[Map] cutec v1.6

[Map] cutec v1.6

Postby raiden » 23 Mar 2012, 21:09

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cutec 1.6 latest
cutec v1.5
cutec 1.4
cutec 1.3
cutec 1.2
cutec 1.1
cutec 1.03
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because I was asked:
cutec 1.01
cutec 1.02

description
It's a classical ctf-map in futuristic style, playing maybe in cyberspace.
Updates will follow, but this can last a while :) .


changelog

changes since 1.5:

_improved textures
_improved lights and removed unescessary ones
_simplyfied geometry descreetingly again
_decreased the number of octreenodes to ~ 990000
_decreased number of triangles to the number of 93k
_added important parts of waypoints for bots, works much better now
_decreased filesize again

changes since 1.4:

_removed deathzones and "lightning effects" inside the bases
_rebuild geometry all around the map, for a kind of "defragmentation" of the map (for the use of bigger gridsizes)
_redesigned and retextured some details / changed geometry details in parts
_fixed some texture errors
_changed clipping material (alpha, clips, noclips, water)
_freed more than 100000 octreenodes
_decreased number of triangles to the number of 102k
_decreased filesize again
_experimented with botwaypoints

changes since 1.3:

_decreased geometry again, retexturation after that
_decreased/changed clipping material
_decreased number of octreenodes
_decreased number of triangles
_small changes for the bot's waypoints

changes since 1.2:

_many small optimizations: geometrics and texturing
_implemented waypoints for bots again
_added diverse weapons to the middle platform
_reduced clipping material: the number of octreenodes could be reduced from huge 10 millions to big ~1,5 mio thanks goes to Karoushi


changes since 1.1:

_removed alphalevel on the platforms
_changed and simplified texturing in parts
_changed/removed/simplified geometric details
_simplified weapon and jumppads
_set lightprecision to 64
_fixed diverse texture issues

removed wpt - file (waypoints for bots) until we can fix an occuring error here


changes since 1.03:

_reduced details in both: geometrics and texturing
_many details have changed, while the preservation of original style had priority
_rearranged waypoints for bots
_removed some tiny glitches

changes since 1.02:

_changed soundradius of the lightning in the middle
_removed spawner particles and triggers
_made completely new botpathes
_removed a wrong texture
_removed some decent details
_added clips to the sides of the platforms
_added a clipbox around the battleground

changes since 1.01:

_added new alphalevel to the platforms ground, including complex geometrical work (which was necessary)
_deleted many glitches and wrong textures
_tuned cloudbox and fog
_added a cloudlayer and an envlayer
_added missing textures to the light-triangle in the blue base
_added missing black texture to a projector over the doortunnel in both, red and blue bases
_removed the light particle square and added a geometrical one instead
_more glassy laser walkways, blued it up in the blue base, including blue laser particles
_added 6 more respawners (and playerstarts,...) for more variety
_corrected the position of the portal on the middleplattform and changed a texture
_fine-tuning on pushers (needs maybe still adjustments)
_changed yellow lights into more orange ones
_changed warp effects, while jumping to another platform (removed triggers, relinked particles directly back to pushers)
_added and deleted some of the botpathes
_deleted some lights, the one behind the buildings e.g.(no one will miss them), hoping this will help to better the framerates
_sounds: added some decent ones and changed radiuses here and there

changes since 1.0:

_deleted graphical glitches in 4 cases
Last edited by raiden on 07 Oct 2012, 12:15, edited 28 times in total.
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Re: cutec 1.0 first map version

Postby Fallen » 23 Mar 2012, 21:11

Damn it. Screenshot looks great! I'm goin' to check it!

I think that 'standing on the air' looks very strange (like on screenshot below):

Image

I think that it will be better if you will make one colored texture on it, with high transparency (to let newbies see that they can stand there).
Sentenced to the Eternal Damnation...

BloodFrontier...

+++ Sorry for my English +++
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Re: cutec 1.0 first map version

Postby raiden » 23 Mar 2012, 21:30

Hey Fallen, you are not the first one who mentioned that, one more reason, to plan a change there - like already posted in my points. Someday it will happen I think :| .
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Re: cutec 1.0 first map version

Postby Julius » 23 Mar 2012, 22:47

*likes* should become part of the official distribution ASAP.
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete” - Buckminster Fuller
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Re: cutec 1.0 first map version

Postby Dratz-_C » 24 Mar 2012, 00:01

One point zero is good Raiden. I like the top areas, which I did not find before. I understand if you are done with the layout. I just thought it might be neat to have something underneath on the bottom rung in the backs of the upside-down pyramids. A rocket (and rifle?) per side instead of the snipe teleport area I talked about earlier might be easier for you.
The framerate went down for me some since the last version I played. This being so, I am definitely on the bandwagon for _geometrics and lighting: changes, to optimize framerates. I would like to get 30fps everywhere on the map and I get 13fps at worst in the corner with the sword facing the rest of the map. If this is unclear, I can elaborate.
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Re: cutec 1.0 first map version

Postby fawstoar » 24 Mar 2012, 01:51

Oooo! I may just take a video of this!
-Wasabi
Map flythroughs, RE trailers, etc: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL67578B2BCD99FB7B
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Re: cutec 1.01 first map version

Postby Ulukai » 24 Mar 2012, 17:28

Raiden, you did a very nice job already with this map, congratulations! It really looks spectacular, you are using the cube 2 engine on a very creative way, it's looking stunning.

I agree with the above comment that the skytexture which you use as the outside floor isn't a good option because it's very confusing. Also, when you crouch you should be able to look through the skytexture to see the yellow platform, but it'sn not rendered. The engine just renders skybox and it's not working like a glass surface to look through... By the way, nice skybox ;) You could try to use an dark (vcolor 0.2 0.2 0.2) alphablended ectoplasma texture here, or something similar.

Some more points I noticed:

1. there are not many playerstarts (4 in each base?) which may be a problem on instagib matches: they are easy to locate and you get killed immediately.

2. I think this alpha blended panel texture looks strange. Maybe go for something more glassy?
screenshot.0001.jpeg

3. The particle effects dure a tad too long. This shot is taken a few seconds after landing and turning around. Maybe make 'em disappear when a player has landed?
screenshot.0002.jpeg

Anyway, these are small points but it's incredible what you made here already! :)
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Re: cutec 1.01 first map version

Postby Ulukai » 24 Mar 2012, 20:51

I'm also updating my server (Ulukai's Killing Ground) to inculde this map for testing. To do so, download it and put it in your maps folder, then vote for it from the voting menu just like you do for other maps. It should be OK in a couple of minutes ;)
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Re: cutec 1.01 first map version

Postby Boognish » 25 Mar 2012, 19:04

Awesome map!
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Re: cutec 1.01 first map version

Postby raiden » 28 Mar 2012, 13:08

Thanks to all for constructive critics and kind words :). Special thanks to Ulukai for more detailed points I can go through (and for your hints about the skybox ;)). That helps a lot. I'll do my best to make the map a little bit better. It can just need a while, because my compi has some problems at the moment. I hope I will be able to solve these problems. So I can need a bit of luck :D. I'll give more Informations at a later time.
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Re: cutec 1.01 first map version

Postby Ulukai » 29 Mar 2012, 14:31

You're welcome Raiden. I have another tip for you if you would like to add a more personal touch to your skybox, because basically it's exactly the same as my latest map at this point. You could try to add a spinning cloudlayer (like done in the map Ubik) and a spinning envlayer (same as a cloudlayer, but just a second layer that you could position at the bottom) or a fogdome. It's just an idea, if you play around with it a bit you might end up with something that you like ;)

Then I have 1 more question: in the blue base, there is one red spot which I'm not sure whether you kept it red intentionally or whether you forgot to color it blue... It is the alpha blended piece of walkway with the panel texture that looks strange to me (see my first screenshot of my previous post).

Let me know when you have a new version out, I'll update my server accordingly.
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Re: cutec 1.01 first map version

Postby raiden » 29 Mar 2012, 20:15

Ulukai {l Wrote}:You're welcome Raiden. I have another tip for you if you would like to add a more personal touch to your skybox, because basically it's exactly the same as my latest map at this point. You could try to add a spinning cloudlayer (like done in the map Ubik) and a spinning envlayer (same as a cloudlayer, but just a second layer that you could position at the bottom) or a fogdome. It's just an idea, if you play around with it a bit you might end up with something that you like ;)

Then I have 1 more question: in the blue base, there is one red spot which I'm not sure whether you kept it red intentionally or whether you forgot to color it blue... It is the alpha blended piece of walkway with the panel texture that looks strange to me (see my first screenshot of my previous post).

Let me know when you have a new version out, I'll update my server accordingly.


A new release could last one or rather two weeks I think, I'm not sure. Thank you for inspirations according to the skybox, I'll try to play around a bit, how you said. Maybe I get a good result, or I will look for some help here. The red walkway was no mistake, it was more an artistic decision. It wouldn't be to hard to recolour it into blue including the laser effects. Maybe I will try the blue version out and decide after that again :).
The map is like a sculpture, the basics are done, now I'm working on the fine-tuning. Your help contributes for the completion.
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Re: cutec 1.02 map version

Postby raiden » 05 Apr 2012, 21:29

For the eager people here: I post an updated version of the map, although this is still NOT the final version.
I didn't include a clipbox around the level until now, because RE crashed, when i tried this. Maybe I scratch the border of the allowed polygons,
or my memory isn't big enough. I found a way, to get my goal, by saving, after each step of change and reload after the last crash, but I gave up
when I lost to much time by this method. So the clips will come later.

cutec ver. 1.02 - download

In four points, I could need some help:

1.)Usually the map runs fine, with enough frames to play, but Sometimes the screen freezes and it seems that the computer reloads data (some
secounds), before it continues. Which could be the best way to push the performance of the map ? Reducing lights, geometrics ? What else could I
do, because I don't want to destroy to much of my work ? Does removing of animated textures, and reducing of particle effects help, or makes it
no sense ?

2.)It would be nice, to have a sound with effects at the playerstart. My method you'll realize on the spawnpads (particles linked trigger), isn't
really good. The game gives automatically these things to the start, but mostly it seems only to happen when the player spawns for the first
time. Who knows more about it, or has an idea ?

3.)The jumppad from reds base platform to the middle tends sometimes to catapult the player to high up to the air, instead of throwing him in the
adjusted angle. It's difficult to find a good solution for me. Maybe somebody knows how to solve this.(I tried many things, like setting a 2nd
pusher behind the first, change position and settings of the pusher, nothing helped really). Although mostly it works correct, it would be better
to have a full working jumppad.

(4.)Could I allow the rocketlauncher to spawn in each Instagib game (also offline), or is that controlled by server/ gamesettings only ?)

... thanks ..

ImageImage

PS: Ulukai, thank you for support. You can upload the map to your server, but it's not necessary, because I will need to get more frames on the map.
After reducing some things, it's more useful to take the next version maybe. However, you decide. <(-_-)>
Last edited by raiden on 06 Apr 2012, 13:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: cutec 1.02 map version

Postby Ulukai » 06 Apr 2012, 10:39

Great to hear that you picked up development of this already great looking map again. I can't test anything right now because I am at the office, but will try to answer some of your questions nevertheless.

raiden {l Wrote}:1.)Usually the map runs fine, with enough frames to play, but Sometimes the screen freezes and it seems that the computer reloads data (some
secounds), before it continues. Which could be the best way to push the performance of the map ? Reducing lights, geometrics ? What else could I
do, because I don't want to destroy to much of my work ? Does removing of animated textures, and reducing of particle effects help, or makes it
no sense ?

I think I noticed the same thing in your map as well. I thought it was a hiccup of my PC, but if you get it as well, it will be disturbing for everyone who plays the map, certainly people with older hardware... What exactly causes this, I can't tell, but you notice the best which part of your map is the heaviest when you enter edit mode and look around a bit. Where you get the lowest FPS, you can start changing some of the details. But yet it is strange: I don't have low FPS on your map (my computer is a beast :p) but I had the hiccups from time to time...

raiden {l Wrote}:2.)It would be nice, to have a sound with effects at the playerstart. My method you'll realize on the spawnpads (particles linked trigger), isn't
really good. The game gives automatically these things to the start, but mostly it seems only to happen when the player spawns for the first
time. Who knows more about it, or has an idea ?

I'm not sure about this, but have you tried linking both the sound entity and the particle entity to the playerstart entity?

raiden {l Wrote}:3.)The jumppad from reds base platform to the middle tends sometimes to catapult the player to high up to the air, instead of throwing him in the
adjusted angle. It's difficult to find a good solution for me. Maybe somebody knows how to solve this.(I tried many things, like setting a 2nd
pusher behind the first, change position and settings of the pusher, nothing helped really). Although mostly it works correct, it would be better
to have a full working jumppad.

Using a second pusher just behind the first one doesn't sound like a sane solution. If I were you, I would go for the absolute pushers. I used them on my map Conflist as well, you can study them to get an idea how they work. I comes down to this: conditional and redirectional pushers behave different dependant on the player's speed. An absolute pusher always uses a vast amount of force to push in the defined direction.

Pusher Type:
0 (conditional) will only apply a force if the velocity on each axis to which it is applying it to is below the amount threshold.
1 (additional) will add the force to the current velocity.
2 (redirectional) will take the current velocity and redirect it into the pusher direction and apply the force.
3 (absolute) will simply replace the current velocity with the pusher direction and force."

raiden {l Wrote}:(4.)Could I allow the rocketlauncher to spawn in each Instagib game (also offline), or is that controlled by server/ gamesettings only ?)

You should edit the RL entity to define the gametype(s) you want it to be in. But beware that the server command "rocketallow" can explicitly make appear or disappear the RL in instagib. I hope this information is correct and complete, but I'm not 100% sure about this one.

raiden {l Wrote}:PS: Ulukai, thank you for support. You can upload the map to your server, but it's not necessary, because I will need to get more frames on the map.
After reducing some things, it's more useful to take the next version maybe. However, you decide. <(-_-)>

I will try to keep the server updated with every release you make, this one as well. It will be done this evening or in the course of the weekend.
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Re: cutec 1.02 map version

Postby raiden » 06 Apr 2012, 13:27

Hey, the first problem is solved so far. The simple information about pusher attributes did it. That was my fault, I had to inform me better :| . So I reuploaded the files for a small download correction with absolute pushers for the platform to platform jump. This works fine now. The other problems will take a longer while, although the rocketlauncher shouldn't be the biggest part :). The "hiccups" will make use of the main work.

The spawn effects: they are not really important. It was more an idea, because of the spawnpads I have build. There are only triggers linked to particles at the moment, more to remember me to the idea, than a plan to insist on it, this way.

I'm sorry, when I'm absent for some days without the opportunity to post something, because I was invited to someone for the easter days.
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Re: cutec 1.02 map version

Postby Ulukai » 06 Apr 2012, 14:50

I'm glad it helped for you. Good luck witht he other open points and have a nice Easter :)
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Re: cutec 1.02 map version

Postby Ulukai » 10 Apr 2012, 20:37

I updated my server to v1.02 and also wanted to tell you that the small adjustments to the skybox are very pretty :) Also the outside terrasses are better with the new texture, but instead of combining the transparant texture with the skybox texture, why not just use the transparant texture? Otherwise it is a bit weird in some cases when you should see other buildings under the walkway, it's simply not rendered due to the skybox texture... If you don't understand what I mean, I can provide a screenshot to clarify, let me know :)

Any progress on the hiccups?
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Re: cutec 1.02 map version

Postby raiden » 11 Apr 2012, 19:02

Hi,
Ulukai {l Wrote}:I updated my server to v1.02 and also wanted to tell you that the small adjustments to the skybox are very pretty :)

thanks a lot again here :) .

Also the outside terrasses are better with the new texture, but instead of combining the transparant texture with the skybox texture, why not just use the transparant texture? Otherwise it is a bit weird in some cases when you should see other buildings under the walkway, it's simply not rendered due to the skybox texture... If you don't understand what I mean, I can provide a screenshot to clarify, let me know :)

I can imagine what you mean here, but I don't know how you would do that. Maybe a screenshot or an explanation could clarify that, yes. In my opinion a look through the ground isn't really nessecary. I see it more like a mirrored glass-ground. Because of that I gave the same speed and direction to both, the cloudlayer and envlayer. This gives the illusion that it is mirrored. The secound reason for my point of view is the kind of building the platforms, which have an opaque surface, where you can't look through (at the bottom). Maybe you can convince me to change that ?

Any progress on the hiccups?

I tried to get a clipbox around the level, but I failed again. After crashing RE many times I decided to let it as it is, without that box. I saw another regular map (can't remember the name atm) which has also no clipbox - another reason for me to let it. What I did instead was to clip the platforms sides, to hinder the player to camp to much with the sniper there. Strangely the hiccups seems to belong to the past since that step. I don't know why, but that makes me happy until now :).
Besides that the frames on the map are still not the best. I'll see what to do. ...

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Re: cutec 1.02 map version

Postby wowie » 11 Apr 2012, 20:59

Very nice looking map. I like it. A lot. Not a little. A lot.
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Re: cutec 1.02 map version

Postby Ulukai » 12 Apr 2012, 10:13

Aaah if the surface is meant to be a mirror, I understand and it makes a lot more sense :) You don't have to change anything for me personally, it's your map so you have it your way ;)

If you send me the latest version of you map, I can try to make the clipbox around the map for you... Let's see if my game crashes then as well.
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Re: cutec 1.02 map version

Postby qreeves » 12 Apr 2012, 11:58

The most likely reason for the game crashing when attempting to clip the level is using too small a grid size to do so. In most cases it is actually a better idea to enlarge the map and clip the edges using a larger grid size. When the map is actually finished, I will take a better look at it and see what I can do.
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Re: cutec 1.02 map version

Postby raiden » 13 Apr 2012, 11:51

wowie {l Wrote}:Very nice looking map. I like it. A lot. Not a little. A lot.

Ah thanks, I see that you are also working on an own project - good luck for this :) .

Ulukai {l Wrote}:Aaah if the surface is meant to be a mirror, I understand and it makes a lot more sense :) You don't have to change anything for me personally, it's your map so you have it your way ;)

If you send me the latest version of you map, I can try to make the clipbox around the map for you... Let's see if my game crashes then as well.
You can use the mail button on the right side of this post.


Because of qreeves intervention I know the reason for the crashes now. Surely you get the same results. He told me how to solve this (enlarge the map), but that seems to be very difficult, because my buildings are still in the edge of the whole map then and I have to move everything to the middle - a bunch of work. It is possible, to select all entities together, but I don't know, whether I'm be able to get everything back like before (textures could be affected, enteties, their links...). I had no time until now, to take a closer look or to try that out. We'll see...
The hiccups seem to be affected by the botpathes - I realized, that I lost my botpathes, after clipping the platforms sides, but the hiccups were gone too. THis is no problem so far, I can just reintegrate botpathes very quikley, but the hiccups came back after doing this. I'll work on to reduce these pathes maybe... . The work finds no ending :) .

qreeves {l Wrote}:The most likely reason for the game crashing when attempting to clip the level is using too small a grid size to do so. In most cases it is actually a better idea to enlarge the map and clip the edges using a larger grid size. When the map is actually finished, I will take a better look at it and see what I can do.


Now I know the reason, thank you for that. I like your objective kind, just finding the core of the problem, that helps. Besides that I have to balance my spare time and working on the map. So it can last a while until I can try out to replace the buildings + entities. I will report back, until I know more and had the opportunity to move something. I'll keep working on the maps :).

PS: Interesting to see that much new mapping projects come out at the moment. - - - greetings
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Re: cutec 1.02 map version

Postby Ulukai » 13 Apr 2012, 12:48

Couldn't you just select a bigger grid size for the clips around the map?
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Re: cutec 1.02 map version

Postby raiden » 13 Apr 2012, 18:12

Ulukai {l Wrote}:Couldn't you just select a bigger grid size for the clips around the map?


*Dang* certainly you are absulutely right. Forget what I have said. Please don't ask me why I thought so inconvenient. I had just some worries, because everything of the middle platform is placed exactly in the edges. Why making it easy, when you could have it complicated ? :) The clipbox simply is implemented now, botpathes seem to work, only the hiccups are back (sadly), but I'll find a solution for that.
Maybe I lost the distance :D and maybe another mapper will read our conversation and could find the information about the gridsize usefull, so that my lapse wasn't for nothing :) .

If there won't come other problems, I'll release a next version at the end of the next week (hope so).
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Re: cutec 1.02 map version

Postby Ulukai » 15 Apr 2012, 12:34

I don't know how you have created the waypoints in your map until now, but you can try to create the waypoints in a very controlled manner by walking around the map in a considerate way. Just make sure that you get everywhere where you want the bots to go (weapon pickups, snipe spots, ...) and return on your own steps. Like this, you instruct the bots where they need to go, but with as minimalistic waypoints as possible. When you run around like a fool however to cover each spot of your map, without considering HOW you want your bots to walk, you create easily double as much waypoints.

To see what I mean, take a look at the waypoints of my last map Conflict where I used the same method.
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