Shotgun Concept Mock-up

Shotgun Concept Mock-up

Postby LuckyStrike-Rx » 18 Oct 2011, 01:26

Hello, Here a mock-up for the new Shotgun
Image


For the Pistol comments have improved the concept alot :
Image

Let see how it turn for this Shotgun.
Actual shotgun was the second model I made for Red Eclipse, so it's the 2nd weapon that have to be updated.

I don't draw that well, so you don't need to attack on this :) But if proportions looks odd let me know.

More detailed pic
Image
Last edited by LuckyStrike-Rx on 18 Oct 2011, 02:54, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shotgun Concept Mock-up

Postby fawstoar » 18 Oct 2011, 02:50

Looks perfect... are you planning to model all the weapons? The rifle could definitely use an upgrade :)
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Re: Shotgun Concept Mock-up

Postby ZeroKnight » 18 Oct 2011, 03:55

I want this. So very much. Can I have it? :D Now?
Do want. Very much.
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Re: Shotgun Concept Mock-up

Postby orbitaldecay » 20 Oct 2011, 04:09

Yes. The new pistol is beautiful already, can't wait to see the shotgun.
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Re: Shotgun Concept Mock-up

Postby Wazubaba » 20 Oct 2011, 20:42

That is glorious. I love how true to the original it is.
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Re: Shotgun Concept Mock-up

Postby Julius » 30 Nov 2011, 00:43

Looks awesome so far... lets see the model and there will be some crits :p
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Re: Shotgun Concept Mock-up

Postby LuckyStrike-Rx » 02 Dec 2011, 01:06

I'm uploading the shotgun model in it actual stat, as I don't want to spend more time on this.

-The low poly is done but not optimized (all edge cutting are there for easier sub-surf smoothing) You should be able to get a 1500 tris model if you optimize the triangulation correctly.

-The high poly is half done. I started to use floaters as it's much saner for doing the normal/AO map.

-Unwarp is TODO

-Rigging is TODO

Layer1: Low poly | Layer2: Highpoly | Layer3: HandRig

I don't think nobody will end this (I understand everyone prefer make a model from scratch, with his own idea). But I feel it's less a waist of time if I up that here anyway.

For any question related to modeling I recommend asking on IRC for Fleeky (general modeling tips) and Eihrul (engine related tips and in-game render). They have been really helpful and learned me allot.

So long and thanks for all the fish !
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Re: Shotgun Concept Mock-up

Postby SpiritOfOnyx » 02 Dec 2011, 02:56

=LuckyStrike-Rx I don't think nobody will end this (I understand everyone prefer make a model from scratch, with his own idea). But I feel it's less a waist of time if I up that here anyway

I'm like the omnivore of artists, I'll take anything, dead, dying, unfinished, perfected, and sometimes even make something from scratch lol. The concept for this is AMAZING! I just downloaded after drooling for a couple minutes. Thanks for the tip about floaters too. Idiotically enough, that'd never crossed my mind.
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Re: Shotgun Concept Mock-up

Postby Julius » 02 Dec 2011, 19:23

Too bad you are not finishing it... I will have a look at it, but probably will not have the time to finish it either.

How about I finish the low-poly and the UV map and you finish the rest? :p
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Re: Shotgun Concept Mock-up

Postby Ulukai » 02 Dec 2011, 20:57

I agree that it's too bad it won't get finished. New weapons were the result of the poll you made. There is always a lot of talking about new work / new ideas, but it takes everybody so much time to finish it, if it gets ever finished anyway. You have the experience and everyone is enthousiast about your concept. I hope you might still be ably to finish it with the help that's offered here ;)
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Re: Shotgun Concept Mock-up

Postby Julius » 02 Dec 2011, 21:03

Hmm, I had a look at the file... the low-poly has the problem that is is made up from lots of overlapping small parts (so it is basically only a mesh sketch)... and that is both not very good for the looks of the final mesh (z-fighting at overlapping corners), makes is a strange to UV-map and most importantly really messes up baked normal maps (and to a lesser extend ambient occlusion maps) AFAIK.
Thus it would require almost a complete rebuild of the low-poly mesh (some overlaps can remain though) and besides that it is a pain to import such a separated mesh into Wings3D which is my preferred modeling app :p

So I am not sure what to do... if you turn around and show a very high dedication in finishing the high-poly, I might be motivated to make a (almost) new low-poly for it... but right now I don't see that happening :-/

P.S.: I have a suggestion... since you seem to be great at making cool weapon concepts, why not make a full set of them so that in the long run someone else might find the time to make cool in-game meshes out of them? I for example really prefer to work of good concept art, as I often end up doodling to much while building the meshes which turn out looking quite horrible in the end... while with a cool concept I know it's going to look cool in the end too ;)
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Re: Shotgun Concept Mock-up

Postby LuckyStrike-Rx » 02 Dec 2011, 23:12

Julius {l Wrote}:the low-poly has the problem that is is made up from lots of overlapping small parts

It definitively works well like this. I used this type of low-poly for the pistol and the flamer and it ended way better than when i used the 1 mesh stuff (old shotgun, old pistol, sword...).
1 you save tons on tris not trying to link all vertex
2 Alow better animation of each part
3 Baking works perfectly, the way to do it is different, you have to bake it part by part (or by group of mesh that don't cause trouble).
4 A weapon is made of assembled parts with alot of bevel and cylinders.

Doing it 1 single mesh force you to link all the vertex, which make no sens and is a total waist of tris. It's absolutely logic to make each separated part of the weapon a separated "mesh".

At the end the model is 1 mesh, you just have to join everything (ctrl+J in blender)

If you can see any z-floating and overlapping corner on the new pistol and flamer let me know, because for me it just looks less distort and clumsy than the old pistol and shotgun.

Geartrooper used this kind of modeling for all the new Sauerbraten weapons. I actually started to do it that way, after I looked at how he can get such clean looking weapons.

Also, it's not the first model I make for Cube2 engine, so I start to know what render the best for this kind of object.

At the end, this low poly only need an tris optimization (remove invisible faces, useless vertex, etc...)

You can watch the screen of the cube2 rifle, each separated part is a separated mesh (linked file)

I understand doing a single mesh for a character, organic shapes etc... but for a weapon, it seems to work better with separated part


About doing more concept and such, i don't feel like contributing anymore, sorry
I'll just look at forum sometimes and watch svn log. a few because I'll certainly be too curious to see how it evolve.

Let's just say that a game can't please anyone, and I started to whine/complain a bit too much lately, and it's usually saner (but harder) to leave than become a troll dick.

That's why I recommended eihrul, fleeky, or even geartropper on the sauerbraten chan for any modeling related questions. (I will never thanks them enough for what they learned me generously)

As a general advice, don't be to arrogant while doing stuff (which I kind of did with this post), but try to keep a learning mood (which goes off with motivation, unfortunately). Formation is the best reward you can get for the time you can spend on the project.
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Re: Shotgun Concept Mock-up

Postby Julius » 02 Dec 2011, 23:29

Sorry didn't want to sound arrogant (English isn't my first language), but I stand by my critique.

Some individual parts where it makes really sense doesn't hurt of course (more on that later), but overall it causes a lot of headaches with baking (as you self say), besides that:
It's a common misconception that you have to save faces/tris (besides that nowadays it's mostly pixel fill-rate limitation anyways), instead it is vertexes that actually tax the system most and with every extra cut in the mesh (or even the UV for that matter) you are creating more vertexes to be rendered (except of course in cases where you can save a lot of geometry in general by creating a separate mesh, which are the few cases I referred to previously. Edit: oh and of course when you plan to animate it as a moving part).

In the end you have to balance your effort into the model of course too... making a mesh out of a lot of primitives (or near primitives) is of course a lot quicker (I call it the Google sketch-up methode ;) ) than making a single well thought out mesh. However you lose some of that time-gain again when UV-mapping (a good single mesh will unwrap almost with one click on a modern auto-uv system, while you have to play "puzzle" when working with a lot of sub-meshes).

P.S.: for the high-poly it makes absolute sense of course to use lots of sub-meshes and floaters as that is a lot quicker and looks better too :)

P.P.S.: The z-fighting and overlaps only happens on older GPUs and those with bad drivers, as well as potentially on the weapons the enemies a bit further away are holding (harder to see).

Edit: It's a pity to see a skilled modeler such as yourself leave the RE community (but who am I to speak... I don't even play it, just trolling the freegamedev.net forums in general ;) ), but you are right... doing something in your free time requires the right set of mind and motivation. But I am looking forward to see you maybe contribute to some other FOSS games!

Oh and a last bit of trolling :D Geartrooper is a great modeler with an amazing track-record of actually doing things and releasing them (as exactly opposed to me :p)... but mesh quality really never was his strength. he does "things" and they work and look ok in-game... but for learning look somewhere else :p
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Re: Shotgun Concept Mock-up

Postby LuckyStrike-Rx » 03 Dec 2011, 00:15

Well, most low poly weapon I can find are made that way (actually all, except the one in RE).
But however you are right for the fact that the actual shotgun low poly is a bit to much new object friendly (specially for the small parts that links the big ones).

I usually create a general low poly that will allow to build a high poly version easily, and keep it for the later low poly modeling.
That's why I said it's not optimized, but it's 1 hours of work max to join what need to be joined, and triangulate everything, but you need to do this in blender, indeed.

edit: Off course, it seems logical to take inspiration from finished models that works and looks good in the same engine.

edit2:
Sorry didn't want to sound arrogant (English isn't my first language), but I stand by my critique.

I'm Totally not talking about you, np. I was the one in that case for this one. That's why I better stop now
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Re: Shotgun Concept Mock-up

Postby Snipe » 29 Jun 2012, 00:14

Image some suggestions
Some ideas for the hud animations. Along with the ammo counter near the trigger I was thinking about alternate fire modes.
1: secondary fire u hold your alt-fire button and the pump locks backwards then on release of the button the pump slings to its forward position to fire the shot.
My other idea would probably need its own page though :think:
btw do you have any pictures showing other angles of the shotgun, or video demo, or not yet?
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Re: Shotgun Concept Mock-up

Postby qubodup » 29 Jun 2012, 00:57

Snipe {l Wrote}:Is this image too small?

Yes, it is too small.
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