charlie {l Wrote}:Nobody is suggesting a screen full of 100 different numbers and switches for each creature. What is being suggested is making it non-trival to have all different creatures in your dungeon, forcing a player to make tactical decisions as to which creatures to build up and rely upon.
Bodsda {l Wrote}:In DK2, I don't remember any special requirements for keeping any 1 creature happy, beyond the basic needs of sleep, food and pay. The only thing that does spring to mind is that if you converted a heroe, you had to put them in a seperate lair or else your creatures would become unhappy.
Whilst I like the general thoughts that charlie has brought up, I would dislike the game to go down the route of micromanaging creature needs
I definately think we should implement the certain creatures being further attrtacted by the terrain you control. DK2 tried to do this with lava/salamanders.
Bodsda
TheAncientGoat {l Wrote}:In DK 1 tentacles needed water tiles, and dragons got benefits for having a lair next to lava tiles. Spiders fought with beetles and flies, skeletons fought with bile demons, wizards fought with vampires. You needed a library for wizards, workshop for bile demons, a training room for goblins and a watchpost for orks, a torture chamber for mistresses and a graveyard for skeletons and vampires. Along with a lot of other variables... But yeah, it wasn't straight forward
StefanP.MUC {l Wrote}:Yes, DK1 had complex creature needs. Some creatures only came when some rooms had a specific size AND a specific location (near water, lava, etc). Horny came if you sacrificed three specific creatures and he only stayed for longer if he had his rooms all for his own.
The gameplay shouldn't become to complex. This is distracting for players (especially new players): who wants to read 100 pages of a strategy manual when he only wants to play a quick round of evil fun?
There should be something like ~5 basic need for any creature: Gold, Sleep, Room, list of Likes and list of Dislikes. The Likes and Dislikes include things like: Availability of specific terrain (water, lava, ...), creatures, enemies, ... - everything that is not on either list is Neutral to this creature (doesn't affect it at all).
Danimal {l Wrote}:LOL
I agree on pre-requesites to get some advanced units, but i like more the DK1 approach, mostly based on room types and sizes. While DK1 is fun to play, DK2 get irritating because of creatures complaining of hunger just cause they can drag their asses fast enough to the hatchery (and all the other reasons). I say keep it simple, if for example a tentacle enter your dungeon, make it happier if he has water to take a dip, but as long as he has his basic needs covered he shoulnd be unhappy.
Bodsda {l Wrote}:TheAncientGoat {l Wrote}:Saying "I like dungeon building" but then "I don't like to make sure my Bile Demon is fed" is kind of contradictory. Building your dungeon well ensures that your bile demon would get fed, that's the point, the challenge. DK /is/ a pet sim, and that's what separated it from being a dumb RTS, the reason why it is a classic game, much more than any other element.
If you don't like it, we could code in cheats or different game modes to disable such aspects, but I really, really, really think making a shallow game that doesn't have any challenge won't really be rewarding fun.
Bodsda {l Wrote}:Bodsda {l Wrote}:TheAncientGoat {l Wrote}:Saying "I like dungeon building" but then "I don't like to make sure my Bile Demon is fed" is kind of contradictory. Building your dungeon well ensures that your bile demon would get fed, that's the point, the challenge. DK /is/ a pet sim, and that's what separated it from being a dumb RTS, the reason why it is a classic game, much more than any other element.
If you don't like it, we could code in cheats or different game modes to disable such aspects, but I really, really, really think making a shallow game that doesn't have any challenge won't really be rewarding fun.
The bile deamon should feed himself, or else im gonna slap him till he's half dead and drop him in my prison until I hear that beautiful commentry "A creature has died in your prison, and has risen as a Skeleton.", or, I'll drop him and 5 goblins into a graveyard, lock the entrances and slap them till they are all dead... wait for a few minutes until they start to decay, then drop an imp in there to bury them all so I get Vampires (/me is now planning to play DK2 when he gets home )
You spent all your time watching to make sure your bile deamons where walking to the hatchery?
Yes DK had an element of pet sim, but it was not its primary goal by a long shot. You couldnt stroke your goblins and tuck them into bed. If you wanted them to sleep but they wanted to train, you got ignored. The fact that you could feed your creatures didnt mean you should feed all of your creatures by hand, it was just a fun element. Nothing negative happened if you didnt feed them yourself.
The reason (imho) that DK2 was such a success was the evil comic gameplay and the artwork. If you had to micromanage your creatures, the gameplay aspect has just been thrown out of the window.
Bodsda
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