Player/Weapon Upgrades, Expansion of Editing Mode

[favorito]

Needless to say, two of Red Eclipse's huge selling points are 1) the real-time [multiplayer] editor, as has been the case in all Cube Engine 1/2 games, and 2) the variable system (world and weapon). Taking these two "pillars" of the game and further incorporating them could take the project to whole new dimensions.

I do understand there may be substantial need of rewrite should we actually wish to pursue them -- and so on that front they may be too unrealistic -- but it never hurts to daydream. As the community, it's our job to hit Quin over the head with ideas... right, Quin??

Idea #1) Some mutator that allows an individual or a team to purchase upgrades during the fight at a cost of points. During the interlude period of a match of team survivor, for example, the team could vote to collectively change the specs of their loadout. When I say upgrades, think clip size, projectile speed or behavior, explosion radii, reload times, etc.. The same could be applied to the player (hit points, speed, impulse costs, etc.). Think One Must Fall: 2097's tournament mode or the weapon upgrade system in Konami's Coded Arms.

#1a) This is sort of subsidiary to idea #1, and is much more... involving, from the coder's point of view, but I'll bring it up anyway. Expanding on #1, there could be an entire mode dedicated to this upgrade system. While in #1 these upgrades were temporary, only lasting until the end of the match (almost Rogue-like-esque in that way -- you play many times over from scratch, but there is progression despite of that within those play sessions), #1a would entail lasting stats. You'd join a "tournament" mode server and play with your leveled up guy, with his own specs (involving him and his guns). This really would be like Coded Arms then. I know we have sort of a quasi-account system... I'd imagine this to be some extension of that.

#2) Again similar to #1, but on a different front. A new style of maps would emerge that'd be a mix between a new, empty editing map in Red Eclipse, a new world in Minecraft, and Starsiege: Tribes in that it's a largely empty, outdoor arena. This mode would take place in phases, much like the games in the Tower Defense genre. A match would consist of two: "construction" and "play" . The former would let the players fly around and make rudimentary changes to the geometry. You'd, in effect, be building your own bases. When the construction phase ends, the play one would begin (which would be the pursuit of some objective, like normal: CTF, team deathmatch, Bomberball, etc.).

Again, these ideas are much larger in scope from a coding point of view, but I thought it'd be a fun conversation to have, and one that might be conducive to some good ideas. What do you guys think?

[Sniper-Goth]

Uh...... nope. I don't think that upgrades would work. The base editing idea would not work as well, as not everyone is a mapper.
Add that the fact that people never play gauntlet, and most of the time are only in instagib..
RE is a casual arena shooter game, lets keep it that way, shall we?

[favorito]

Uh...... nope. I don't think that upgrades would work. The base editing idea would not work as well, as not everyone is a mapper.
Add that the fact that people never play gauntlet, and most of the time are only in instagib..
RE is a casual arena shooter game, lets keep it that way, shall we?

Well, as far as the former goes, I'm not advocating we do away with everything we have. This would be one mutator among many, just as all the others are. I love how RE plays now, I certainly don't want what works and is incredibly fun to disappear.

Regarding the latter, the mapping elements I had in mind are -- as I said -- rudimentary. You wouldn't need to be a seasoned level designer to play. It'd be a dropping down of cubes and other shapes to a limited extent.

Both ideas are grandiose, though. I was looking to others to direct and shape these... or shoot them down. On that note, we'll see if your response is representative of the rest of the community. : ) I'm only looking for critique.

[greaserpirate]

I'm all for the base defense idea, it's one of the few original yet solid ideas in FPSes, and RE's editor seems like it was made for it.

In fact, wouldn't it be possible to do this already? You could have a (possibly timed) coopedit session on a small blank map with a 2-D layout painted with bright tiles, and flags in the middle of large tiled areas on either side. The rules would be:

1) No editing on the other team's side of the map (this includes the airspace above and the ground below)
2) No removing or noclipping cubes from the tiled areas
3) No building structures, or placing entities* not already present, on the tiled floor or up to, say, 8 starting cubes above
4) No pushers, rockets, invisible walls, invisible death material, teleporters, or obnoxious particle FX. Ladder clip will also not be allowed since you can use it to gain ridiculous momentum almost instantly
5) Maximum 5 grenades per team
6) No moving the flag
7) No spawn points past the flag or higher than 16 starting cubes above the ground
7) some maps will have a central area bordered by green tiles which you must treat just like it belonged to the other team; this includes moving items which are inside the borders

(*lights don't count as entities)
besides that, everything is fair game: lava, noclip, doors, triggers (as long as they say "press E to interact" and don't kill you instantly or do obnoxious things), towers, you name it.

Then, (maybe after calclighting), the admin would save the map and start a CTF match on it. If the maps turn out to be really fun, you could share it here

I gotta make my own thread for this..

[favorito]

I appreciate the thoughtful reply. : )

Along those criteria you have listed out, we could really limit the editing to the extent we desire. My mentioning of "cubes and other shapes" was sort of alluding to this.

If you write out more in another thread, I'll be sure to take a look!

I'm all for the base defense idea, it's one of the few original yet solid ideas in FPSes, and RE's editor seems like it was made for it.

In fact, wouldn't it be possible to do this already? You could have a (possibly timed) coopedit session on a small blank map with a 2-D layout painted with bright tiles, and flags in the middle of large tiled areas on either side. The rules would be:

1) No editing on the other team's side of the map (this includes the airspace above and the ground below)
2) No removing or noclipping cubes from the tiled areas
3) No building structures, or placing entities* not already present, on the tiled floor or up to, say, 8 starting cubes above
4) No pushers, rockets, invisible walls, invisible death material, teleporters, or obnoxious particle FX. Ladder clip will also not be allowed since you can use it to gain ridiculous momentum almost instantly
5) Maximum 5 grenades per team
6) No moving the flag
7) No spawn points past the flag or higher than 16 starting cubes above the ground
7) some maps will have a central area bordered by green tiles which you must treat just like it belonged to the other team; this includes moving items which are inside the borders

(*lights don't count as entities)
besides that, everything is fair game: lava, noclip, doors, triggers (as long as they say "press E to interact" and don't kill you instantly or do obnoxious things), towers, you name it.

Then, (maybe after calclighting), the admin would save the map and start a CTF match on it. If the maps turn out to be really fun, you could share it here

I gotta make my own thread for this..

[bonifarz]

A little brain storming about new game features is not bad thing, indeed. The ideas presented here (RTS elements like classes/upgrades and base construction) do remind me of Tremulous, though. I think RE does work perfectly for the route that has been chosen, as a casual arena shooter with a great movement system. (Speaking of "upgrades" and cool moves... is the code snippet for the selfhitpush [hookshot] still around?)

Concerning upgrades and/or classes, something similar was tried earlier with a league mutator, and complex mods like killer mode have been implemented by players already. So, maybe some things can be tried without bothering the devs much.

About the awesomeness of real time editing and its use for dynamic gameplay: I have the feeling that, in case the transition to the tesseract engine will be made one day, RE will have some great potential for destructible environment elements. Maybe a material tag could be used to mark certain geometry elements as destructible, so they could be worn down or broken into movable bits using weaponry or other tools. I can imagine experiments with such things in MechArcade. Ideas come up very easily, but implementing such features can require immense efforts.

[Silux]

Idea #1) sometimes i indeed feel the lack of permanent upgrades, but i feel some advancement just by learning new moves and weapons.
There could be some modes that upgrade the weapons or movement of a team after a while or if players of a team get some objects.