Brainstorm: Objective-Based Classes

[greaserpirate]

Now that 1.3 is out, we might as well discuss some long-term ideas for Red Eclipse.

The idea of class-based gameplay has been talked about for a while now. For a brief period there was the "league" mutator, but it was abandoned, and I don't know if anyone is working on classes in RE. I know they're working on them in MekArcade, though.

However, I really think we should try and go in the direction of class-based gameplay. Mainly, the reason that Red Eclipse is so fun is that the fighting and movement feel excellent. But besides fighting and moving, there's not a lot to it. Yes, there are gamemodes like CTF, STF, and BB but they're still mostly "kill everyone in the way of your objective." Yes, it is a ton of fun. And yes, billions of games can be described as "just figting and moving". But still, wouldn't it be nice to have more variety and nuanced strategy?

The trick with adding classes is keeping the fun-as-hell gameplay. The league mutator's main flaw in my opinion was that messed with this. The leagues felt like they were just handicapped to different degrees; the one I liked the most was the SMG class where you had reduced health but could still parkour and move at a normal speed, but I might as well just play Arena and get the same.

So here's the idea I propose: make the leagues not based on single weapons but on objectives within the team.

I've sketched out some classes. They're still pretty basic and speculatory, but it's just a general idea:

Assault/Infantry League
Health: 100
The standard Red Eclipse player you've come to know and love. The only difference is that it regenerates 4 health on its own. (6 with the +2 bonus from unbroken line of sight with Support)

Support/Command League
Health: 80-90
These guys are important. They have the same speed and abilites as a normal player, but their health is slightly reduced and they only regenerate 3 points per second. Their job is to hold the front and survive as long as possible. Players can spawn on them, and any teammates (besides other Supports) with an unbroken line of sight to gets a +2 regen bonus. (This only applies to 1 Support). I'm not sure about overhealing. They can capture bases faster. Fragging a Support gives you extra points.
They can also salvage resources from recently fallen teammates, which they can give to Techs; this gives them incentive to risk going out briefly into the front line, and also to stick with teammates. (I was originally thinking of a "revive" ability like in Battlefield, but I don't think it will work as well in RE, especially if you can spawn on the Support anyway)

Tech League
Health: 70-85
The "Light engineer". Has reduced health, but 50% more impulse energy. Possibly smaller, but moves at the same speed as normal players. Has the ability to build turrets, spawnpoints, temporary(destructible) cover, and teleporters. Constructions have a "building" phase where they're vulnerable, and Techs can't create anything until the constuctions have finished building. I'm not sure how to handle resources; how much the Techs should start with, if items should be used, or if it should regenerate. I do have an idea that I really like, though: the ability to "salvage" resources from fallen players. Salvaging from teammates might be a problem, since then Techs might start cannibalising their friends for scrap, so I think it makes more sense if the Support gets this ability, and the Techs with their extra impulse get to swoop in and steal resources from the enemy.
Regenerates same as Assault.
In Insta, the Tech might be a bit overpowered; I'm not sure how to fix this, but giving them a higher delay between shots or a sword instead of a gun seems like a good solution.

Giant/Strike League
Health: 70-80 but doubled in Giant mode (so 140-160)
Somewhat inspired by the Hulk, and the trebuchet from Age of Empires. A mild-mannered scientist with less health than the other leagues, armed with only a pistol (maybe one other weapon), and possibly smaller than normal(but just as fast, maybe with more impulse too). However, this scientist has a secret power: the ability to transform into a giant with doubled health, 150% size, and increased damage. (Movement will be slower than normal players, and impulse will be decreased; maybe no double-jum and wallrunning?) After about 10 seconds, the transformation wears off, and the scientist has to wait to regenerate their ability.
Health regeneration in "scientist mode" is still 4 pts/sec, but since the health is doubled during the transformation, it translates to 8 pts/sec (or 12 with Support). Regen in "Giant Mode" is 5 pts/sec with or without Supports.
This league is ideal for quick, aggressive strikes, but once the transformation is over, this league is very vulnerable.
In Insta, the Giant is unarmed in scientist mode but given a pistol in Giant mode.

Stealth League
Health: 40-80
There's not a lot of stealth in RE, so this would bring some variety to the game. The Stealth league has a variety of tricks: invisibility (except for shadow, envmaps, maybe lights), making holograms, and disguising as a member of the opposite team. Their radar blip isn't visible except for when they shoot, when they reload, when they go invisible, and when they're disguised. (Their blip is the color of the team they're really on.) They also can't shoot when invisible or disguised, and when they're hit once the illusion breaks down.

Anyway, this is just a sketch of what the system might be like. Feel free to share your own ideas!

[cdxbow]

You should put the thumb screws on Quin and get him to put the classes code from MekArcade in Red Eclipse, it works well, but this first cut is limited to weight, speed, armour, health and height at the moment. No special abilities yet, or JJ or hover. It works much better than the old league mutator.

If you want to experiment you could use the mekArcade code, but probably best wait until till the 1.3 issues are sorted out.

[fawstoar]

I'd be interested in this... maybe it would be good for a co-op mode? As well as competitive multiplayer, of course.

[Spiney]

Am I the only one that seriously dislikes classes in FPS games?
It doesn't allow for creation of personal playingstyle and limits strategic possibilities by disallowing combinatorial permutations.

[Evropi]

Very good overview of a possible class-based system.

The biggest problem would actually be integrating it as a gamemode... would it be a 'major' mode or a mutator like 'multi'? It wouldn't work on most maps, only the truly huge ones really. And the effectiveness of classes in a fast-paced twitch shooter is debatable as there really is so much co-operation that can happen with all the spatial thinking that's necessary.

But those concerns aside, I think all the health should stay relatively equal, with 75 or 80 being the minimum. Anything lower just wouldn't work and the assault players would be OP, and yes, I've tried similar things in another game (Wolfenstein: ET).

[3xcl4m4t10n]

I was thinking on that some days ago and i also do some sketches about models. One idea i got is to do an spy class little diferent. I thinked on a dumy with a spider on it chest. The idea is to do this character medium weak and with normal weapons like some kind of gun and bow. Then a special ability can be deploy it spider and control it. Obviously it speed must be "demon-like" and the special feature must be that you can control enemy player on a short time (while it takes your life down).

If you want, i can upload some news sketches after when i go home.