0.2.x release announcements and discussion

[amuzen]

0.2.0 has been released. It's a major feature release that provides a number of new gameplay additions such as new quests, mining of ores, working armor, and vastly improved random maps. There's still a lot of work to do but it's a big step closer to the game hopefully going alpha and becoming playable later this year.

I have tried a couple of new things this time. I built an experimental Windows binary and released it alongside the source tarball and the Ubuntu packages. Stats showed that there were lots of Windows users checking out the game so I thought that it might be worth a shot now since the gameplay is getting somewhere. I also tried to record a gameplay video and embed it to the project website, as well as uploaded a bit more screenshots than before.

Feel free to post anything related to the 0.2.x series here. Since the project has no testers currently, I'd be interested in at least knowing how well the new Windows binary works and if things work in general.

[charlie]

I downloaded the Windows binary and tried it.

I went to 'host' game. The menu background never disappeared. Although I can interact with the 3D world, I can not see it, just the Lips of Suna logo, the compass, and the available action (e.g. Use).

I can attach an image if it helps, but since it's just the logo/bg with the UI on top of it, it probably wouldn't.

[charlie]

The music is really nice though!

[TheAncientGoat]

I just updated to LoS 0.2 from the PPA, works excellently. Better performance, a lot more fun, and the smaller block size is really working well for me. The UI is still not that intuitive or pretty; I'm not sure how feats work (can't figure out how to build stuff) and the animations are deeply in the uncanny valley..

[amuzen]

I went to 'host' game. The menu background never disappeared. Although I can interact with the 3D world, I can not see it, just the Lips of Suna logo, the compass, and the available action (e.g. Use).

Could you check if the game created stdout.txt or stderr.txt files into the top level directory of the package and if any error messages were printed into them? Knowing which graphics card you have and how recent your drivers are might also be useful.

I just updated to LoS 0.2 from the PPA, works excellently. Better performance, a lot more fun, and the smaller block size is really working well for me. The UI is still not that intuitive or pretty; I'm not sure how feats work (can't figure out how to build stuff) and the animations are deeply in the uncanny valley..

Yeah, the UI and controls in general still need a lot of work. Inventory management is outrageously clumsy and there's no way to avoid it since you can't bind shortcuts to items yet. The feat system probably wouldn't be of much use currently even if you knew how to use it since healing is the only really useful feat that can be created. Mining, building, and crafting also have several issues that can make them annoying to use. Well, let's hope they'll get better in next release.

[charlie]

I have a Mobility Radeon 4250 HD on Windows 7 64bit. The graphics card has OpenGL 3.2 support according to (edit: probably wrong ->) its specifications. I last updated the driver in October but it appears there's an update from December. I'll try that.

There is no sterr.txt, and stout.txt doesn't contain anything informative. Just a bunch of % updates on randomizing primary paths etc until 'Done'.

[charlie]

Same problem after updating the driver.

3D graphics never display. So the character creation screen only shows the menubg and widgets i.e. no character. Also, the UI seems sluggish, and clicking on the character height 1) disconnected me from the [localhost] server and 2) broke the create button (possibly a symptom of #1).

Still nothing in stdout.txt and no stderr.txt.

It is possible that the Mobility Radeon (amd m880g chipset) does not support OpenGL 3.2 as the previously linked specs were for a different (but similarly) named card. Still, perhaps there should be some kind of detection? FWIW, many other 3D applications work well. Perhaps you might think about using a graphics engine (like http://www.ogre3d.org or http://www.crystalspace.org) so that suckers without OpenGL support (but DirectX support) can be included.

[amuzen]

Your graphics card should be good as far as I know. I have an AMD card too that isn't very different to yours so it's strange that it works fine for me but not you. I only tested in Windows XP 32-bit, though, so it's possible that I might have messed up something that breaks in Windows 7. I guess I should try to get my hands on a Windows 7 machine and test the binary on it.

[charlie]

Could be a 64bit issue as well.

[Venn]

config file?

Loaded th game to give it a go using the PPA. For the life of me I cannot locate the general config file (I need to disable VSYNC)

Cheers,
Venn

[amuzen]

There's no config file currently and VSYNC can't be disabled without modifying the source code. If you have a good reason why you need it disabled, I can make it configurable in the next release.

[Venn]

Bug /w/ Nvidia 9500 that causes a black screen.

Was going to give it a capture for L.G.C.

Thanks for the info,
Venn

[amuzen]

Ah, in that case I'm going to disable it by default. It's no good if the game isn't usable at all with the default settings.

[amuzen]

OK, it's fixed in the git repository now and will be in the next release. The values of the options screen will also be saved and restored so people who want to configure VSYNC or the other options only need to do it once.

[nitroflow]

I've successfully compiled the source but get the following error messages when executing:

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

[nitroflow@localhost lipsofsuna-0.2.0]$ ./lipsofsuna
ERROR: OpenGL 3.2 isn't supported by your graphics card -> cannot initialize module `graphics'
ERROR: extension `render' can only be used by the client -> cannot initialize module `render'
ERROR: extension `widgets' can only be used by the client -> cannot initialize module `widgets'
ERROR: ...psofsuna-0.2.0/data/default/scripts/client/label.lua:1: attempt to index global 'Widgets' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
   ...psofsuna-0.2.0/data/default/scripts/client/label.lua:1: in main chunk
   [C]: in function 'oldrequire'
   ...Jogos/lipsofsuna-0.2.0/data/default/scripts/main.lua:7: in function 'require'
   ...psofsuna-0.2.0/data/default/scripts/client/entry.lua:1: in main chunk
   [C]: in function 'oldrequire'
   ...Jogos/lipsofsuna-0.2.0/data/default/scripts/main.lua:7: in function 'require'
   ...ipsofsuna-0.2.0/data/default/scripts/client/main.lua:16: in main chunk
   [C]: in function 'oldrequire'
   ...Jogos/lipsofsuna-0.2.0/data/default/scripts/main.lua:7: in function 'require'
   ...Jogos/lipsofsuna-0.2.0/data/default/scripts/main.lua:11: in main chunk

The videocard is a Nvidia Geforce 8600M GS and the drivers OpenGL information is the following:

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

Vendor:           NVIDIA Corporation
Renderer:         GeForce 8600M GS/PCI/SSE2
Version:          3.3.0 NVIDIA 270.18
Extensions:       GL_ARB_blend_func_extended
                  GL_ARB_color_buffer_float
                  GL_ARB_compatibility
                  GL_ARB_copy_buffer
                  GL_ARB_depth_buffer_float
                  GL_ARB_depth_clamp
                  GL_ARB_depth_texture
                  GL_ARB_draw_buffers
                  GL_ARB_draw_elements_base_vertex
                  GL_ARB_draw_instanced
                  GL_ARB_ES2_compatibility
                  GL_ARB_explicit_attrib_location
                  GL_ARB_fragment_coord_conventions
                  GL_ARB_fragment_program
                  GL_ARB_fragment_program_shadow
                  GL_ARB_fragment_shader
                  GL_ARB_framebuffer_object
                  GL_ARB_framebuffer_sRGB
                  GL_ARB_geometry_shader4
                  GL_ARB_get_program_binary
                  GL_ARB_half_float_pixel
                  GL_ARB_half_float_vertex
                  GL_ARB_imaging
                  GL_ARB_instanced_arrays
                  GL_ARB_map_buffer_range
                  GL_ARB_multisample
                  GL_ARB_multitexture
                  GL_ARB_occlusion_query
                  GL_ARB_occlusion_query2
                  GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object
                  GL_ARB_point_parameters
                  GL_ARB_point_sprite
                  GL_ARB_provoking_vertex
                  GL_ARB_robustness
                  GL_ARB_sampler_objects
                  GL_ARB_seamless_cube_map
                  GL_ARB_separate_shader_objects
                  GL_ARB_shader_bit_encoding
                  GL_ARB_shader_objects
                  GL_ARB_shading_language_100
                  GL_ARB_shading_language_include
                  GL_ARB_shadow
                  GL_ARB_sync
                  GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp
                  GL_ARB_texture_buffer_object
                  GL_ARB_texture_compression
                  GL_ARB_texture_compression_rgtc
                  GL_ARB_texture_cube_map
                  GL_ARB_texture_env_add
                  GL_ARB_texture_env_combine
                  GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar
                  GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3
                  GL_ARB_texture_float
                  GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat
                  GL_ARB_texture_multisample
                  GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two
                  GL_ARB_texture_rectangle
                  GL_ARB_texture_rg
                  GL_ARB_texture_rgb10_a2ui
                  GL_ARB_texture_swizzle
                  GL_ARB_timer_query
                  GL_ARB_transpose_matrix
                  GL_ARB_uniform_buffer_object
                  GL_ARB_vertex_array_bgra
                  GL_ARB_vertex_array_object
                  GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object
                  GL_ARB_vertex_program
                  GL_ARB_vertex_shader
                  GL_ARB_vertex_type_2_10_10_10_rev
                  GL_ARB_viewport_array
                  GL_ARB_window_pos
                  GL_ATI_draw_buffers
                  GL_ATI_texture_float
                  GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once
                  GL_S3_s3tc
                  GL_EXT_texture_env_add
                  GL_EXT_abgr
                  GL_EXT_bgra
                  GL_EXT_bindable_uniform
                  GL_EXT_blend_color
                  GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate
                  GL_EXT_blend_func_separate
                  GL_EXT_blend_minmax
                  GL_EXT_blend_subtract
                  GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array
                  GL_EXT_Cg_shader
                  GL_EXT_depth_bounds_test
                  GL_EXT_direct_state_access
                  GL_EXT_draw_buffers2
                  GL_EXT_draw_instanced
                  GL_EXT_draw_range_elements
                  GL_EXT_fog_coord
                  GL_EXT_framebuffer_blit
                  GL_EXT_framebuffer_multisample
                  GL_EXTX_framebuffer_mixed_formats
                  GL_EXT_framebuffer_object
                  GL_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB
                  GL_EXT_geometry_shader4
                  GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters
                  GL_EXT_gpu_shader4
                  GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays
                  GL_EXT_packed_depth_stencil
                  GL_EXT_packed_float
                  GL_EXT_packed_pixels
                  GL_EXT_pixel_buffer_object
                  GL_EXT_point_parameters
                  GL_EXT_provoking_vertex
                  GL_EXT_rescale_normal
                  GL_EXT_secondary_color
                  GL_EXT_separate_shader_objects
                  GL_EXT_separate_specular_color
                  GL_EXT_shadow_funcs
                  GL_EXT_stencil_two_side
                  GL_EXT_stencil_wrap
                  GL_EXT_texture3D
                  GL_EXT_texture_array
                  GL_EXT_texture_buffer_object
                  GL_EXT_texture_compression_dxt1
                  GL_EXT_texture_compression_latc
                  GL_EXT_texture_compression_rgtc
                  GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc
                  GL_EXT_texture_cube_map
                  GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp
                  GL_EXT_texture_env_combine
                  GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3
                  GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic
                  GL_EXT_texture_format_BGRA8888
                  GL_EXT_texture_integer
                  GL_EXT_texture_lod
                  GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias
                  GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp
                  GL_EXT_texture_object
                  GL_EXT_texture_shared_exponent
                  GL_EXT_texture_sRGB
                  GL_EXT_texture_swizzle
                  GL_EXT_texture_type_2_10_10_10_REV
                  GL_EXT_timer_query
                  GL_EXT_vertex_array
                  GL_EXT_vertex_array_bgra
                  GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip
                  GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat
                  GL_KTX_buffer_region
                  GL_NV_alpha_test
                  GL_NV_blend_minmax
                  GL_NV_blend_square
                  GL_NV_complex_primitives
                  GL_NV_conditional_render
                  GL_NV_copy_depth_to_color
                  GL_NV_copy_image
                  GL_NV_depth_buffer_float
                  GL_NV_depth_clamp
                  GL_NV_explicit_multisample
                  GL_NV_fbo_color_attachments
                  GL_NV_fence
                  GL_NV_float_buffer
                  GL_NV_fog_distance
                  GL_NV_fragdepth
                  GL_NV_fragment_program
                  GL_NV_fragment_program_option
                  GL_NV_fragment_program2
                  GL_NV_framebuffer_multisample_coverage
                  GL_NV_geometry_shader4
                  GL_NV_gpu_program4
                  GL_NV_half_float
                  GL_NV_light_max_exponent
                  GL_NV_multisample_coverage
                  GL_NV_multisample_filter_hint
                  GL_NV_occlusion_query
                  GL_NV_packed_depth_stencil
                  GL_NV_parameter_buffer_object
                  GL_NV_parameter_buffer_object2
                  GL_NV_pixel_data_range
                  GL_NV_point_sprite
                  GL_NV_primitive_restart
                  GL_NV_register_combiners
                  GL_NV_register_combiners2
                  GL_NV_shader_buffer_load
                  GL_NV_texgen_reflection
                  GL_NV_texture_barrier
                  GL_NV_texture_compression_vtc
                  GL_NV_texture_env_combine4
                  GL_NV_texture_expand_normal
                  GL_NV_texture_lod_clamp
                  GL_NV_texture_multisample
                  GL_NV_texture_rectangle
                  GL_NV_texture_shader
                  GL_NV_texture_shader2
                  GL_NV_texture_shader3
                  GL_NV_transform_feedback
                  GL_NV_vdpau_interop
                  GL_NV_vertex_array_range
                  GL_NV_vertex_array_range2
                  GL_NV_vertex_buffer_unified_memory
                  GL_NV_vertex_program
                  GL_NV_vertex_program1_1
                  GL_NV_vertex_program2
                  GL_NV_vertex_program2_option
                  GL_NV_vertex_program3
                  GL_NVX_conditional_render
                  GL_NVX_gpu_memory_info
                  GL_OES_depth24
                  GL_OES_depth32
                  GL_OES_depth_texture
                  GL_OES_element_index_uint
                  GL_OES_fbo_render_mipmap
                  GL_OES_get_program_binary
                  GL_OES_mapbuffer
                  GL_OES_packed_depth_stencil
                  GL_OES_rgb8_rgba8
                  GL_OES_standard_derivatives
                  GL_OES_texture_3D
                  GL_OES_texture_float
                  GL_OES_texture_float_linear
                  GL_OES_texture_half_float
                  GL_OES_texture_half_float_linear
                  GL_OES_texture_npot
                  GL_OES_vertex_array_object
                  GL_OES_vertex_half_float
                  GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap
                  GL_SGIS_texture_lod
                  GL_SGIX_depth_texture
                  GL_SGIX_shadow
                  GL_SUN_slice_accum


So I should be OK. What may be the problem?

[amuzen]

Which version of GLEW do you have? It looks like they had some bugs in older releases that could make the version check fail. Upgrading GLEW to the latest version might do it.

[nitroflow]

The version of GLEW that I have installed is the latest version available on my distro(Mandriva 2010.2) repositories - 1.5.2 - which should be ok but since 1.5.3 fixes some bugs and adds 3 new extensions, according to the GLEW site, I guess that might be the problem.

[tweek]

I've installed the game from PPA but it didn't start: "OpenGL 3.2 isn't supported by your graphics card".

Is the requirement of opengl 3.2 really necessary?

[amuzen]

Is the requirement of opengl 3.2 really necessary?

Unless someone contributes the code needed to support older versions, it's going to stay the way it's now. Based on how many people already have supported hardware, how long it'll take until the game is stable, and how much work it would be, I don't think it's worth it. However, if someone else wanted to do it regardless, I'd be glad to include the code.

[KroArtem]

Some feedback from forums:
* People want new hero model (seems like not everybody want to see half-naked loli )
* Somebody find LoS a bit similar to MineCraft
* Textures and HUD are good.
* Some people think you should concentrate on graphics, its optimisation and design.
* Music is good.
* There are only few elements of an RPG-game
* Idea of the project is good, but jumping and moving looks awful.
* Somebody has the same problem with 'ERROR: OpenGL 3.2 isn't supported by your graphics card' but opengl 3.2 is supported by drivers.
* It is possible to make the hero naked.

[amuzen]

Thanks. It looked like the Russian sites had lots of comments indeed. It's quite a lot of nice feedback that should be able to keep us busy for a while. I have been working on the gameplay quite a bit already so expect more RPGish features such as buff and nerf spells, diseases, fast travel, etc. in the next release. The physics and controls will hopefully be a bit less bugged too.

I know people love fancy graphics but give it some time. Character models and the wide variety of object models are a lot of work and our manpower is very limited so we need to prioritize. Currently that means that we still frequently use placeholders and incomplete models. Improving graphics isn't my priority yet so I probably won't spend a lot of time on it until closer to the alpha milestone. However, there's a new guy learning the art pipeline so the progress might speed up a bit regardless.

[Carver413]

Hi
I download and tried out your game although I didn't get very far. its seem the tree's were blocking my way and then I got dead. over all it seem's to work as expected and coming along nicely. the frame rate was quite low 18 fps. this is much lower then expected considering the poly count is quite low. I don't really understand where your going with the dungeons though I see them as very redundant and not an asset to the game. why not use the oblivion approach and build modular parts to construct them. procedural maps sound like a nice Idea but not likely to produce very good results without being able to adjustment them manually. by using modular parts your dungeons will look much better and be more appealing to modder's like myself. overall I think this game has alot of potential if you play your card's right. the thing that would really appeal to a lot of people is if they could each build there own little part of the game and if one was able to move between these worlds and take all of you stuff with you then that would truly be a hit.

[amuzen]

Thanks for the feedback. Indeed, the map still needs a lot of work. The vast majority of the map is currently just tunnels connecting a few special areas that are still almost completely empty. The special areas can already be populated manually and modular map elements can be used in them but these options aren't currently used to their full potential because:

• This is the first version that ships with this map system.
• Map editing is done in a text editor because there's no map editor tool yet.
• We have no developers who have experience in map design.
• We have no graphics for map elements so we use tiles much more than we should.
• We want players to be able to dig and destroy the environment freely but large map elements are an impediment to this. We have yet to determine how the two should be balanced for us to get the best of both features.

Even though the map isn't of much value yet, I think we'll be able to provide an enjoyable experience after enough incremental improvements. It'll take time, though, because designing and populating the special areas and creating the required graphics is a lot of work and they aren't the only things that badly need improvements.

[Carver413]

Perhaps if I understood the purpose of this deformation I would have a clearer picture of where you are atempting to go with this.
are you wanting to dig caves at will or are you attempting to open block passages to get to other places. and have you though about the repetitious factor in all this digging. I'm not trying to discourage you just tring to figure out if I have enough interest in this prodject to lend a hand. I don't program in c.pascal is my thing and some day I'd like to make an rpg engine of my own. but as you well know these things take a long time. I started learning blender when modding oblivion and would like to continue making things for the right prodject. most of the work I have done is making clothing for my female companions and am working on a female body as well. most of these are rather high poly and not sure if you engine is ready for that. are you getting the same frame rate or is it something on my end. I'm not having a problem with the jmonkey or glscene.

[amuzen]

We want players to be able to dig almost anywhere they want and build fortresses and other things from the stones. We aren't making a digging game, though. It's one part of the game and can be ignored by players who find other parts of the gameplay more fun. Similar digging systems have been used in a number of other games with successful results. I think that it can be a fun activity that adds to the feeling of freedom and provides more ways to solve problems if done well.

I get around 80 FPS on average with a Radeon HD 5770 and the current development version of the game. There's quite a lot of room for improvement, especially regarding performance on older cards. I'd like all supported cards to get at least 30 FPS but it's slow to achieve when you have a fast card yourself and no testers using the development version and giving feedback on improvements. It basically takes one release to find out how much each kind of improvement helps. Regardless, we'll get there eventually.

If you liked modding Oblivion, it should be quite easy to get into working on LoS. We aren't making a similar game exactly but the way how character art works is quite similar. Our graphics workflow is easy to use according to our new artist who has been using it for a bit over a week now. There are a few tricks if you want to do more advanced things and not all of them are well documented yet, but in principle you can model the mesh and setup materials normally in Blender and export with one click on a menu item. I think it's easier than modding Oblivion or Fallout 3 simply because you don't need to wrestle with NifScope. I could never get used to that tool.

We're making good progress so the game is rapidly getting more playable and interesting. There's no one bossing around a lot and telling you what to do and not to do so you'll have a good opportunity to work on things you like and take the game to directions you find fun. We even endorse eyecandy and other such nice things so there'll plenty of creative freedom if you want to give us a hand.