POLL: Shield Weapon

[fluxord]

I thought it would be interesting to know if you folks like this idea of having a Shield in RE. From the "todo.txt" file:
* new "weapon" - shield? always equipped when carried, protects against damage?

I don't know you, but I like this idea and I hope we get a shiny-laser-shield-thingy to cover us from the bullets/flames/lazors.

Please comment & vote!

[Julius]

don't think a shield weapon would be very usefull given RE's fast gamestyle.

[YaRo]

as i said, this would be useful in tactic mode of red eclipse, not in action mode (now)

[inpersona64]

Does the shield-laser-thingy have two weapon fires, like any of the other weapons? What would they be? How much damage can they shield, percentage wise? I'm liking the idea sort of, as long as it can be used like other weapons (two types of fires and takes up one weapon choice in arena mode). The shield should have some kind of offensive attack. That way it doesn't seem like its a weapon that will promote/protect camping. And to be honest, it would be a nice addition to Medieval mode. Seeing as there are swords in this game (not knives, swords!)

[Stiva]

I could see a shield working in action mode, but not as a weapon. Perhaps a shield could be useful as a temporary buff/powerup. Considering that there aren't any powerups currently in the game, it might go against the intent for the game, but I don't think it would unbalance the game if it was possible to grab a shield that protects you from ~25 HP worth of damage and maybe slows you down too. On instagib, shield spawns could be made very rare but would let you survive a shot (I guess we have instagib + vampire for that kind of insanity) like in Nexuiz.

[cdxbow]

We'd love a shield, for MekArcade. MechAssault had shields on some of the big mechs, they were implemented as a glowing force field that surrounded the player, but only for a second or so, follwed by 5 to 10 seconds of 'reload' time. The skill was in the timing. If you were a bit laggy they were useless. The downside was you stood out like a sore thumb, done for game balance reasons.

[fluxord]

don't think a shield weapon would be very usefull given RE's fast gamestyle.

as i said, this would be useful in tactic mode of red eclipse, not in action mode (now)

I think it could be usefull in both modes, if you have played UT2004 you know what I mean, there was the "Shield Gun" which had a charging (deadly) attack for primary fire and the shield force field for secondary fire. BTW, UT2004 had a fast gameplay too.

Does the shield-laser-thingy have two weapon fires, like any of the other weapons? What would they be? How much damage can they shield, percentage wise? I'm liking the idea sort of, as long as it can be used like other weapons (two types of fires and takes up one weapon choice in arena mode). The shield should have some kind of offensive attack. That way it doesn't seem like its a weapon that will promote/protect camping. And to be honest, it would be a nice addition to Medieval mode. Seeing as there are swords in this game (not knives, swords!)

+1

I could see a shield working in action mode, but not as a weapon. Perhaps a shield could be useful as a temporary buff/powerup. Considering that there aren't any powerups currently in the game, it might go against the intent for the game, but I don't think it would unbalance the game if it was possible to grab a shield that protects you from ~25 HP worth of damage and maybe slows you down too. On instagib, shield spawns could be made very rare but would let you survive a shot (I guess we have instagib + vampire for that kind of insanity) like in Nexuiz.

Maybe if the shield gets implemented as a weapon, it should not appear on standard Instagib... But maybe you could set the instagib weapon to the shield? (if it has a primary attack, like said above).

We'd love a shield, for MekArcade. MechAssault had shields on some of the big mechs, they were implemented as a glowing force field that surrounded the player, but only for a second or so, follwed by 5 to 10 seconds of 'reload' time. The skill was in the timing. If you were a bit laggy they were useless. The downside was you stood out like a sore thumb, done for game balance reasons.

Like in UT2004, you could use the shield until the shield meter was empty, then it slowly reloaded... but you could use it even if not fully charged, but you had less shield protection then.

[fluxord]

bumping for votes

[YaRo]

In my opinion, how shield should work:

First of all, there will be three different buttons:

One for special movements
One for melle attack
One for defence

With first two all is clear.
Defence:

you can defend from attacks using hand defence (low protection), and shield.
So, if you pick up shield it will only works with one-hand low-weight weapons, such as:
Melle, pistol, sword, SMG, and grenade (maybe).
Hand defence should work with all weapons, i think.

So, do you agree with me?

[Stiva]

I think if the shield doesn't always protect you, it would fit better with the existing game mechanics, since no other weapon actually changes the player's attributes. I envision a futuristic riot shield, made out of a similar material to the player model's own armor (maybe it could match the player's color when picked up :3): Primary attack is bashing with the shield, which could deflect grenades and shots from other weapons if you're very good at timing it; holding down secondary attack lets you hold the shield in front of you with both hand, reducing your vision to a narrow viewing slit and reducing your movement speed while protecting you from all damage from the front--an impulse dash forward while the shield is enabled could do damage to anyone in your path.

[riidom]

I wanna throw another idea in the pot:
A shield can be worn or not, and when it is worn, it overrides the alternative fire of every weapon you have equipped. To avoid trouble with animations and models (one hand vs two hand weapons, for example) it could be equipped as a belt, for example.

Secondary fire would trigger the shield then (about the effects and flaws&draws has been written much already). I just would like to add, that the shield should work like a wall in terms of ricochet. So, reflecting shotgun altfire e.g.

Edit:
About the look of a shield, when worn as belt:
I imagine that as kind of an invisible energy field, and just when something hits the shield, it shows some kind of effect or little plate-like model; either at the place where the bullet/beam impacts, or (if that is difficult to synchronize properly) it shows up for a short moment around the whole player model. Some belt item should be there permamently, so you can see if someone wears a shield or not.

[fluxord]

... while protecting you from all damage from the front--an impulse dash forward while the shield is enabled could do damage to anyone in your path.

This could be called "Bullying" with the shield.

I just would like to add, that the shield should work like a wall in terms of ricochet. So, reflecting shotgun altfire e.g.

Reflecting ricochets, nice!

[D.A.M.I.E.N.]

No shield!! Value balanced gameplay and keep this game unique!! This is just not a good idea.

[inpersona64]

Disregarding the last post, lol, I think the shield would be wonderful for Red Eclipse. As many have stated before, we have a Sword, why not a shield?

I only agree with some of you; it should be equipped AS A WEAPON (like SMG and Shotgun, and Rocket). It works similar to the Sword, but its basically MOSTLY for defense rather than offense.

One attack (left click) could be so that you are protecting yourself FROM THE FRONT, NOT ALL ANGLES. That would definitely cause imbalance. (BTW, I liked the riot shield reference). Also the protection does ricochet bullets and shrapnel (idk how realistic it would be to ricochet flamer and reflecting the rocket means it would have to be dead center = impossible almost). This one attack can be held for up to...say, 3 seconds, before a 'reload' time of 1.5 seconds possibly.

The second attack (alt-fire) could be a defend attack but this attack protects you just for three quarters of a second and has a 'reload' time sort of, it protects you from damage and if you were to get melee'd, the opposing damage is not dealt on you but is dealt on the dealer (like the ricochet idea someone stated).

So basically, first defense protects you from gunfire and other ballistics, the second defense protects you from melee attacks and they both have a "bounce-back" effect. This meaning when the shield comes in contact from enemy fire or damage, which ever defense (attack button) is used, it will do damage back.

How's that sound?

[YaRo]

Disregarding the last post, lol, I think the shield would be wonderful for Red Eclipse. As many have stated before, we have a Sword, why not a shield?

I only agree with some of you; it should be equipped AS A WEAPON (like SMG and Shotgun, and Rocket). It works similar to the Sword, but its basically MOSTLY for defense rather than offense.

One attack (left click) could be so that you are protecting yourself FROM THE FRONT, NOT ALL ANGLES. That would definitely cause imbalance. (BTW, I liked the riot shield reference). Also the protection does ricochet bullets and shrapnel (idk how realistic it would be to ricochet flamer and reflecting the rocket means it would have to be dead center = impossible almost). This one attack can be held for up to...say, 3 seconds, before a 'reload' time of 1.5 seconds possibly.

The second attack (alt-fire) could be a defend attack but this attack protects you just for three quarters of a second and has a 'reload' time sort of, it protects you from damage and if you were to get melee'd, the opposing damage is not dealt on you but is dealt on the dealer (like the ricochet idea someone stated).

So basically, first defense protects you from gunfire and other ballistics, the second defense protects you from melee attacks and they both have a "bounce-back" effect. This meaning when the shield comes in contact from enemy fire or damage, which ever defense (attack button) is used, it will do damage back.

How's that sound?

Yes, I completely agree with you. Btw, first attack of sword can ricochet all attacks, which weapon has bounce geom and bounce ppl variables. So this wouldn't ricochet rocket and flamer, as you want.

[inpersona64]

Yes, I completely agree with you. Btw, first attack of sword can ricochet all attacks, which weapon has bounce geom and bounce ppl variables. So this wouldn't ricochet rocket and flamer, as you want.

+1
thank you. thats what I was trying to point out. that would make it work.

[Phy83r0pt1k]

No shield!! Value balanced gameplay and keep this game unique!! This is just not a good idea.

+5

[inpersona64]

No shield!! Value balanced gameplay and keep this game unique!! This is just not a good idea.

+5

why is it that you guys can't just state a reason why you dont want it? what would cause the gameplay to be unbalanced? thats all i want to know..

[ZeroKnight]

I don't want a shield. Red Eclipse is based on fast paced agile movement. The point is to use this agile movement to perform unique pathfinding and even dodges. If you can jump and flip and run along walls and jump over your enemy to throw off his aim, why would you need a shield? As mentioned above, made into a weapon or not, it would still encourage camping, which is pretty much the polar opposite of this game.
Now take my point above about how agile you can be, and take people who are good at this (a lot of people) and give them a shield. Now you've got people who are already difficult to hit, and even if you can hit them, it could be nullified by the shield, or even reflected back at you.
I just think that a shield in a game like Red Eclipse wouldn't make sense in terms of how it's played, and in the same sense, unbalance the game quite a bit. You're supposed to dodge and outmaneuver your enemy with skillful use of agile movement, not be a bullet sponge.

HOWEVER. Including it JUST for Medieval is not something I'm against. Honestly, I think that would be pretty neat, along with a separate thread on this board, adding more weapons that are Medieval exclusive. Then you could do a lot more with the shield that would break regular gameplay.

[inpersona64]

I don't want a shield. Red Eclipse is based on fast paced agile movement. The point is to use this agile movement to perform unique pathfinding and even dodges. If you can jump and flip and run along walls and jump over your enemy to throw off his aim, why would you need a shield? As mentioned above, made into a weapon or not, it would still encourage camping, which is pretty much the polar opposite of this game.
Now take my point above about how agile you can be, and take people who are good at this (a lot of people) and give them a shield. Now you've got people who are already difficult to hit, and even if you can hit them, it could be nullified by the shield, or even reflected back at you.
I just think that a shield in a game like Red Eclipse wouldn't make sense in terms of how it's played, and in the same sense, unbalance the game quite a bit. You're supposed to dodge and outmaneuver your enemy with skillful use of agile movement, not be a bullet sponge.

HOWEVER. Including it JUST for Medieval is not something I'm against. Honestly, I think that would be pretty neat, along with a separate thread on this board, adding more weapons that are Medieval exclusive. Then you could do a lot more with the shield that would break regular gameplay.

As any weapon in this game, it takes skill to use. The shield would be no different. And the shield would be defenseless against things like a grenade, rocket, and flamethrower. You can still be agile with the shield. In fact, what i'm thinking is that the only attack you can use for the shield is melee because IMO holding a weapon while holding the shield is a bit overpowered. And if a shield encourages camping, so would other weapons. Just because it's a shield doesn't mean one will, or even should sit in a corner. Because one understands that sitting isn't helping his team. Honestly, I could see myself jumping around with a shield and rifle in Arena TDM, but I still prefer SMG-Rifle combo over all

[ZeroKnight]

Hm. I wonder if my post was deleted, or my connection stuttered. Either way, I don't feel like re-writing my reply.

[fawstoar]

Medieval has grenades, at present. This doesn't necessarily fit the game mode, but if we added shields it would still be pretty cool. If grenades now stick to people, perhaps a shield would protect you from that? That said, I am very much opposed to shields in regular game modes... a shield feels like something that would be either some kind of perk in a progression shooter (e.g. Call of Duty) or a powerup like the Quad Damage or extra armor in Sauerbraten. Neither fit Red Eclipse, and as a weapon... well... a shield, last time I checked isn't a weapon. What am I supposed to do with it? Unless you wanted to implement a blocking mechanic that would among the standard set of energy-draining abilities. That would be cool... perhaps to fend off incoming projectiles, if only from grenades and rockets. That would actually be very cool. Sorry for the rant, but there you go, that's my input.

[Stiva]

If grenades could stick to people, a shield should be a liability in that respect (larger surface area to stick to). That way, there's a compromise if the shield confined to medieval--the shield can let you protect yourself from sword attacks but leaves you vulnerable to a grenade, which would presumably still do damage despite the shield.

[inpersona64]

Medieval has grenades, at present. This doesn't necessarily fit the game mode, but if we added shields it would still be pretty cool. If grenades now stick to people, perhaps a shield would protect you from that?

Have you seen the explosive radius of a grenade? No shield can protect you from that unless the shield is 10 times the size of the player. The size of the shield would be proportional the the size of the sword, therefore, no one is protected from a grenade. There, unbalance problem solved

[inpersona64]

I was bored so I drew up an image of what the shield might look like, or could look like.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy12 ... shield.png