FreeGameDev

With the new settings I posted for v1.2, I made a change to the grenade primary fire so that, instead of bouncing off of objects and walls they explode on impact instead. I've since see several complaints that this makes it too much like the rocket. My reasoning is this: RE is so fast paced, the bouncing ends up being more of a hinderance than a help (unless you want to shoot around corners). How should we make them behave?

Fragging someone after 2 bounce around a corner was to enjoyable to be removed.

And grenades have to be cooked to keep being fun

Imo, hitting a person at far-enough-not-to-kill-you range with a grenade requires so much skill that you really shouldn't be denied a kill.

Also, all weapons need hindrances. If a weapon takes to skill to use, it's not fun. I agree scaling up the grenade's power is a worthy endeavour, but I think the best way would be to increase the blast radius.

TBH, I enjoyed the way the nades were already. The whole impact on geometry sounds ok, but I've basically trained myself around bouncing nades. It takes a lot of skill to do. And if you can time it right, you can become beast with grenades (like me). I'd love for the nades to stay the same way they were in v1.1.

qreeves {l Wrote}:With the new settings I posted for v1.2, I made a change to the grenade primary fire so that, instead of bouncing off of objects and walls they explode on impact instead. I've since see several complaints that this makes it too much like the rocket. My reasoning is this: RE is so fast paced, the bouncing ends up being more of a hinderance than a help (unless you want to shoot around corners). How should we make them behave?

Honestly, I pretty much never use the grenade primary. I strongly prefer the secondary. But I think having grenades explode on impact would make them too powerful. The challenge in using the grenade is timing. I think that if they explode on impact, then they'll be too easy to use.

What about using the sticky as the primary and using a proximity mode for the secondary? By proximity mode I mean that you throw the grenade, it sticks, and it explodes when someone comes close to it. Like a proximity mine. That way you could set up traps

Edit: Oh man, I just had a great flashback of playing Goldeneye 64 with my brother and actually maxing out the number of proximity mines the engine would permit. Those were good times. We should have written a book on the tactical use of proximity mines.

I'm on the bandwagon of keeping it the same. I think that the 'nades would function way too much like rockets. Though we can do this already with a well timed cook. Though that however, is the point. The skill lies in timing the cook and getting the bounces right. That's just what I'd personally want. I like the satisfaction of getting someone on that lucky/random bounce or toss, and just being able to get the strategic bounce off the doorframe into someone's face :)

ZeroKnight {l Wrote}:I'm on the bandwagon of keeping it the same. I think that the 'nades would function way too much like rockets. Though we can do this already with a well timed cook. Though that however, is the point. The skill lies in timing the cook and getting the bounces right. That's just what I'd personally want. I like the satisfaction of getting someone on that lucky/random bounce or toss, and just being able to get the strategic bounce off the doorframe into someone's face

OMG, have you seen my bounces? That one game, it might have been during the FT clan match, I got one nice ass bounce on Keystone around one of the far wall pillars in front of spawn room on someone. Those moments just make you go "I'm soo freaking 1337!!!"

Haha, just as well I changed my mind and decided to poll it. I'm starting to see your points. Let's see how this vote turns out, I guess

qreeves {l Wrote}:Haha, just as well I changed my mind and decided to poll it. I'm starting to see your points. Let's see how this vote turns out, I guess

This actually reminds me of a grenade mod someone did on a Halo server back when I used to play. The nades were thrown superfast, almost instantaneous, immediately after the animation. And they hit whatever surface your crosshair was on. It was funny, cause as soon as you saw someone, half a second later, they were dead. But of course this was just a server mod.

orbitaldecay {l Wrote}:

qreeves {l Wrote}:With the new settings I posted for v1.2, I made a change to the grenade primary fire so that, instead of bouncing off of objects and walls they explode on impact instead. I've since see several complaints that this makes it too much like the rocket. My reasoning is this: RE is so fast paced, the bouncing ends up being more of a hinderance than a help (unless you want to shoot around corners). How should we make them behave?

Honestly, I pretty much never use the grenade primary. I strongly prefer the secondary. But I think having grenades explode on impact would make them too powerful. The challenge in using the grenade is timing. I think that if they explode on impact, then they'll be too easy to use.

What about using the sticky as the primary and using a proximity mode for the secondary? By proximity mode I mean that you throw the grenade, it sticks, and it explodes when someone comes close to it. Like a proximity mine. That way you could set up traps

Edit: Oh man, I just had a great flashback of playing Goldeneye 64 with my brother and actually maxing out the number of proximity mines the engine would permit. Those were good times. We should have written a book on the tactical use of proximity mines.

I actually have to say that the proximity mode grenade would be kind if interesting, especially from a tactical point of view. It may be difficult to balance properly though. For now, I actually use the primary about half the time, it is better for when you miss your target by a few inches because half the time it will bounce back at the target or even hits another target instead, so I am going for the original 1.1 grenades.

Proximity mines sound interesting, but I see myself already spawning in a circle of fire, when playing arena-ffa-dm.

I'm lacking of effective ideas of how to prevent that. One would be though, to limit the number a player can lay out.. like if the max is 2, and you put the 3rd, the 1st disappears - but that doesnt grab the problem at the root.

Another attempt would be, to make weapon behaviour different in team games and ffa-games. That would require more changes than just the grenades, though, but it would allow to develop weapon effects for one or another. If we get more ideas for tactical weapons, that might become interesting, as all these will be easy to misuse in ffa-matches, I guess.

Yep remind me good old Halflife 1 Deathmatch
Learning exact position of all spawn to drop mines. Really annoying

Still is a interesting idea for CTF. Maybe an extra weapon to just spawn in CTF gametype (like in Unreal, some weapons are gametype specific, and there is already a entity parameter for this in Red-Eclipse)

You may also have other guns gametype specific,
like a healing gun to help frag carrier,
a weapon that slow every ones in a certain area (limited ammo),
a sticky grenade that heal everyone in it area of effect,
an energy wall that block an area by pushing backward for a certain amount of time (to slow down your follower when you run the flag)
etc...
(all this things may be done easily with cvars, except the proxy-mine that may require extra dev.)

May add a bit more tactic to teamplay

I like the idea of grenades bouncing of the geometry and exploding on impact of a player. I mean its already very difficult to hit a player with a grenade. But also adding the ability to stick to a player if you use secondary would be amazing. It would take skill to use. but while also being a fairly easy weapon to use if not looking for perfect shots every time.

Now as proximity mines go. I feel like using the secondary grenade function is already a close comparison to a proximity mine. but more difficult to use too I guess considering you still have to cook it. but if it didn't cook and stuck to things and if someone got within a certain distance it would glow for about a second then explode. ("proximity" cooking)

I feel like the bouncing/tragectory part of the pri fire makes it a grenade. If you made it explode on contact, its a rocket. i do like the sticky ideas above.

Grenades seem relatively weak. Making them explode when hitting a player or letting them stick on the player and then explode after a second or so would probably make it a more viable weapon. Exploding when hitting a wall, as said before me, would just make it a rocket.