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In my opinion I think map Dawn is the best looking map in Red Eclipse. It seems almost perfect for all gametypes. With this said, I was wondering if there was a way for server admins to change their settings so that players can vote maps that aren't in the rotation. Because as it stands, most of the servers say this when voting a map not in the cycle: "access denied, you need to be admin to select maps not in the rotation" which is annoying because I think all players should be able to experience Dawn as a map. It is beautiful if you make use of all high settings on full resolution. Is that map in beta or something cause I've noticed with any gametype you choose, it doesnt show up in the rotation.

Personally, the map to me seems like a Search and Destroy map so I would prefer Team - Arena - Survivor - Deathmatch because it just works. Most people would just choose instagib

Dawn is extremely large, and plays poorly on most computers. It was kept because it is indeed a good map, but it wasn't put in the default rotation to avoid trouble with the general population.

This is controlled by the mapslock variable (default: 3) [0 = off, 1 = master can select non-allow maps (+1 admin), 3 = master can select non-rotation maps (+1 admin), 5 = no map selection]. The "allow" maps are stored in the variable allowmaps and each mode has its own rotation variable, mainmaps (for DM, etc), capturemaps, defendmaps, bombermaps, holdmaps (for hold-bomber), trialmaps, and campaignmaps. If mapsfilter is enabled, mutators will also filter these lists through duelmaps, and hovermaps.

Lol i've noticed. I got a bit of lag when we were on it a couple days ago when it was 4 players and 6 bots..

qreeves {l Wrote}:Dawn is extremely large, and plays poorly on most computers. It was kept because it is indeed a good map, but it wasn't put in the default rotation to avoid trouble with the general population.

Usually I have more lag on Venus than on Dawn ... Does anyone know why? Maybe the water & grass?
BTW, I run RE always with graphics setting at full (high), but for Venus I need to turn off most of the options .

fluxord {l Wrote}:Usually I have more lag on Venus than on Dawn ... Does anyone know why? Maybe the water & grass?
BTW, I run RE always with graphics setting at full (high), but for Venus I need to turn off most of the options .

Yeah, the grass and water can be quite intensive. More often than not it is the grass detail.

well thats funny, i never have problems with venus or any other map lol. sometimes when i record on Deli. but its a big map. Dawn would definitely lag mostly, but most of the other maps i seem to run fine. I run low-med settings most of the time (some greens and yellows because im a sucker for aesthetics).

Dawn is the perfect one for more-tactical style (lower speed, a little bit more powerful weapons, more weapons and others), on which I will be working

Myself, I have no problems running any of the maps, and indeed Dawn is very beautiful (in my opinion Deli is the best-looking map at the moment; looks a bit like DE:HR with all the gold colors), but I have one complaint: the ladders are very glitchy to climb. If this is fixed, I'm all for the map to be added to the master servers... even on my 3-year-old iMac it doesn't lag at all if you turn the settings down.

Most likely the lag comes from the sheer scale of the map (it's probably one of the biggest maps) and the extremely detailed trees. Not sure how this could be optimized for slower computers, but by all means let's work towards it, the map deserves the be in the game...

Also: any chance of importing some maps from Sauer if their creators are okay with it? Haven't looked into this myself but it would be nice to play RE on nmp8 or who knows, maybe even venice

fawstoar {l Wrote}:Also: any chance of importing some maps from Sauer if their creators are okay with it? Haven't looked into this myself but it would be nice to play RE on nmp8 or who knows, maybe even venice

This reminds me..My clanmate helped me import a map from Blood Frontier called Bloodgrounds. He said something about a copyright, which is the reason it's not in the game. Upsets me a bit because it was by far the best map I've played between both Red Eclipse and Blood Frontier. Its small, easy to play on, but on the downside, its probably only good TDM, FFA, and maybe DTF.

The map was in the RE Beta, but never included in the full release. I'm guessing because right before the release, the devs must have seen the copyright? IDK, I just wish that map could be in the game for online purposes.

inpersona64 {l Wrote}:This reminds me..My clanmate helped me import a map from Blood Frontier called Bloodgrounds. He said something about a copyright, which is the reason it's not in the game. Upsets me a bit because it was by far the best map I've played between both Red Eclipse and Blood Frontier. Its small, easy to play on, but on the downside, its probably only good TDM, FFA, and maybe DTF.

The map was in the RE Beta, but never included in the full release. I'm guessing because right before the release, the devs must have seen the copyright? IDK, I just wish that map could be in the game for online purposes.

Sounds interesting, never played BF myself so I wouldn't know it. Quin, would importing maps from said games be possible? If they're made by the artist from BF I doubt it, due to copyright tomfoolery, but if possible let's do it. New maps are always exciting!

Another side question: what's the status of the "alphacampaign"? I've flown around that map a couple times and it looks far from finished, but is this in the works, or is it somewhat abandoned for now?

"bloodground"s was a Q3 map remake (like longestyard), there were no copyright complaints (iD has never seemed to mind tribute maps in small games like ours), it was just a map we had that we kept trying to fix without much luck, so I pronounced it dead and culled it to make way for some of our better maps. Wicked was the "remake" artist who made that map, and "bloodgrounds" was basically his second ever map, and if you look at his later maps like "stone" (which he created every texture for), you'll see why I encouraged him rather than just reject his work, he became an excellent artist while with us. Unfortunately he doesn't have much time for RE any more (it isn't uncommon for people to come and go and sometimes return in FOSS projects).

It is completely and totally possible to import maps from both Blood Frontier, just rename the map file from ".bgz" to ".mpz". Red Eclipse is just a continuation of the same engine, which is why the version numbers continued from BF. The trick will be textures, because for most of the old BF maps they were using Acord's textures (which, let's admit, weren't as good as the open source assets we have now), who retained his copyright fiercely on all his assets (so yeah, don't try a direct import of any of his maps either). Apart from the trak5 set, Sauerbraten doesn't share any textures with RE either, but RE fully supports all compatible Sauerbraten map data, the exception being some entities that don't translate over and the "gameclip" material, which is "aiclip" in RE and serves a different purpose.

I've found a good trick is run "/texturecull", save the map, edit the config and replace all the textures with "textures/blank" and give them all a different "texcolor". This will give you a map that has shades of flat textures, you can then "/exec textures.cfg" and start replacing all the textures with ones we have. This is basically what we did when we forked off and started using only open source assets. It was indeed tough, and some maps still haven't fully recovered (I look at you, "forge"), but it's a start if you're that keen on it

fawstoar {l Wrote}:Another side question: what's the status of the "alphacampaign"? I've flown around that map a couple times and it looks far from finished, but is this in the works, or is it somewhat abandoned for now?

The campaign idea was originally Acord's idea for Blood Frontier, LuckyStrike made "alphacampaign" as a sort of testing ground, probably in the hopes that I would continue work on it. Personally, I've always been more interested in the multiplayer aspect of RE myself, and am at a loss as how to balance the great gameplay we've developed with something like campaign (kind of the same issue I have with "league").

Think about it, we're all super-parkour-men running around the map and flying up walls. How the heck do you make human vs. Ai engaging in that circumstance? Sure, I can make it difficult by piling on the beefed up Ai, but that doesn't exactly mean fun. Or I could remove some of the special moves, but then it isn't really RE. Ideally there'd be a developer around with the skills and desire to work on that aspect, but my game design speciality is human vs. human combat, and RE is tuned very specifically to that end.

qreeves {l Wrote}:Ideally there'd be a developer around with the skills and desire to work on that aspect, but my game design speciality is human vs. human combat, and RE is tuned very specifically to that end.

I'm sure you've been told this a million times, and I've probably said this once or twice in my videos, but I'll say it again:
YOUR GAME IS AWESOME!

inpersona64 {l Wrote}:

qreeves {l Wrote}:Ideally there'd be a developer around with the skills and desire to work on that aspect, but my game design speciality is human vs. human combat, and RE is tuned very specifically to that end.

I'm sure you've been told this a million times, and I've probably said this once or twice in my videos, but I'll say it again:
YOUR GAME IS AWESOME!

Seconding that. I've never seen anything quite like RedEclipse.

Never seen anything like it? Many games have a similar settings and style and even faster gameplay, such as Nexuiz and War$ow.

qreeves {l Wrote}:Think about it, we're all super-parkour-men running around the map and flying up walls. How the heck do you make human vs. Ai engaging in that circumstance? Sure, I can make it difficult by piling on the beefed up Ai, but that doesn't exactly mean fun. Or I could remove some of the special moves, but then it isn't really RE. Ideally there'd be a developer around with the skills and desire to work on that aspect, but my game design speciality is human vs. human combat, and RE is tuned very specifically to that end.

Additionally, a map for Singleplayer mode takes more time to make and needs more map-models, enemy models, etc... Plus few people may actually play it. And once you've finished (playing) a map, the fun time is over (this happens in most games)

Phy83r0pt1k {l Wrote}:Never seen anything like it? Many games have a similar settings and style and even faster gameplay, such as Nexuiz and War$ow.

Are you a troll?
Sure they may have nicer graphics/maps/models/sounds, but the gameplay on Nexuiz/Xonotic and Warsow doesn't even come close to RE's.
Nexuiz/Xonotic plays more like a Quake clone and Warsow's gameplay is similar to Unreal Tournament's. Nothing new, nothing original, enough said.

The gameplay in RE is unique, think about this:

1. pick a weapon and have unlimited ammo.
2. health recovery, there are no health/armor/ammo items.
3. impulse moves: wall run, wall kick, dash, powerslide, etc.

Once you have weapons you are ready, no need to jump around the map looking for pointless items (ammo/armor/health).
In RE you get straight to what matters: fragging.

I agree with Stiva, I've never seen anything like it.

Lol, you might be overreacting a little, fluxord. Nexuiz really can't be compared to Red Eclipse (it's much too slow), but Phy88r0pt1k has a point in bringing up War$ow (although I confess that all I know about it is from gameplay videos).

I'm not overreacting, I just wanted to point out that RE has a quite unique gameplay compared to what other FPS have to offer. BTW, Warsow's gameplay is similar to the Unreal Tournament series' gameplay, so nothing new really.

fluxord {l Wrote}:I'm not overreacting, I just wanted to point out that RE has a quite unique gameplay compared to what other FPS have to offer. BTW, Warsow's gameplay is similar to the Unreal Tournament series' gameplay, so nothing new really.

I do second that statement, I've played alot of FPS games and Red Eclipse is unique in any aspect. I do believe this game is going somewhere. And when it does, we'll all be part of that community that was around when it first started. And I like that feeling.

yea, but those of us who were here when it really did start in march and before that when it was BF dont feel that way. not that i'm speaking for others, just myself.

LOL, I played RE when it was BF (in may 2010).
I like how it looks & feels now, and I hope it gets somewhere.
I also do hope that more mappers from the Sauerbraten community make maps/mapmodels for RE.

Back to Dawn map, I think its quality is terrific and I like to do some offline training with it because there are many different elements. True, it's really big so it could be possible to make two really good smaller maps splitting it in two.