Weapon Balance: Rifle Problem + Solution

[Dratz-_C]

ballist1c and other Galactic Edition users,
Because I was asked for a video (now in 720p), I attached one to my post above.
Cheers

[ballist1c]

Wow, thanks very much Dratz! This new taper method looks great to me, thanks for the detailed video!
I still think, however, that the adelay value should be slightly increased to 1000, and rdelay slightly decreased to 1500. I am not so sure about the clip size decrease now, though. What do you think?

[Dratz-_C]

ballist1c,
The new rifle taper method at the default value of 224 already stops the point blank explosion/splash. I think tripling the length of the taper takes care of the consistent close and middle range splashspamming. Your suggestions may be good. I have not had the time to test them yet. I just wish that you could use your Red Eclipse user folder to retain your settings to the svn and then back again. Then we could really try out our ideas against eachother. I will post more when I have time. For now it is off to the YMCA. I might be able to post a higher-grade version of the video later as well. We shall see.
Cheers

[qreeves]

You can use more than one copy of Red Eclipse concurrently by using the "-h" command line parameter. In SVN use "redeclipse.bat -hhome" and it will create a "home" folder inside the Red Eclipse SVN directory (this is what I do, so it is already set up to ignore it too!).

[Dratz-_C]

ballist1c,
I have updated the rifletaperin1 672 versus 224 video to 720p widescreen 16x9 ratio. Although the source material was 540p, 720p looks better than 480p. (Let me know if you have any problems with it and I will swap the old video back in.)
Cheers

[Blindman]

Don't forget the secondary fire, if you push your zoom level to minimum it is very usable in close combat too. So all these things can be easy workedaround then.
I played under similar settings on AZ Linux Server, as close as you can get to without SVN version, and it looks interesting, I have to say.

Just updated the new svn server, I must say the 672 setting looks more reasonable, 224 still allowed for the jump splash thing at relatively short range.

[ballist1c]

Hi again, thanks for everybody's help with these new settings.
Thanks to quin's nifty directory trick I was able to try it out, and I must say, rifletaperin1 672 is about perfect for me. As mentioned by Blindman, with the default you are still able to take advantage of the splash. With Dratz' settings it is perfect, and takes some skill to land a hit.

Therefore, I would like to suggest increasing primary damage from 32 to 40-45. This is because most other weapons have a degree of splash or flak to them; the rifle should reward you for a more precise shot, with more damage (IMO). All my other suggestions are nullified.

[Blindman]

Not sure if this is appropriate to ask here, how long does it normally take before these sorts of changes get turned into a major release?
Seems like a lot of the players base are either unwilling or incapable of using svn as it was intended.
I think perhaps the mine models could be perfected, but as for the rifle changes, those settings seem like a good balance, and any skilled player should be able to overcome the differance easily.

[ballist1c]

Not sure if this is appropriate to ask here, how long does it normally take before these sorts of changes get turned into a major release?

For me, it would depend on how severe/crucial the changes are to the mechanics of the game. This is a pretty big change, I'd say it is not worth 1.4 title but 1.3.2 (if it was going to be relased anyway).

[qreeves]

Could be looking at a release early this year. I'd like everything ironed out before the first mekarcade alpha.

[qreeves]

Primary and secondary taperin is now set to 500, along with other minor changes to weapons now available in SVN.

[ballist1c]

Primary and secondary taperin is now set to 500, along with other minor changes to weapons now available in SVN.

500 seems an awfully small number compared to 672... can we get 650? That area seems to be the best balanced to me.

[Dratz-_C]

From the pole results: 16 / 7 = 2.2; "rifletaperin1 224" * 2.2 = "rifletaperin1 492.8" which is basically 500. I am downloading the svn to try it now. Then I should get back to my fundamentals of chemistry homework.
Cheers

[ballist1c]

Ah, I see. Silly me

[Blindman]

On another note, the smg secondary is awesome...

[Blindman]

nother thing, the bots are a unholy terror with those mines, I love the mines, however, all through the map I hear the beeping from a ( I assume) buried mine, two or three steps later, boom!!! I understand the mines are optional, and since the server is there for testing more or less I'll leave them alone.

[ballist1c]

Actually, as was pointed out by Damien and a couple others, the damage does DEFINITELY need to be raised to 50-60, because all other weapons have either splash or flak. A precision weapon like the rifle should deal a pretty big amount of damage as a reward for landing a hit with it, and would further balance. Doubling the damage, to 64, looks good to me.

[D.A.M.I.E.N.]

Eh, we didn't point out this, ballist1c. At least not me. If I said something in a meaning of greater damage, then I meant amouth of a splash at close distance. I have a different imagination about it. Just for clarification, I do agree that rifle is overpowered, but not that much that needs such changes as variable splash. Instead of balancing rifle (even when I supposed that this should be just a minor balance in my opinion), this is going towards to some transformation of laser gun, which does not fit and feels quite weird for player.

[quintux_v]

since we've mostly figured out a solution here, can one of you post the variable changes that are in use in SVN so I can change them for offline practice? Thanks in advance.

[Blindman]

since we've mostly figured out a solution here, can one of you post the variable changes that are in use in SVN so I can change them for offline practice? Thanks in advance.

I think the latest svn had the taperin at 100 both pri and sec, but i think is being calculated differently than in previous versions so Im not sure there is an accurate analogue.
primary damage is 35, explode1 is 24 as of today

[Blindman]

Eh, we didn't point out this, ballist1c. At least not me. If I said something in a meaning of greater damage, then I meant amouth of a splash at close distance. I have a different imagination about it. Just for clarification, I do agree that rifle is overpowered, but not that much that needs such changes as variable splash. Instead of balancing rifle (even when I supposed that this should be just a minor balance in my opinion), this is going towards to some transformation of laser gun, which does not fit and feels quite weird for player.

Isnt the rifle essentially a laser to start with? When someone says rifle, I imagine something along the lines of a hunting rifle, the rifle in this game does not act like a rifle in that respect. Im thinking the whole point of this was to reduce or eliminate the jump and shoot at the ground exploit, while keeping some splash at greater distance, the way it is now, it is roughly analogous to deer hunting with an uzi or an ak.

[Blindman]

i know this a little off topic, but is there a command to use when building from svn to build only the server binary?, it would save time between svn builds on the server side.

[arand]

i know this a little off topic, but is there a command to use when building from svn to build only the server binary?, it would save time between svn builds on the server side.

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

make -C src/ install-server

and likewise for client-only

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

make -C src/ install-client

[Blindman]

much appreciated. thanks

[Blindman]

r4666

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

-c -o engine/pvs.o engine/pvs.cpp
g++ -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -Wall -fsigned-char -fno-exceptions -fno-rtti -Ishared -Iengine -Igame -Ienet/include -I/usr/X11R6/include `sdl-config --cflags`   -c -o engine/rendergl.o engine/rendergl.cpp
engine/rendergl.cpp: In function ‘void drawtextures()’:
engine/rendergl.cpp:1178:8: error: ‘minimized’ was not declared in this scope
engine/rendergl.cpp: At global scope:
engine/rendergl.cpp:743:1: warning: ‘__dummy_glext’ defined but not used [-Wunused-variable]
make: *** [engine/rendergl.o] Error 1