hope to release the update as soon as I realistically can as electricity is practically nonexistent ATM. See you soon
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.3

Postby raiden » 30 Oct 2012, 17:30

ballist1c {l Wrote}:Hi raiden,
I am typing this from my phone, as my family and I have been evacuated to a nearby building because of Hurricane Sandy. I hope to release the update as soon as I realistically can as electricity is practically nonexistent ATM. See you soon


Ooh, good to know that you are ok. I totally forgot, where you live. I could follow the news from time to time and hope that you and your family will not become too much damage, also not at the material things at home. I'll keep my fingers crossed. "Sandy go home and electricty come back". Yeah, we'll see us.
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.3

Postby Ulukai » 31 Oct 2012, 09:24

Nice work raiden, it's looking very complete and really beautiful. Framerates are also very good for a largely outdoor map with such nice effects. Your improvements over v1.2 are clearly visible, I'm happy you could do something with my feedback :) I just did a quick playtest on my laptop from work and it was very smooth, I will test a bit more in depth when I find some time at home. Are all gamemodes supported?

If I can give 2 more comments on your latest version:

- These lights still look blocky and ungraceful in comparison to the rest of the map and the lamp textures are big and unsharp as well. What about improving the geometry a little and using some rectangular shaped lamp textures instead of the square lamps?
screenshot.0005.png

- This texture is used quite excessively across the map. Maybe the colored variants of them could help you distinguish different parts of the map and help indicate in which team's base you are instead of only the team symbols on the walls.
screenshot.0006.png


Other than that, tremendous map! :)
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.3

Postby raiden » 31 Oct 2012, 16:46

The main modes (DM,CTF,DTF and BB) work fine for me with bots. I will try out your suggestions to see what I can do. You give usually good hints, worth to try out, which helps to improve a map. Thank you :) .

:::edit:::

I have implemented Ulukai's last suggestions now. The reason why I'm not updating at the moment is that I wait for ballistic. He surely has other problems yet. But when he shows up what he has, I can see what fits the map and melt it in maybe. Together with the new teamcolored ground, more elegant lamps and possibly more ... this will become the 1.4 version then (hopefully a final ;) ).
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.3

Postby raiden » 09 Nov 2012, 17:26

I don't know if ballistic still works on the map?
I have updates in the drawer since a while and here they come. I don't know exactly, are the framerates ok ? I think I come near the boarder of acceptable frames, especially when I stay on the buildings with waterfalls as a player.

syndicate v1.3_plus.zip
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    v.1.3 plus

    _improved textures: teamcolored ground
    _improved the big lamps to more elegant ones, also better for gameplay
    _added small lights, inside the windows on the roofs
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Re: [Map] syndicate v1.3 plus

Postby Ulukai » 12 Nov 2012, 12:09

Great job! The changes make this map even better. I hope it makes it into the next version.
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