[MAP] Longest Yard 2000 v3

[ballist1c]

Longest Yard 2000
by Joseph "ballist1c" Calabria + John_III

Yeah, i'm sure everyone knows this, a complete remake/restyle/retex of the map Q3DM17 optimized for RE
(the existing map was ripped from Sauerbraten)

I had fun working with John on this one.


Credits -
ballist1c: complete rescale of the geometry (from scratch) and pushers, some lights, weapon/player spawns
John_III: overall theme, textures, geometry details, some lights


Latest Version Update: Longest Yard 2000 v3
- Both of us worked on a more detailed underside to the map
- Fix pusher sounds
- Revamped item layout after lots of playtesting
- added pusher force to the pushers complained about


screenies:

Download v3 (Latest)

[Evropi]

This map is awesome and you know it, so I'll skip the praises and head straight into the few niggles that keep this map from being truly great.
Note that despite these minor criticisms, I think that The Longest Yard 2000 is ready as it is for inclusion into the project's Subversion repository.

1. You should not be able to stand on the fan.

It should be deadly.

2. These lines suggest death. In all other maps, like Death Trap, these are deadly to touch.

You could maybe put a piece of glass around them. I would really like it if they were retained as they definitely feel 'disco' going along with the rest of the map's current theme, but having them bare may not be the best idea.

3. I think having a line of grenades (plus a mine) makes this map a bit too easy.

I do not have a solution for this, but the very placement of all these grenades makes this a terrible duel map. I'm sure you something out; but as it stands, it would be best if most of these grenades were moved elsewhere, or better yet, removed entirely.

[ballist1c]

This map is awesome and you know it, so I'll skip the praises and head straight into the few niggles that keep this map from being truly great.
Note that despite these minor criticisms, I think that The Longest Yard 2000 is ready as it is for inclusion into the project's Subversion repository.

Thanks for the implied praise bro :P

1. You should not be able to stand on the fan.

Why not? it doesn't impede gameplay, and it certainly isn't a camping spot or anything important.

2. These lines suggest death. In all other maps, like Death Trap, these are deadly to touch.

Yeah, they do in a lot of maps; however if John or I can't find anything stylistically adequate to replace it, then it stays, because it looks good ^^

3. I think having a line of grenades (plus a mine) makes this map a bit too easy.

Well, i followed the original dm17 which had a line of shards and a yellow armour, so I tried to follow it. I agree it makes it a little too OP for duel, maybe mode-specific? or remove them entirely if you think it's better

[Evropi]

1. You should not be able to stand on the fan

Why not? it doesn't impede gameplay, and it certainly isn't a camping spot or anything important.

They make my OCD go into overdrive, dear Joseph.

2. These lines suggest death. In all other maps, like Death Trap, these are deadly to touch.[/size]

Yeah, they do in a lot of maps; however if John or I can't find anything stylistically adequate to replace it, then it stays, because it looks good ^^

Well, I have a recommendation in my post that you could try... but fair enough.

3. I think having a line of grenades (plus a mine) makes this map a bit too easy.[/size]

Well, i followed the original dm17 which had a line of shards and a yellow armour, so I tried to follow it. I agree it makes it a little too OP for duel, maybe mode-specific? or remove them entirely if you think it's better

Instead of mode specific, you should remove at least 2 entirely. It would be bad in team deathmatch or similar as well, come to think of it, and would allow for camping all too easily.

It currently creates a situation similar to what happens on that map they recently added in Xonotic that you play duels with me on; the fact is that the best maps are those that compel you to go all around them, not those that make you want to remain in one spot.

[Dratz-_C]

Hi Ballist1c,
I'm glad you and John_III are done with so much of the map! I'll get back with you when I've evaluated it in the game. [Edit: Here's my advice. The most important of it is in the picture I attached.

longestyard2k.jpg

The less important area is look for right corners and consider replacing them with nice, smooth brush-pasted curves in order to make any geometry that looks okay look excellent.]
Cheers

[ballist1c]

Light update to v2, see above - SniperGoth showed me a clipping glitch ingame, but I wasn't able to replicate it in editmode no matter how I tried; hopefully it is either absent or apparent to people and they can tell us. ^^

[Evropi]

Right, I played a bit more of this map and have more recommendations, mostly pertaining to the placement of weapons (particularly grenades).

First of all, I realised that you can actually shoot through the laser bridges which adds a lot to both the 'exposed' feeling on the map and to the gameplay as well. This led me to consider another point... read on for more. By the way, Dratz's proposition for making them seem more like bridges rather than deadly lasers is outstanding. It wouldn't really make sense as there are no lights for them to come out of if they are cross-hatched, but oh well.

Secondly, I think the underside of the platforms is sloppily textured. Players are bound to fall off this map a lot; please improve it!


On to weapons. There are 2 flamers, which is very uncommon for a small map. I know that symmetry counts, but if you can find another place to put it, please do so (and read on).

There are two grenade spawns on each side of the second platform, placed immediately next to each other. I think this would be a disaster for duels. I'm not sure about removing it altogether, but I would do a complete re-arrangement of weapons based on principles from the original The Longest Yard. I think at least one of the two sets of grenade spawns should be moved to the middle of the 'bridges', where players are more vulnerable. I am saying this on the basis of my esteem for grenades; I consider them the most powerful weapon in the game (after the rocket, of course).

The third platform currently feels quite bare. Why not place two shotgun spawns there?

I think you should arrange the first platform similarly to how it is arranged in the original The Longest Yard, but without grenades and mines and a single flamer rather than an SMG in front of the pusher that leads to the far-off platform you get the rifle from. I would keep grenades on the third platform as they are as of v2. You don't want to make a single section too powerful; this map is prone to camping, especially on the likes of duel and survivor.

If all these suggestions for the weapons are taken into account at the same time, I think we would have a better Longest Yard 2000!

[Dratz-_C]

...By the way, Dratz's proposition for making them seem more like bridges rather than deadly lasers is outstanding. It wouldn't really make sense as there are no lights for them to come out of if they are cross-hatched, but oh well....

Make a little flying laser housing out of minimal geometry. Paste and mirror it as needed. The whole map is flying anyway.
Cheers

[Ulukai]

Looking very very nice, although I agree with all the suggestions made aobve me. Making the light bridge a bit more recognizeable as Dratz suggested is a good idea.
I'm glad this map has finally be revamped because it started to look very outdated indeed.

Great job you 2!

[Unnamed]

Looking very very nice, although I agree with all the suggestions made aobve me. Making the light bridge a bit more recognizeable as Dratz suggested is a good idea.
I'm glad this map has finally be revamped because it started to look very outdated indeed.

It was also scaled way too small.
Now the geometry is much better and it looks nice.
I like that you can shoot trough these bridges. If something looks deadly, there's just one way to find out (dieing once isn't a big problem)
I noticed that the underside of the platforms has just one texture. The underside of the central platform should have better texturing.

Great job you 2!

agree

[qreeves]

+1 - kinda sad I'm living in my car again and can't really test it at the moment.

[Ulukai]

+1 - kinda sad I'm living in my car again and can't really test it at the moment.

Aw that sucks No troubles between Cinta and you I hope?

[qreeves]

No, we live separately. House I was in got over crowded with very stressful individuals, had to leave before I went nuclear meltdown.

Note: this map is in svn for those looking to try it.

[Sniper-Goth]

You didn't even care to save the map when we went online and i fixed it, huh ballistic.

Everything's still present for me.

[Ulukai]

Fantastic looking map, but except from the other suggestions made here already I would like to add 2 more, both concerning pushers.

The panels you used don't really make you think it is a pusher... Try a vent with smoke and sound, a fan or another texture?

You could add some light effect or particle effect when triggered to those pushers.

[Dratz-_C]

Hi Ballist1c (and/or John_III),
Many people are grateful for your committing to working on longestyard2k. In order to finish the job and get it through testing you will have to make it a smidgen better. The pusher to the sniping platform and the 2 pushers going back do not push you far enough to bridge the gap. Instead they kill you just before you make the landings. There is really no excuse for this when upping the pusher values a little would fix it and cause no other problems. It's 1 number for the 3 pushers and you're done. It is very easy to fix. In a game online you said that you didn't want to fix this because the problem didn't exist and when I showed you that it did you said that "99% of players impulse" so you still would not fix it. So I asked the other player in the game, FaTony, whether he thought it should be fixed and he said yes. Can you please listen to your testers and just fix the push values? I don't like making a pain of myself; I try only do it when I really have to and this is one of those times. I would like to thank you in advance for your necessary accommodation.
Cheers

[Sniper-Goth]

Hi Ballist1c (and/or John_III),
Can you please listen to your testers and just fix the push values? I don't like making a pain of myself; I try only do it when I really have to and this is one of those times. I would like to thank you in advance for your necessary accommodation.
Cheers

+1

[qreeves]

I will clarify, the pushers actually need to be able to push someone to the destination without any assistance from the player. So yeah, you need to fix that. The maps I added were done hastily while I briefly had broadband access (and outside to boot, was using gamma 200).

[ballist1c]

v3 released.

[Dratz-_C]

Thanks Ballist1c!
Cheers

[quintux_v]

Tried parkouring up the wall here, had issues w/ angled geometry. Clip, maybe?

As for the bridges, maybe an edge containing the lines would look less deadly, I agree that improvement is still needed. Good remake.