Cops vs robbers?

Cops vs robbers?

Postby Lyberta » 12 Apr 2016, 07:47

Well on the FPS scene we have lots of Quake clones and other games from the 90s, I'm thinking of doing something more modern.

I was a huge GTA fan and for years enjoyed mass killing of cops and more recently found an FPS which has a similar setting: PayDay: The Heist. I'm thinking of making a free software clone of this game but with Left 4 Dead-like versus mode.

My plan is to take Red Eclipse code and AssaultCube assets as a starting point.

Thoughts?
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Julius » 12 Apr 2016, 13:23

Cube2 is quite bad at rendering larger outdoor areas, so I guess that would not be the best choice? I guess you want it because of the easy, integrated level editor?

My only partially educated suggestion is that Torque3D ( www.torque3d.org MIT licensed) is probably the best FOSS engine right now to do such a game (and it also includes a nice in engine level editor for great outdoor environments). There are also plenty of compatible Free assets can can be easily utilized.
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby onpon4 » 12 Apr 2016, 14:17

My first thought is that the AssaultCube assets are not a good starting point. Most of them are proprietary.
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby rogerdv » 12 Apr 2016, 17:21

Julius {l Wrote}:Cube2 is quite bad at rendering larger outdoor areas, so I guess that would not be the best choice? I guess you want it because of the easy, integrated level editor?

My only partially educated suggestion is that Torque3D ( http://www.torque3d.org MIT licensed) is probably the best FOSS engine right now to do such a game (and it also includes a nice in engine level editor for great outdoor environments). There are also plenty of compatible Free assets can can be easily utilized.


Not sure if I would recommend Torque. The site is abandoned and the engine itself is a mess to learn. There are better choices, like Urho3D if you can deal with its weird scene editor and Godot, if you can take the time to wait for their new GL ES 3 based renderer. The recently openend Atomic Game Engine is worth a try, but cant give an opinion about it because I have been too busy with Unity3D, no time for other engines.
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Lyberta » 13 Apr 2016, 03:32

I don't feel like spending years of learning yet another engine. I've already finished several RE maps and have a good conceptual understanding how the engine works.

Anyway, good software design is not to have many dependencies and abstract everything. So I will make sure my game is easily portable to other engines.

I've looked a bit into AC assets and I thought most are free cultural works. Maybe I will have to recheck again.
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Julius » 13 Apr 2016, 11:31

The new Torque3D.org website is not abandoned, and I would guess the benefits of using Torque3D for such a game outweigh its definitely existing disadvantages. The main point though is that Torque 3D doesn't just have an external scene editor, but an actual very nicely working & build-in level editor perfectly suitable for exactly the type of game this thread is about.

Cube2 is a very specific engine that will not port across to other engines well as far as I know, and as I said before also not really well suited for these kind of games. But if you insists, why not starting with the newer Tesseract or Octaforge forks that offer much nicer functionality than vanilla Cube2?
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Lyberta » 13 Apr 2016, 13:26

Because RE has a complete game with tons of assets. Otherwise, I will have to code a lot from scratch.

EDIT: Ok, what are the advantages of Torque3d? I will look into it's games.

EDIT2: OK I only found Terminal Overload and it looks half-dead...
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Duion » 13 Apr 2016, 22:41

You could build it inside Uebergame: http://store.steampowered.com/app/391780/
I currently finished a modular game mode framework, which allows to run multiple game modes out of one game.
For your type of game you would only need playermodels, weapons and animations, then you need to write a gametype script where the goals are defined and you are done, you can as well use the existing playermodels and weapons, but they may not fit your purpose very good yet.
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Julius » 14 Apr 2016, 13:42

Torque3D also has some pretty complete FOSS environment model/texture packs available (quality wise approximately Farcry2 level I guess, so much better than most free Cube2 assets), and also an example FPS with a somewhat usable player model template with weapons etc. But the latter will need replacement sooner or later as Duion wrote.

Building on Übergame is probably not a bad idea either but (don't kill me for that comment Duion :p) it isn't all that much more advanced code wise than the vanilla Torque3D FPS template in regards to your idea.
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Duion » 14 Apr 2016, 14:22

Have you actually looked at the code?
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Lyberta » 14 Apr 2016, 14:44

Here's what I get when I try to run Uebergame:
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
Initializing platform...
Input Init:
%
% ATTENTION: default value of option vblank_mode overridden by environment.
Failed to load OpenAL shared library. Sound will not be available
SFXALProvider - OpenAL not available.
DebugDrawer Enabled!
GFX Init:
   Null device found
%
--------- Loading DIRS ---------
%
--------- Parsing Arguments ---------
Binding server port to default IP
UDP initialized on port 0
The requested renderer, D3D9, doesn't seem to be available. Trying the default, OpenGL.
The OpenGL renderer doesn't seem to be available. Trying the GFXNulDevice.
Attempting to create GFX device: GFX Null Device []
Initializing GFXCardProfiler (GFX Null Device Renderer)
   o Chipset : 'NULL Device'
   o Card    : 'GFX Null Device Card'
   o Version : '0'
   o VRAM    : 0 MB
   - Scanning card capabilities...
   - Loading card profiles...
      - No card profile core/profile/GFXNullDeviceRenderer.cs exists
      - No card profile core/profile/GFXNullDeviceRenderer.NULLDevice.cs exists
      - No card profile core/profile/GFXNullDeviceRenderer.NULLDevice.GFXNullDeviceCard.cs exists
      - No card profile core/profile/GFXNullDeviceRenderer.NULLDevice.GFXNullDeviceCard.0.cs exists
Device created, setting adapter and enumerating modes
% Segmentation fault
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Akien » 14 Apr 2016, 15:18

FaTony {l Wrote}:[...]
Failed to load OpenAL shared library. Sound will not be available
SFXALProvider - OpenAL not available.
[...]
The OpenGL renderer doesn't seem to be available. Trying the GFXNulDevice.

Looks like you might be trying to run a 32-bit binary on 64-bit Linux, and you don't have the 32-bit libraries (openal, GL) it's trying to open on the fly.
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Lyberta » 14 Apr 2016, 16:08

Well I think I've seen enough to conclude that Torque3D is not a good candidate.
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Akien » 14 Apr 2016, 16:16

FaTony {l Wrote}:Well I think I've seen enough to conclude that Torque3D is not a good candidate.

Well if you disqualify an engine based on having been provided with a binary for the wrong architecture, you have some way to go before your project actually becomes something tangible... But good luck! :)
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Duion » 14 Apr 2016, 17:23

I discontinued support for 32-bit Linux and the game does not work with mesa drivers, you need the official ones from AMD or NVIDIA, which you most likely will need anyway, if you are a gamer.
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby onpon4 » 14 Apr 2016, 17:42

Duion {l Wrote}:I discontinued support for 32-bit Linux and the game does not work with mesa drivers, you need the official ones from AMD or NVIDIA, which you most likely will need anyway, if you are a gamer.

So, Ubergame only works on systems running specific proprietary drivers for specific hardware? I think you might want to rethink that design decision if that's true. It's not the 1990s anymore.
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Duion » 14 Apr 2016, 17:51

If you want up to date graphics, you need to use up to date graphics cards, which need up to date graphics drivers and it is not my job to supply that.
The alternative is using outdated derivatives of 20 year old game engines that produce games that nobody cares about quality wise.
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Lyberta » 14 Apr 2016, 20:35

Duion {l Wrote}:If you want up to date graphics, you need to use up to date graphics cards, which need up to date graphics drivers and it is not my job to supply that.


Tesseract works on Mesa. :P So yeah, I'm NOT installing proprietary software on my machine.
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Duion » 14 Apr 2016, 20:41

You can help porting it to Linux and open drivers, if that is so important for you.
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Lyberta » 14 Apr 2016, 21:15

I have almost zero experience with graphics and I'm not interested in developing games I can't play.
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Duion » 14 Apr 2016, 21:16

Well you will not be able to develop them in the first place then.
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Lyberta » 14 Apr 2016, 21:19

There is a difference between starting from scratch and starting from completely playable game.
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Duion » 14 Apr 2016, 21:49

I started my completely playable game from scratch as well, it does not magically fall from the sky.
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby Lyberta » 14 Apr 2016, 22:03

Good for you, too bad it's not playable for me.
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Re: Cops vs robbers?

Postby onpon4 » 14 Apr 2016, 22:55

Duion {l Wrote}:If you want up to date graphics, you need to use up to date graphics cards, which need up to date graphics drivers and it is not my job to supply that.
The alternative is using outdated derivatives of 20 year old game engines that produce games that nobody cares about quality wise.

No, the alternative is using standard calls that people spent years developing. There's long been a battle between Direct3D and OpenGL (OpenGL is better because Direct3D doesn't work on Linux systems), but if you're actually bypassing both of these and writing code that only works on certain GPUs, you're definitely doing it wrong.

To be honest, I have my doubts that this is the case. I suspect you are actually being fast and loose with the claim that Ubergame "does not work with mesa drivers", especially because the statement doesn't really make any sense (Mesa isn't a driver, it's an implementation of OpenGL that directs to the appropriate driver if possible or a software implementation otherwise), and it looks to me browsing the Torque3D source tree like it just uses OpenGL or Direct3D, like any other 3-D engine does.
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