Some bug fixes and improvements

Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby xenodora » 07 Jun 2016, 14:33

I don't know if any still follows this project, but I've recently found it and have been messing around with it a bit. In the process of doing so, I've made some bug fixes and small improvements.

My fork of the code with these changes are here:
https://sourceforge.net/u/xenodora/lipsofsuna/

Bugs fixed:
  • Mattocks would crash the game if used to inflict damage.
  • Terrain shaders were triggering a warning when compiled at run time with Nvidia drivers, which caused them to not be loaded and made the terrain black everywhere.
  • Saving options would fail, or save to a garbage filename.
  • When loading Lua modules, it was possible for them to be registered under the wrong name.
Improvements:
  • Climb works again, however, the animations are missing.
  • Shapekey sliders can now be setup to use multiple stages, instead of just the two or three stages it supported before.
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby Julius » 09 Jun 2016, 12:04

Welcome to the forums!

Very cool, I hope this project can be revived with some renewed focus.

Any chance to transfer the code over to github (or similar) for better developing tools and an issue tracker etc?

Do you have some further plans what you would like to do with it? Some VR (OpenHMD works well with Ogre3D I was told) implementation would be cool ;)

Edit: are the model files somewhere available as .blend? I had a quick look at the repository, but could not find any. If it was available, adding some simple climbing animations would probably not take very long.

Edit2: on a second thought... this game probably needs an "art reboot" as most people didn't really like the "new" extreme cell-shaded look. What are your thoughts about going back to something a bit more traditional? I guess the Ryzom animations could be used, and this seems like a very nice base for a generic Anime female model: http://www.blendswap.com/blends/view/75366 (polycount around 7000 when you remove all the props, so quite game ready). I am mainly thinking about a quick way to bootstrap something usable, and there are definitely much more nice open-source RPG like assets available than a few years back when this game was under development.
Story could be "regular Japanese school girl suddenly transported into RPG world" like all those recent Animes with a similar theme ;)
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby eugeneloza » 10 Jun 2016, 08:40

Yeah... it was a great pitty that there was a development stall in this game. I gave it a try a year or two ago and it was very promising.
I really hope you can pick it up and make something cool :D
P.S. I've tried most available versions and liked 0.5.0 better than later releases both in graphics and gameplay.
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby xenodora » 10 Jun 2016, 17:15

Julius {l Wrote}:Welcome to the forums!

Very cool, I hope this project can be revived with some renewed focus.

Thanks.

Julius {l Wrote}:Any chance to transfer the code over to github (or similar) for better developing tools and an issue tracker etc?

I'll have a look into it. I forked it on Source Forge, as I figured it would be the most visible to those looking at the project, but on Source Forge it seems like a fork is just meant to be a satellite to the main project, which gives it fewer features.

Julius {l Wrote}:Do you have some further plans what you would like to do with it?

I don't have any definite plans yet. At the moment I'm just messing around with it and seeing what it can do. I do have half a mind to use it for an old game project of mine, but I imagine there's some work to do and familiarisation before I can seriously do that.

In the short term, I'm toying around with the idea of adding a Lua console, to allow easier debugging and experimentation at run time. Plus I'm thinking about adding more terrain features that can be generated.

Julius {l Wrote}:Some VR (OpenHMD works well with Ogre3D I was told) implementation would be cool ;)


I might look into that when the urge strikes me, but I lack VR hardware, so it's going to be a rather low priority for me.

Julius {l Wrote}:Edit: are the model files somewhere available as .blend? I had a quick look at the repository, but could not find any. If it was available, adding some simple climbing animations would probably not take very long.

The .blend files should be in the repository. The blends for the player's model should be in this directory: data/lipsofsuna/actors/aer/

Julius {l Wrote}:Edit2: on a second thought... this game probably needs an "art reboot" as most people didn't really like the "new" extreme cell-shaded look. What are your thoughts about going back to something a bit more traditional?

I'm a big believer in the "working code is king" philosophy (or working art in this case). As flawed as the current iteration of art is, it does work and serve its purpose. Rebooting it when I barely know my way around the code base or Blender is a recipe for failure.

I've been playing around a little with 0.5.0 and see how in some ways it's better. I do have some thoughts on how the visuals can be improved without resorting to an art reboot.
  • Fully modelled face: 0.8.0's face is simply painted on, which results in it looking rather flat when you get the camera in close. I imagine a face with properly detailed eyes, nose and mouth will look better.
  • Improved environment textures: The current textures for ground and walls are currently a bit bland, and lacking in detail.
  • Irregular environment decoration: 0.5.0 had a lot of irregularities added to the geometry of cave wall and floor voxels, which made the environment look good. In 0.8.0 it uses "sticks" which are something like a variable height voxel. Although stick can have sloped tops and bottoms, their sides are perfectly vertical, which makes their regular shape quite noticeable. Adding irregularities to the sides isn't straight forward, as sticks can be absurdly tall, meaning added detail gets stretched a lot, or lots of extra geometry needs to be added.
  • Improved lighting: With the current lighting, a single directional light source dominates, with other light sources having little to no impact. Although this does make sense for outdoors, it makes dungeons look too bright.

Julius {l Wrote}:I guess the Ryzom animations could be used, and this seems like a very nice base for a generic Anime female model: http://www.blendswap.com/blends/view/75366 (polycount around 7000 when you remove all the props, so quite game ready). I am mainly thinking about a quick way to bootstrap something usable, and there are definitely much more nice open-source RPG like assets available than a few years back when this game was under development.

It's a nice model, but I do see a couple of problems with it. First that it's marked as fan art, which renders it unusable from a copyright perspective. The second is that the clothes are part of the model, so rework would be required to turn her into a bare model onto which clothes can be layered, otherwise the model will just be a place holder.

Julius {l Wrote}:Story could be "regular Japanese school girl suddenly transported into RPG world" like all those recent Animes with a similar theme ;)

I thought that was an old theme. :P Not sure about that story specifically, but there will need to be some threadbare story to give things context and purpose.
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby xenodora » 11 Jun 2016, 20:15

I've gone and set up a repository on Git lab here:
https://gitlab.com/xenodora/lipsofsuna
I intend to use it as the main repository, but I'll try and keep the Source Forge repository mirrored for now.


I've gone and added towers to the terrain generation. These buildings sit in a 1x1 chunk with 3 to 5 floors each. Each level has a 50% chance of a having a "civilisation" item (crafting equipment mainly or 5% chance of a treasure chest. It does have the bug where civilisation items also include things like obelisks, so you can have a tower with an obelisk protruding through multiple floors. Overall it works, but I do wonder if they're too tall for the amount of interesting stuff in them. Also the camera jerks around a bit too much when going up the stairs.
screenshot-1465629410.jpg
screenshot-1465630206.jpg

I've also added a small houses too. These also sit on a 1x1 chunk, and are a single room with a simple fireplace and chimney. The fireplace is filled with a couple of torches to act as a fire. It also spawns some furniture, but the chairs never stay upright, and the table appears to float. I suspect the physics on the furniture needs some work.
screenshot-1465663976.jpg
screenshot-1465664829.jpg

Creating these terrain items highlighted that the terrain generation has some limitations and needs some overhauling before it can be used to create coherent maps. At the moment it just sprinkles the land randomly with things where ever they can fit, and under ground dungeons can't pass under anything else that has been placed, or vice versa. The planner will need to be made smarter to have things like towns or villages, and have them connected together.
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby Julius » 12 Jun 2016, 03:43

Nice progress!

I had a quick look at the .blend files, and the setup seem quite typical (although I have not really looked into the export tool chain that seems non-standard. It also seems to partially use key-shapes that are quite unusual for games that are mostly pure bone animations to allow better GPU acceleration).

I agree with your idea to use working-game art where possible, and therefore looked at the mesh for possible points of improvement. However it is not badly made, I just feel the animations are very robotic and the body morphing code seems to put too much constraints on the artistic freedom to create a really good looking mesh.
(P.S.: Regarding the mesh posted above, yes fan art, but also quite generic, so if you remove all the props and change the colors you should be fine copyright wise).

Hmm... to improve the existing world look: right now the terrain seems to be lit more or less full bright, with vertex light only at extreme angles. I guess that is in the cell-shading code, but it makes everything look very bland. Maybe you could experiment with different terrain shading methods?
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby xenodora » 13 Jun 2016, 13:48

Julius {l Wrote}:Nice progress!

Thanks.
Julius {l Wrote}:I had a quick look at the .blend files, and the setup seem quite typical (although I have not really looked into the export tool chain that seems non-standard. It also seems to partially use key-shapes that are quite unusual for games that are mostly pure bone animations to allow better GPU acceleration).

Instructions for the blender exporter can be found here: http://lipsofsuna.org/wiki/graphics-blender-exporter
I didn't have any real problems with it when I was exporting the base model with new shape keys.

Julius {l Wrote}:I agree with your idea to use working-game art where possible, and therefore looked at the mesh for possible points of improvement. However it is not badly made, I just feel the animations are very robotic and the body morphing code seems to put too much constraints on the artistic freedom to create a really good looking mesh.

The body morphing features is one of the things that appealed to me when I started messing with this engine, keeping it around will be one of my intentions.
Julius {l Wrote}:(P.S.: Regarding the mesh posted above, yes fan art, but also quite generic, so if you remove all the props and change the colors you should be fine copyright wise).

You're probably right there, but I'm paranoid about crazy lawyers and expansive definitions of derivative works. :P

Julius {l Wrote}:Hmm... to improve the existing world look: right now the terrain seems to be lit more or less full bright, with vertex light only at extreme angles. I guess that is in the cell-shading code, but it makes everything look very bland. Maybe you could experiment with different terrain shading methods?

The terrain's shader doesn't have have a cel shading effect. I think part of the problem comes from the texture atlas it uses, which I suspect was made as place holders for something more cel-shading friendly than the older photo realistic textures.
stickterrain1-texture-atlas.jpg

As can be seen, most of the ground textures are repeating noise clouds with different colours. The brick and timber textures meanwhile are fair uniform, and both have colours that are similar to the fairly common brown soil. I imagine getting something better on those textures will help things.


More generally on lighting: I've found some bugs that were causing torches and other light sources to not work well. The first bug is that light sources were applying a negative amount of lights to any surface that was facing away from it. This made walls facing away from the sun to be super dark, and coloured light sources to highlight objects in unexpected colours.

The second bug is that torches and other point light sources weren't being applied to the terrain. This is due to the rendering of terrain chunks being handled as monolithic chunks, which caused Ogre to think the object was too far from the light sources, even though the model is next to or overlapping the light source. The work around was to extended the range of light, so a terrain chunk will always be within it. This might cause performance problems later, but for now it seems to work well.

The third bug is that light sources would persist after they were put away or removed.

screenshot-1465802195.jpg
screenshot-1465802597.jpg

These screenshots were taken with the world artifically darkened.
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby Lonnes » 14 Jun 2016, 12:01

You are doing a great job !

I also found that project not long ago (~4 or 5 month) and I'd like to use the material of this project to re-imagine how the game could be done. :) (In my opininon some of the gameplay feature have to be differenciated from the main overworld, like battle that could take place in a secluted area, like in wakfu)

Did you notice, that this game had story and lore ? (I didn't know until yesterday !) If you head to the wiki in the devloppment section in the Deprecated section you can actually find the lore, story and idea of the game :D (After reading the story i kind of want to see where it could go !)

You are doing a great job so far ! (i don't know what you wanna do with this game but continue on !)

If possible, and if you want, we could work on a shared lore (as the base are the same).

ps : Sorry for bad english ...
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby Julius » 16 Jun 2016, 07:10

Ah, I see.

For the environmental textures... you have plans to replace them with something different? I assume one could add specularity and normal-maps to them easily, instead of the pure diffuse textures they seem to be right now?
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby xenodora » 19 Jun 2016, 05:28

Julius {l Wrote}:For the environmental textures... you have plans to replace them with something different? I assume one could add specularity and normal-maps to them easily, instead of the pure diffuse textures they seem to be right now?


I do intend to replace the terrain textures, or at the very least add more variety to the available terrains pieces. As for specular and normal maps, that should be doable, as it's just a matter of setting up the extra textures correctly and modifying the appropriate shaders.
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby xenodora » 19 Jun 2016, 09:20

Lonnes {l Wrote}:You are doing a great job !

Thanks.

Lonnes {l Wrote}:Did you notice, that this game had story and lore ?

I was peripherally aware of it, but didn't really dig into it, as the original dev has discontinued use of their original lore, and I was more interested in the engine.

Lonnes {l Wrote}:You are doing a great job so far ! (i don't know what you wanna do with this game but continue on !)

I haven't yet figured out what I want to do with the game yet. I imagine one day my muse will strike, or RL will get too busy and pull me away, but until then I'll steadily make small improvements and fixes.

Lonnes {l Wrote}:If possible, and if you want, we could work on a shared lore (as the base are the same).

I suspect when I do figure out what I want to do with the engine, it will be something very different to the lore in the wiki.
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby xenodora » 19 Jun 2016, 14:30

I've gone and fixed carried torches so that the flames and light come from the head of the torch, and not the bearer's hand.
screenshot-1466260536.jpg

It took me awhile to track down, and at one point I was setting character's heads on fire...
screenshot-1466230520.jpg

The rest of the broken visuals is due to me also breaking shaders while trying to also figure how to get shadow depth and multiple shadow light sources working. While technically I've gotten multiple shadow casting light sources working, it can produce strange visual artefacts, as seen in bottom left of this picture:
screenshot-1466263121.jpg

I haven't committed changes related to shadows, as those changes are a bit of a mess, and I'm not happy with the results, plus I don't have shadow depth working at all.
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby Julius » 20 Jun 2016, 13:53

Try to keep the graphical fidelity moderate, as this could be really awesome in VR (which really pushes the hardware due to stereoscopic rendering and high resolutions).

A fun sandbox, with social VR features a bit like that: https://youtu.be/sK8tMwlZLEM
in a Anime fantasy RPG setting, would be probably pretty awesome and really not that far off given the current feature-set.
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby themightyglider » 20 Jun 2016, 23:44

@Juliu
I like your idea of a sandbox game really much. That would probably the best thing that can be done with the game at its current state.
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby Imerion » 23 Jun 2016, 20:43

Really nice to see you are working on this! I, too, felt this had so much potential - especially as a multiplayer co-op dungeon crawler. Will be interesting so see where it ends up now. ;)
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby toothbrush » 24 Jun 2016, 08:50

"It took me awhile to track down, and at one point I was setting character's heads on fire..." - this is so beautiful, you know
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby xenodora » 25 Jun 2016, 06:45

I've fixed the bug where it would sometimes fail to load pieces of a character's outfit or face.

I've changed the terrain texture atlas so that it that is loaded from separate images, with images auto allocated on the atlas at runtime, instead of the old hard-coded approach.

I've also increased the density of the atlas with 64 possible faces (vs 16 previously). The old approach was wasting 75% of the texture space. A downside to the increased density is that I've had to disable filtering on the texture to prevent bleeding at the boundary between two faces. Filtering can be put into the shader, but I haven't gotten around to trying it yet.

As an experiment I've replaced the brick and wood terrain textures with some LPC style tiles I grabbed from OGA. Although I'd say these look better than what was there previously, added them has highlighted how low res the tiles are. They were 25.6 pixels per world unit/tile before, but I've increased that to 32 pixels per tile. At the moment terrain faces are 128 pixels to a side, so 32 pixels per tile means 4 by 4 tiles per texture face, which allow the addition of small details to break up the uniformity of large stretches of the same terrain. However, this could be changed to 128 pixels per tile, which will give more detail per tile and hopefully remove the heavy pixelation.

As an extra, I've also added a 'steel plate' terrain type and changed the corners of the towers to be made of this. This can be mined for iron ingots. Not sure if I'll keep it, but it adds a little more variety for the moment.

screenshot-1466818352.jpg
screenshot-1466818202.jpg
screenshot-1466819116.jpg

There is a currently known bug where it sometimes won't load the texture atlas and will instead have something random for the atlas. I suspect the texture is being assigned too early (i.e. before the terrain .material file has been loaded), but I haven't had time to investigate and fix it yet. The current work around is to quit (either to the main menu or the desktop) and load the game again.
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby xenodora » 19 Jul 2016, 14:19

I've fixed the bug where it would sometimes fail to load the texture atlas.

I've added rudimentary support for VR.
screenshot-1468853240.jpg
screenshot-1468853411.jpg

At the moment it's experimental, and given I don't actually own a VR headset, I can't fully test, so it's likely to have problems. One obvious bug with this is that the user interface overlays aren't warped along with the screen.
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby Julius » 19 Jul 2016, 15:59

Awesome. Did you use OpenHMD ( https://github.com/OpenHMD/OpenHMD ) for OGRE3D?

See also this thread for more details; the original creator of the OGRE3D version even showed up: viewtopic.php?f=92&t=6908

I hope there will be an open-source VR GUI toolkit soon, as it really isn't trivial to implement one yourself. But does LoS support render to texture, so that you could just display the menu on a in-game surface similar how Doom3 did it the first time back in the day? That should translate to VR quite well.

Edit: If you are developing under Windows, you might be able to test it with RiftCat and a Google Cardboard kit.

Edit2: Uhh, shiny: https://github.com/anilbey/HandVisualiser
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby xenodora » 21 Aug 2016, 11:40

Julius {l Wrote}:Awesome. Did you use OpenHMD ( https://github.com/OpenHMD/OpenHMD ) for OGRE3D?

See also this thread for more details; the original creator of the OGRE3D version even showed up: viewtopic.php?f=92&t=6908

I used OpenHMD and Ogre Occulus ( https://bitbucket.org/rajetic/ogreoculus ) as reference for writing the visual warp filter. Presently I'm not using any libraries to detect any available hardware.

Julius {l Wrote}:I hope there will be an open-source VR GUI toolkit soon, as it really isn't trivial to implement one yourself. But does LoS support render to texture, so that you could just display the menu on a in-game surface similar how Doom3 did it the first time back in the day? That should translate to VR quite well.

I haven't noticed any render to texture in the LoS API yet, but it should be possible to add it if need be. Pushing the UI into 3D space will be a good way to fix it in VR, and possibly also support VR controllers, but it will take time to rework the UI.
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby xenodora » 21 Aug 2016, 12:41

Real life has been keeping me busy, so I haven't had much time to work on LoS but I have managed to add a couple of small features.

The first a simple clipboard. At the moment it only works with the text entry widget, and due to the widget not yet having selection range support, copying will copy all of the text in the widget. I did intend to also integrate it with the OS clipboard, but after looking at what's involved with doing it under X11, I decided to defer that to another day.

The second is a crude console for running Lua commands in the game. I use the term console loosely here, as there is no display buffer of any outputs, and the input simply the text entry widget. The Lua console is opened by pressing the tilde/back quote key, and close by pressing escape. It keeps a history of previous commands, which can be scrolled back through pressing alt-P and alt-N. This history is saved and reloaded between sessions.

screenshot-1471758709.jpg
screenshot-1471758710.jpg
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby xenodora » 29 Aug 2016, 12:42

I've added a couple of bugfixes:

The first is that terrain outside of visual range was being erased when being save on quit. All changes to terrain should now persist.

The second is the bug where the player and other creatures can get stuck and teleported into the void, especially if they're slow moving. The cause behind this is that certain target speeds resulted in NaN's getting into character's physics, which caused Bullet to disable the character and the game to teleport them to 0,0,0.

In the process of fixing the previous bug I added a visualiser for Bullet's debug drawer, using this code with appropriate extension glue logic for Lips of Suna.
screenshot-1472372535.jpg

Having it on really kills the frame rate, but it can be insight as to what's going on, such as the physics shape of many objects is actually upside down, with the most blatant example of this being the table.
screenshot-1472389282.jpg

The default keybind for toggling the physics debugging visualiser is 'L'.
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby charlie » 29 Aug 2016, 22:46

Loving the updates. Long may it continue.
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby freelikegnu » 10 Sep 2016, 20:18

Xenodora's contributions up to 8/29/2016 have been merged into the original repository! Thank you, Xenodora!
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Re: Some bug fixes and improvements

Postby xenodora » 18 Sep 2016, 15:43

I've made a small cosmetic change, that arranges the order of triangles on the terrain to best match the the convex hull that the physics uses under the hood.
In the example pics, the before is on the left and the after is on the right. It reduces the amount of standing on air, and also makes the craters left by self destructing fire imps a little nicer.
stick-reshape-1.jpg
stick-reshape-2.jpg


I've spent some time re-exporting models to fix problems with bad physic models. In the process I fixed a bug in the exporter that caused it to use the wrong UV mapping. I've also fixed the table to use a texture, and added custom physics geometry, so it's a table with proper legs and not a convex hull generated from the render geometry.
screenshot-1474199254.jpg
screenshot-1474199335.jpg
Not all models have been re-exported, so there will still be some with bad or wrong shapes. Some models will also need custom physics geometry added to them so they behave better (some have too much fine detail due to their render geometry, or the convex hull shape is a poor fit (particularly on chairs)).

In doing the above, I've discovered how little your companion cares for furniture in her effort to stay close to you.

Finally I've been working on improving the source code documentation, by documenting classes in more detail, and adding a main page to given an overview of the code base. The exercise might be a case of the blind leading the blind, but its helpful to me to better learn the code base, and hopefully useful to otherwise wanting to dabble with it.
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