[Map] cutec v1.6

Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby greaserpirate » 29 Jul 2012, 16:42

Is this going to be included? PLEASE TELL ME THIS MAP IS GOING TO BE INCLUDED. It's the best Red Eclipse map the community's ever come up with.

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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby qreeves » 30 Jul 2012, 02:35

greaserpirate {l Wrote}:Is this going to be included? PLEASE TELL ME THIS MAP IS GOING TO BE INCLUDED. It's the best Red Eclipse map the community's ever come up with.

If we can optimise it enough, sure. I don't have that kind of time to invest in it at the moment.
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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby Dratz-_C » 30 Jul 2012, 04:11

Hello raiden,
Since there is nothing playwise that goes on under the floors for us to see, I made the transparent floors opaque and that increased my minimum frame rate by 1 and my average frame rate by 2. Also, I did not experience as many 1 to 2-second freezes. The trim essentially could be done with textures to reduce geometry. It would be an intricate task with the diagonal runs but it could be done.
greaserpirate,
Do you really intend for your information to be too small to read? I made it large enough to see and got the following.
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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby qreeves » 30 Jul 2012, 04:48

I dunno, I was able to read it on my mobile at default zoom. Then again, I have 20/20 vision.
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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby charlie » 30 Jul 2012, 10:20

qreeves {l Wrote}:I dunno, I was able to read it on my mobile at default zoom. Then again, I have 20/20 vision.


Either you're trolling :p or your phone's browser behaves differently to a desktop browser. The text is just a few pixels and thus unreadable. ;)
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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby greaserpirate » 30 Jul 2012, 17:29

charlie {l Wrote}:
qreeves {l Wrote}:The text is just a few pixels and thus unreadable. ;)


Hmm..

I just found out that my browser (Firefox) has some sort of "minimum font size". THat might explain why I couldn't shrink the font.

Sorry for any inconvenience.

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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby TheLastProject » 30 Jul 2012, 18:44

greaserpirate {l Wrote}:I just found out that my browser (Firefox) has some sort of "minimum font size". THat might explain why I couldn't shrink the font.

That must be an add-on or strange setting, as my Firefox does not do that at all.
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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby Dratz-_C » 30 Jul 2012, 22:07

qreeves,
Yes, now I can read it but I think greaserpirate might have just increased the font size. I have 20/15 vision.
greaserpirate,
Take out the blank lines between the text and make the text bigger so folks can easily read it. It should take up the same amount of space.
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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby greaserpirate » 31 Jul 2012, 01:10

Dratz-_C {l Wrote}:greaserpirate,
Take out the blank lines between the text and make the text bigger so folks can easily read it. It should take up the same amount of space.
Cheers


Blank lines? Where? Also, the maximum size for signatures is 50, which it was set to.

Anyway, I'm REALLY sorry this topic got derailed by my signature. :oops:

Also: this map plays alright on my computer. I get about 30-60 fps on Forge and 15-30 fps on the (new) Cutec, which is absolutely worth it. It takes forever to load tho, might have something to do with me keeping a hundred tabs open (usually songs on Youtube) at once though.

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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby qreeves » 31 Jul 2012, 01:26

Yeah, it seems Dolphin has a minimum font size, and I had the same setting in Chrome.

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled programming. Who wants to help fix cutec for me? :P
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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby Dratz-_C » 31 Jul 2012, 09:19

greaserpirate,
Your signature looks much better now.
raiden and qreeves,
I'm thinking of trying my hand at it if only as an experiment to try to increase the framerate. I may need some help later with the custom textures to replace the trim. Also, don't let this discourage other folks from trying to fix it themselves. Someone else might finish it faster than me in any case.
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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby raiden » 31 Jul 2012, 11:08

Thank you for the whole feedback, qreeves, Dratz-_C, greasepirate, ulukai and everyone else.
If we remove the alphalevel on the ground and make it plain, we can replace all the tiny triangles in the edges and cubes on the ground (which I included to let it look better) together with the whole skytextured level. This would probably reduce the amount of details dramatically and no other simplifications would be necessary on the map. This would be pity a bit (to replace the ground), but this could be the way indeed.

In this case the following points would be important:
_the rebuild as described
_finding a nice groundtexture wich fits the overall theme
_rebuild the waypoints for bots (they could be get lost, after the rebuild)
_maybe the detailed ground on the middle platform could be preserved

Ambitious mapper, what do you think ? :)

(I try to get the time for it, but can't promise anything at the moment.)

:::
later the day
...

Ok, I took a first look, how to handle this. I prefer a dark texturing on the ground, similiar to the first versions.
The surrounding neon line would be removed by these steps and the ground would be plain, without the transparent effect into the deep (or a kind of reflection).

To illustrate what I meant:
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screenshot.0015.jpg
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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby Dratz-_C » 31 Jul 2012, 22:31

raiden,
In my opinion the ground will not be enough but the good thing about this process is that it will be a step at a time. I'll first eliminate the trim around the already opaque ground. Then I'll test the map and see how much better it performs. I cannot see your pictures from image shack because of my internet content filter and recommend your attaching them through the forum tool to your post so that I can see them. I will watch for your reply to see whether you have something to say about this that might help me further.
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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby wowie » 01 Aug 2012, 00:02

Hey, question... Can you put the either the 1.01 or 1.02 versions back up in the main post and rename it "cutec_hd_edition" because I think that version still looks too good to throw out. It's art, really. :lol:
I feel like a n00b, posting this.
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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby Dratz-_C » 01 Aug 2012, 06:21

raiden and qreeves,
The trim around the base platforms is gone in favor of a bold stroke replacement. I colored red the red base trim to match the fact that the blue base had such trim. I fixed some geometry errors. I've attached my work from today to this post. Please ignore that the internal name for the map is cutecopti_1-1-4. I meant to type 1-0-4. I'll test it tomorrow and then probably do another fixing session. It is 1:20 AM and I get up at 7:30 so I will see you in a day or so.
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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby raiden » 01 Aug 2012, 10:35

Hey Dratz, I didn't know that I can upload pics by this forum. I still don't know how to do so. Couldn't you simply allow your blocker to show the screenies ? Or I learn to handle this forum a better way :). To work without Image shack would be easier for me, too. However, I have to take a look to your work and maybe I'm able to come up with a try later too. The way I described should free some recources, for sure. I had to make use of many triangles to become the alpha effect (it was a horrible work).
Until later, thanks for your support and take your time ;).

@wowie: the downloads are available on the posts top now, but I haven't renamed any file. Ahh and: the word "noob" is a bit overrated around RE for my taste, everyone has to begin somewhere. So what ? :) .

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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby qreeves » 01 Aug 2012, 10:45

raiden {l Wrote}:Hey Dratz, I didn't know that I can upload pics by this forum. I still don't know how to do so. Couldn't you simply allow your blocker to show the screenies ? Or I learn to handle this forum a better way :). To work without Image shack would be easier for me, too. However, I have to take a look to your work and maybe I'm able to come up with a try later too.

I've found ImageShack to be terrible myself. You can upload pictures with your message by clicking "Upload attachment" below the full post editor (it looks like a tab next to "Options").
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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby Dratz-_C » 02 Aug 2012, 04:29

raiden and qreeves,
I've replaced some intricate trim on the floors of the upper side areas of the bases with bold borders to reduce the triangle count. I've fixed some texture errors. I've also fixed some geometry errors. I've attached below the next version of cutecopti, 1-0-5. I'll test it later as I am tired from yesterday. I reduced the light precision from 32 to 48 to lower the file size from 7 to 5 megabytes and may try 64 in the future. I'll likely work on the map again tomorrow. My strategy will probably be to flatten out the recessed or extruded ornamental trim.
cutecopti_1-0-5.zip

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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby raiden » 02 Aug 2012, 10:00

Thanks qreeves, that makes sense :).

Dratz: I had no time to take a deeper look into 1.0.4, although downloaded it. I will do this now for 1.0.5. I also did my described steps yesterday, without changing the ground of the middle platform. The result was a bit disappointing for me: the saved frames per second where more slightly then I thought.
...
I think your way of optimization is ok. You do it more radical than me- this saves some more frames. Sadly the hiccups as Ulukai descriped before, are still there. The advantage now: the map loads much faster. Let's see what we get...
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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby Dratz-_C » 02 Aug 2012, 11:43

raiden,
Players in the low performance community may be more numerous than one might guess. It is important to test the map with 12 or more players at once. The only way Cutec will become usable for a good percentage of folks is by gaining frames in many small steps of editing. I had fixed the center area before you posted. I'd like to say that in the end the middle ornamentation could be added back but that probably would be dishonest. A platform should be translucent when what once sees through it influences play mechanics. This condition is not the case either of the base or center platforms. However, for the center, there may by a way to lattice over the sky texture and I will look into that possibility but only after I achieve a playable framerate which is also free of 1-to-2-second freezes. Also, I think some of the jump pad trajectories should be changed such that they are more readily useful in play so I will see what I can do for them. I'll see you later today.
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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby Dratz-_C » 03 Aug 2012, 06:00

raiden and qreeves,
Here's version 1.0.6. By using appropriate textures I freed up triangles that were tied up in pads for jumps, weapons and spawns. I also reduced the map file size to 4 megabytes by using light precision 64. Some of the pushers have altered trajectories to make them easier to use. I am aware of the high pusher velocity on the upper sides of both bases. I'll just move the pushers back and aim lower. This should reduce the air time while still getting folks on to the above platform. I will test it tomorrow because I am going off to bed as it is nearly 1AM.
cutecopti_1-0-6.zip
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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby raiden » 03 Aug 2012, 10:52

Ok thanks, I'll take a look at this. I'll have no possibility to test anything over the weekend. So please don't wonder. You are working intense at the moment. To grant yourself some more sparetime would be ok :).

:::::::::

All in all your work is usefull, but there are some points for me:
_The texturing of all pads: weaponpads, spawnpads and jumpers looks not very nice for me, the jumpers e.g. could have 2 levels of scrolltextures, one obove the other (like my screens in "sorn"). I know more details, yes, but still fewer than before. In my opinion something has to happen to let them look a bit more like real pads. A simple soloution of course, but a bit more finesse would be great. It's not for nothing that I put so much effort in these details.
_The upper jumppads are pushing too high in both bases.

All the other changes are comprehensible. Many frames could be saved, the map loads faster and runs smoother. For some reason the framerate still jumps up and down, depending on where you move and look at, but overall this could be improved.
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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby ballist1c » 04 Aug 2012, 00:04

wowie {l Wrote}:Hey, question... Can you put the either the 1.01 or 1.02 versions back up in the main post and rename it "cutec_hd_edition" because I think that version still looks too good to throw out. It's art, really. :lol:
I feel like a n00b, posting this.


+1

No offense, but this is the first map I've seen that comes close to Xonotic's in terms of HD texturing and stuff like that :)

Plus, if I can actually play Xonotic with it's hardware hog engine, I'll have no trouble at all with this right?
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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby Dratz-_C » 04 Aug 2012, 12:31

raiden and qreeves,
I've attached 1.0.7. I've fixed the bases' upper side jump pads as promised. I have plans to further improve 4 jump pads. I also have plans to add more weapons to the center area. I've replaced some intricate trim around the bottoms of the bases with a more efficient equivalent. I believe too much geometry in the base interiors is causing the 1 to 2-second pauses. I'll continue using the wireframe helper to accomplish optimization for the next version.
cutecopti_1-0-7.zip

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Re: [Map] cutec v1.1 latest

Postby raiden » 07 Aug 2012, 13:45

Thank you Dratz, since you are involved into this project, you needn't to write your name in brackets in the readme. Just write it down :p. After calculating the map down, we should rework some texturing (the pads maybe, ...). After changing the light precision, there are some wrong textures to see: the big red triangle entrance in the red base, not a big thing.
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