Politics!

Re: Some license discussion (Some new libre games I've found

Postby Lyberta » 22 Apr 2019, 06:40

fluffrabbit {l Wrote}:Nothing I say is going to make me sound like a good guy, but I feel that the military follows different rules from the rest of society. Don't ask don't tell etc.


It's nice to know that you are no longer human when you join the military. Makes it easy to point your rifle towards your superiors.

O01eg {l Wrote}:Pirates have a greed as well.


Yeah, selling PC CDs for 80 rubles and console CDs for 60. Then when 2 CD games came out they charged like 120. Ugh... Tough times. At least they are over, now I can download everything from torrents for free.

O01eg {l Wrote}:The sole reason for copyrights and patents is a government control for information.


Government? Corporations have exclusive rights and pay almost no taxes.

O01eg {l Wrote}:It fails every time it been tried.


The truth is much more complicated.

drummyfish {l Wrote}:My ideal society is basically the communist ideal, except I disagree with the means by which communists strive to achieve it (revolution, violence, totalitarianism, ...).


Contrary to popular belief USSR (and modern Russia tbh) are just fascist. US just didn't use the term for political reason. Communism was a just lie in order to seize power from Russian monarchy.
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Re: Some license discussion (Some new libre games I've found

Postby fluffrabbit » 22 Apr 2019, 16:47

Lyberta {l Wrote}:
fluffrabbit {l Wrote}:Nothing I say is going to make me sound like a good guy, but I feel that the military follows different rules from the rest of society. Don't ask don't tell etc.


It's nice to know that you are no longer human when you join the military. Makes it easy to point your rifle towards your superiors.

In my opinion, nobody should be kept out of the military in terms of joining voluntarily. But nowadays there aren't enough wars to make that a reality. For those of us who were born to kill and love the smell of napalm in the morning, the alternative options are unclear. I guess that's why they keep making CoD games.
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Re: Some license discussion (Some new libre games I've found

Postby O01eg » 23 Apr 2019, 05:53

Lyberta {l Wrote}:
O01eg {l Wrote}:Pirates have a greed as well.

Yeah, selling PC CDs for 80 rubles and console CDs for 60. Then when 2 CD games came out they charged like 120. Ugh... Tough times. At least they are over, now I can download everything from torrents for free.

Government doesn't enforce you to buy from pirates.
Lyberta {l Wrote}:
O01eg {l Wrote}:The sole reason for copyrights and patents is a government control for information.


Government? Corporations have exclusive rights and pay almost no taxes.

It's a government who give corporations those rights. No one else. In exchange corporations ban right-wings and support leftists.
Lyberta {l Wrote}:
O01eg {l Wrote}:It fails every time it been tried.


The truth is much more complicated.

Looks like 4chan yanggang made it popular. The lie is a complex. The truth is a always simple. https://fee.org/articles/ubi-is-even-wo ... n-welfare/
Lyberta {l Wrote}:
drummyfish {l Wrote}:My ideal society is basically the communist ideal, except I disagree with the means by which communists strive to achieve it (revolution, violence, totalitarianism, ...).


Contrary to popular belief USSR (and modern Russia tbh) are just fascist. US just didn't use the term for political reason. Communism was a just lie in order to seize power from Russian monarchy.

Communism was not lie, it is simply has no difference with fascism — different leftists collectivism movement.
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Re: Some license discussion (Some new libre games I've found

Postby Lyberta » 24 Apr 2019, 02:19

O01eg {l Wrote}:Government doesn't enforce you to buy from pirates.


Yeah, but without the internet and no other way to get violent video games what else would stop me from taking a kitchen knife to my school and trying to kill absolutely everyone there?

O01eg {l Wrote}:Looks like 4chan yanggang made it popular. The lie is a complex. The truth is a always simple. https://fee.org/articles/ubi-is-even-wo ... n-welfare/


Wow, and you provide an opinion of some random guy from the libertarian part of alt right who cites zero sources as a proof of your claims?

O01eg {l Wrote}:Communism was not lie, it is simply has no difference with fascism — different leftists collectivism movement.


Watch the video I linked. Communism means no government involvement. Fascism mean total government control.
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Re: Some license discussion (Some new libre games I've found

Postby fluffrabbit » 24 Apr 2019, 03:52

Not really on-topic (I actually deleted my last post because I was getting unnecessarily upset) but...

Lyberta {l Wrote}:
O01eg {l Wrote}:Government doesn't enforce you to buy from pirates.


Yeah, but without the internet and no other way to get violent video games what else would stop me from taking a kitchen knife to my school and trying to kill absolutely everyone there?

If free software is so great, why haven't we been able to make a well-known CoD/GTA type game? Is there some open source opposition to violence? I've played AssaultCube, but it's pretty cheesy and cartoonish, not really competitive with anything but Quake. Uebergame comes to mind, but it's a pain to compile because last time I checked it used a forked version of Torque. I don't know of any other FLOSS games of this type that will actually run on Linux. AFAIK there is no practical barrier to that, it's just that people focus on, I dunno, JRPGs?
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Re: Some new libre games I've found

Postby Lyberta » 24 Apr 2019, 18:03

O01eg {l Wrote}:Any laws forbidding anyone from accessing to private healthcare and private employment and entrepreneurship are unconstitutional so it isn't something you should afraid in sane mind.


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Re: Some license discussion (Some new libre games I've found

Postby O01eg » 24 Apr 2019, 19:21

Lyberta {l Wrote}:
O01eg {l Wrote}:Government doesn't enforce you to buy from pirates.


Yeah, but without the internet and no other way to get violent video games what else would stop me from taking a kitchen knife to my school and trying to kill absolutely everyone there?

Rifle!
Lyberta {l Wrote}:
O01eg {l Wrote}:Looks like 4chan yanggang made it popular. The lie is a complex. The truth is a always simple. https://fee.org/articles/ubi-is-even-wo ... n-welfare/


Wow, and you provide an opinion of some random guy from the libertarian part of alt right who cites zero sources as a proof of your claims?

Why I should prefer some random video-blogging guy without proof over professor of economics?
Lyberta {l Wrote}:
O01eg {l Wrote}:Communism was not lie, it is simply has no difference with fascism — different leftists collectivism movement.


Watch the video I linked. Communism means no government involvement. Fascism mean total government control.

I see you don't understand your own ideology. Communism believed to build after socialism with total government control. Also you don't even understand that without government no one will be paid UBI and no one could be taxed to fund UBI.
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Re: Some new libre games I've found

Postby O01eg » 24 Apr 2019, 19:24

Lyberta {l Wrote}:
O01eg {l Wrote}:Any laws forbidding anyone from accessing to private healthcare and private employment and entrepreneurship are unconstitutional so it isn't something you should afraid in sane mind.


dun dun DUUUN


Can you even read the text? Where do you find anyone forbidden to do something?
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Re: Some license discussion (Some new libre games I've found

Postby Lyberta » 25 Apr 2019, 01:20

O01eg {l Wrote}:Rifle!


Good luck getting it. In my 16 years of trying to acquire one, I couldn't.

O01eg {l Wrote}:Why I should prefer some random video-blogging guy without proof over professor of economics?


Because they cite a lot of sources and do proper research unlike that moron who says that not working is bad.

O01eg {l Wrote}:I see you don't understand your own ideology. Communism believed to build after socialism with total government control. Also you don't even understand that without government no one will be paid UBI and no one could be taxed to fund UBI.


I never advocated for communism. Do you really think those USSR bastards ever told the truth? They just usurped power and used communism as a lie. Communism as defined doesn't require government at all. Of course, people are retarded and will never be able to live in communism.

OTOH, socialism forces people to be decent. I hate forcing people but if they are too maliciously retarded, they have to be forced.

O01eg {l Wrote}:Can you even read the text? Where do you find anyone forbidden to do something?


Now people would be free to discriminate against trans people. The end result is the same - suffering and deaths.
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Re: Politics!

Postby fluffrabbit » 25 Apr 2019, 02:00

We're all personalities, and I think that offending the sensibilities of your local community by being who you are is just as harmful as active discrimination, if who you are is found to be offensive. But it's circular logic because discriminating against any personality is discrimination. Therefore, you must always choose who to discriminate against.

For example, the YMCA and similar organizations have a non-discrimination policy regarding the things leftists think are important, but rightists have their own ideology that can be discriminated against. So the YMCA discriminates against certain politics, which means groups of people. I find a lot of that on the Internet, and I'm glad that there are still places where we can discuss these things without either side going full retard. But at the same time, there was a political movement a few years ago related to Pepe the Frog, which was just that. I don't discriminate against the Pepe people.
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Re: Some license discussion (Some new libre games I've found

Postby O01eg » 25 Apr 2019, 05:50

Lyberta {l Wrote}:
O01eg {l Wrote}:Rifle!


Good luck getting it. In my 16 years of trying to acquire one, I couldn't.

A rifle is what stop you and your knife.
Lyberta {l Wrote}:
O01eg {l Wrote}:Why I should prefer some random video-blogging guy without proof over professor of economics?


Because they cite a lot of sources and do proper research unlike that moron who says that not working is bad.

Proper research isn't done as video. Proper research includes alternatives but I don't even need to watch this video to know there was not comparison to simple don't tax people for same amount of money.
Lyberta {l Wrote}:
O01eg {l Wrote}:I see you don't understand your own ideology. Communism believed to build after socialism with total government control. Also you don't even understand that without government no one will be paid UBI and no one could be taxed to fund UBI.


I never advocated for communism. Do you really think those USSR bastards ever told the truth? They just usurped power and used communism as a lie. Communism as defined doesn't require government at all. Of course, people are retarded and will never be able to live in communism.

OTOH, socialism forces people to be decent. I hate forcing people but if they are too maliciously retarded, they have to be forced.

You just did it. USSR indeed was an "Empire of Lie" but their socialism was real and leftists said it was real socialism until USSR collapsed.
Moreover it was you who said communism works and argued it with UBI (Looks like it failed as well: https://fee.org/articles/universal-basi ... dn-t-work/ ). Now you say communism is impossible because people is retarded. Could you be more determined?
Lyberta {l Wrote}:
O01eg {l Wrote}:Can you even read the text? Where do you find anyone forbidden to do something?

Now people would be free to discriminate against trans people. The end result is the same - suffering and deaths.


So you say trans are incapable of being medics to cure other trans? Without government who would force non-trans medics to cure trans?
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Re: Some license discussion (Some new libre games I've found

Postby GunChleoc » 25 Apr 2019, 09:08

O01eg {l Wrote}:So you say trans are incapable of being medics to cure other trans? Without government who would force non-trans medics to cure trans?

Since there aren't that many trans people, who far would you expect Lyberta to travel to see a doctor then? 100 miles? 1000?
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Re: Some license discussion (Some new libre games I've found

Postby Lyberta » 25 Apr 2019, 11:26

O01eg {l Wrote}:A rifle is what stop you and your knife.


I don't think they'd call a SWAT team for a school kid (at that time) with a knife. Other than that, my plan was to kill myself with that knife before the police has the chance to stop me.

O01eg {l Wrote}:Proper research isn't done as video. Proper research includes alternatives but I don't even need to watch this video to know there was not comparison to simple don't tax people for same amount of money.


What what? That's really hard to parse.

O01eg {l Wrote}:You just did it. USSR indeed was an "Empire of Lie" but their socialism was real and leftists said it was real socialism until USSR collapsed.


Not really. Socialism means stuff such as proper elections and human rights. USSR never had it.

O01eg {l Wrote}:Moreover it was you who said communism works and argued it with UBI


WHAAAAAAAAAT???? UBI is not needed in communism because there is no money to begin with. UBI is what socialism needs to stop the suffering of capitalism.

O01eg {l Wrote}:(Looks like it failed as well: https://fee.org/articles/universal-basi ... dn-t-work/ ).


Wow, what a strange article. Let me quote from it.

Evaluations of the experiment found that the negative income tax reduced “desired hours of work by 9 percent for husbands, by 20 percent for wives, and by 25 percent for single female heads of families.”


How is that bad? That's great that people managed to spend more time with their family.

If recipients lost their jobs during the experiment, they experienced significantly longer spells of unemployment compared with non-recipients—more than two months longer for husbands, almost a year longer for wives, and longer still for single mothers.


How is that bad?

In Losing Ground, Murray concluded that the effect of the negative income tax on reducing work was “unambiguous and strong.”


Great! People can finally do something productive instead of wasting their life on a job.

First, Murray proposes eliminating Social Security and Medicare payments to pay for a universal basic income. This would shift resources from the elderly to the non-elderly, including childless adults who are capable of self-support.


So what? They didn't say the cost of maintaining all those welfare systems to give money only to select few.

Second, universal basic income payments would be given to all citizens, including middle- and high-income earners. By not targeting payments to those with low incomes, the proposal would transfer funds away from the vulnerable to the relatively affluent.


What a load of bullshit. Everyone gets the same amount of money.

But the most apparent flaw with the concept is that it fails to require work or work preparation for its recipients. Although the current welfare system does little to encourage self-support, a comprehensive universal basic income policy would remove the idea of personal responsibility entirely.


How is that a flaw? LOL. I've wasted 10 years in school and 1.5 years in college. What did I get from it? Only desire to kill my parents, schoolmates and teachers. Nothing they teach you actually helps in life. All important stuff I learned by myself. All this education system is pure torture for the sake of brainwashing. If I didn't go to school, I'd probably kept most of my mental health, have a job and happy life right now. Not having to go to school and/or college actually will make an almost perfect society because people will not have PTSD from childhood. Imagine, instead of suffering constant bullying and exercises in school people will actually have happy childhood. Only this thought makes me want to destroy the current government.

In the 2016 General Social Survey, for example, 70 percent of Americans agreed that they would enjoy working in a paying job, even if they didn’t need the money. Moreover, prominent social psychologist Jonathan Haidt argues that work is a central pillar of human well-being and happiness.


So those 70 percent will keep their job under UBI. The rest will finally be able to live more happy life.

Seriously, that article proved all my points that UBI is great. It's just FEE is a cult of braindead people who twist the truth because... I dunno, some kind of mental illness maybe?

O01eg {l Wrote}:So you say trans are incapable of being medics to cure other trans? Without government who would force non-trans medics to cure trans?


I do sincerely hope that you will experience the situation where 95% of public places will not treat you as a human. I see strong white male cis hetero vibe in your words.
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Re: Politics!

Postby onpon4 » 25 Apr 2019, 12:22

WHAAAAAAAAAT???? UBI is not needed in communism because there is no money to begin with. UBI is what socialism needs to stop the suffering of capitalism.

UBI is "Universal Basic Income", correct? Income is money, correct?

I'm actually in favor of UBI as a replacement for all the welfare programs we currently have. It's a much more efficient way to provide a baseline level of welfare for all citizens in my opinion, and one that doesn't create a risk of discouraging people from seeking work (for any conservatives who disagree, note that a good UBI wouldn't be exactly luxurious, so most people would still want to work for more on top of that to live the lifestyle they would like; some research has been done on this and it turns out that with the notable exception of new mothers and teenagers, UBI doesn't tend to decrease people's propensity to work[1][2]). Plus, it has the added benefit of encouraging otherwise risky business ventures; if your bold business idea succeeds, great! But if it fails, at least you have that basic income to fall back on.

I once saw a really great article outlining how a UBI budget could work, though I unfortunately didn't bookmark it and don't know where it is anymore. But essentially, it involves highly progressive taxation and introduction of various new taxes. The raw figures are that a little less than 4.5 trillion dollars would be needed in total to give every U.S. citizen a basic income of $13,354 a year, which is 10% above the federal poverty line (going by 2018 figures), but it's important to note that people who don't actually need it (because they make lots of income elsewhere) would often be paying more in taxes than they're getting, so it's not as crazy as it sounds. Just to give an example, if a person earning $80,000 a year from their job is taxed, say, 20%, they will pay $16,000 in taxes, which is more than the UBI I suggested above. The GDP of the U.S. is over 20 trillion dollars, so this is definitely achievable, and it doesn't require a socialist dystopia.

However, and getting back to what you said, it's simply absurd to say that a GBI could possibly be done in a society with no government and no money.

[1] http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/4100
[2] http://archive.irpp.org/po/archive/jan01/hum.pdf
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Re: Politics!

Postby Julius » 25 Apr 2019, 12:44

While I think some sort of UBI will be unavoidable in a society with a high level of robotic automatisation, all the current implementation proposals are highly flawed in regards to exploit-ability by large companies with a strong lobby.
Unless some other factors in our society are changed massively, any efforts for an UBI will only result in a few influential companies reaping the benefits of basically outsourcing the labour payments of their low-skill jobs. This is not only bad for overall progress, but will also hamper further automatisation of these menial low-skill jobs as there is little incentive for these companies to invest in robotics if they are not even (fully) paying the labour costs. Thus assuming the UBI is to be mainly financed from automatisation, it is self-defeating to some extend.
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Re: Politics!

Postby onpon4 » 25 Apr 2019, 12:58

People propose to fund UBI with automation? That sounds odd to me. Obviously automation would play a part, but I would only imagine it being the indirect effect that companies can make greater profit and therefore pay more in taxes as a result.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "outsourcing the labour payments of their low-skill jobs". Are you saying that wages would go down in response to UBI? I tend to think the opposite would happen; having that promise of stability means workers can make stronger demands of their employers for higher wages, since it won't be the end of the world for them if they lose their job over the dispute.
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Re: Politics!

Postby Julius » 25 Apr 2019, 14:45

onpon4 {l Wrote}:I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "outsourcing the labour payments of their low-skill jobs". Are you saying that wages would go down in response to UBI? I tend to think the opposite would happen; having that promise of stability means workers can make stronger demands of their employers for higher wages, since it won't be the end of the world for them if they lose their job over the dispute.


Quite the contrary. For low-skill jobs there is a surplus of labour. Especially in countries with a high level of automatisation. Thus you have many people who want to make a little extra money on top of the UBI (which as you say yourself is only covering the basics). Result: Company only needs to pay lets say $100-200 extra per month despite people working a significant number of hours. If you don't like it... here is the door, the next person is already waiting (who is bored sitting at home or wants to fund a nice holiday that UBI doesn't cover etc.). This isn't even theory, but already happening in Germany a lot with the conditional but otherwise quite UBI like social benefit payments. As a result 80-90% of the labour cost is outsourced to society, which has to pay for the UBI somehow.
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Re: Some license discussion (Some new libre games I've found

Postby O01eg » 25 Apr 2019, 19:28

GunChleoc {l Wrote}:
O01eg {l Wrote}:So you say trans are incapable of being medics to cure other trans? Without government who would force non-trans medics to cure trans?

Since there aren't that many trans people, who far would you expect Lyberta to travel to see a doctor then? 100 miles? 1000?

Do you think it better to accept cure from hating you non-trans forced medic slave who could even hiddenly kill you with medicine? Does women and afro-Americans hate trans too so they decline if trans ask for help?
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Re: Politics!

Postby Lyberta » 26 Apr 2019, 07:16

Julius {l Wrote}:While I think some sort of UBI will be unavoidable in a society with a high level of robotic automatisation, all the current implementation proposals are highly flawed in regards to exploit-ability by large companies with a strong lobby.


Obviously, Unites States are insane and are very low on list of countries suitable for UBI. UBI requires sane government. I expect EU and Canada to be the first countries to do the right thing.

O01eg {l Wrote}:Do you think it better to accept cure from hating you non-trans forced medic slave who could even hiddenly kill you with medicine? Does women and afro-Americans hate trans too so they decline if trans ask for help?


Wow. Human rights laws actually educate people and protect people. If some doctor kills the patient like that, it's the end of their career and a long jail time.
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Re: Politics!

Postby fluffrabbit » 26 Apr 2019, 07:29

Doctors kill patients all the time. Don't think you get special treatment.

Also, Canada? Not likely.
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