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LinCity 2000?

PostPosted: 14 Dec 2015, 03:26
by nicfer

I'm a big fan of Sim City 2000, and the saga has gone too gimmicky from the games posterior to 4, I didn't start to like 3000 onwards, but they have some good ideas that 2k could have liked. But instead of remaking SC2000, why not to remake an existing FOSS alternative? OpenCity looks dead, similar fate suffered lesser projects, and I'm more of a isometric/at least topdown graphics. That means LinCity is the most similar project I found (Lincity-NG is 3D, but since the main game was topdown, it counts). Althrough I like it, I find it rather lackluster.

My idea is to create a clone of LinCity, written in Pygame, which is the library I'm most used to on a language I like, and add some new design (+) and keeping the good stuff (*):

* The importance of education. Giving it a bigger role than just making your people happy makes it look less gimmicky, similar to other services. Getting new things just by waiting is boring.
* The plain map is good, as something I hate about SimCity is that hilly terrains are an obstacle to the city design. Maybe I'll add an height attribute, but it won't do anything to roads other than preventing them to merge if two of them are together at different height.
+ Zoning system: The actual solid-style residences is too stiff, as the first SimCity Micropolis shows. Composed of:
- Residential, which density depends on how much built space and transport efficiency.
- Commercial, which is much more expensive and less needed in quantity (so a single tile can work as a little shop, in a scale of 1 per ~20 residential tiles.
- Extraction, which includes farms, forests, quarries and mines. The first three require large areas, and the latter just the entrance to the shafts.
- Industry, which requires at least a 2x2 area to build the operative buildings and additional 1x1 warehouses to store items awaiting to be carried to other industries/shops.
- Dumping, where trash is disposed on the dirtiest way.
- (Air/Sea)port, the former serving for tourism, migrants and business, the latter for cargo exchange.
- Parks
+ Revamping the transport system. Nowadays it's a bit confusing and inconsistent, at least as I understand it. In the late game, designing a Metro/Subway system will be crucial for citizens to move around the city.
+ Electric power, as in LinCity its optional but very useful, although it'll be more versatile, with three levels of power, plus a "low voltage" that's run on the streets:
- Middle voltage, which can be run alongside roads, and powers the low voltage network.
- High voltage, which needs free space, but can be run from anywhere in the city.
- Very high voltage, which is only used for the national network, and you can only use it to connect your power plant/substation to the country.

That's everything I have for now, I'll add when I shape my project better.


Re: LinCity 2000?

PostPosted: 12 Jan 2016, 16:34
by samuncle
Hi interesting concept :).

Do you still plan to do it ? I might have some advice for you


Re: LinCity 2000?

PostPosted: 13 Jan 2016, 17:56
by jcantero
nicfer {l Wrote}:OpenCity looks dead, similar fate suffered lesser projects, and I'm more of a isometric/at least topdown graphics. That means LinCity is the most similar project I found (Lincity-NG is 3D, but since the main game was topdown, it counts).

Actually, Lincity-NG is 2.5D, not 3D. See the isometric building tiles here: Example:

Lincity-NG in its current state is mainly a reimplementation of the user interface in SDL (Lincity UI, on the other hand, is based on xlib or svga). The simulation engine of Lincity-NG, however, is almost the same that the one used in the original Lincity. You can compare Lincity-NG's src/lincity/modules/ with Lincity's modules/ directory and see that it's almost the same code. So you can use any of them to study the current rules and formulas that govern the simulation.

(As an side note, I know all of this because long time ago I was trying to do the same thing, and I even refactorized some of that old C code trying to understand it better. Maybe I should give a second try)

Re: LinCity 2000?

PostPosted: 14 Jan 2016, 16:26
by samuncle
If I can recommend you something is to use an existing game engine like Godot, so you can focus on the gameplay/visual/details instead of building yet another game engine which will be never finished :).

Re: LinCity 2000?

PostPosted: 14 Jan 2016, 16:40
by leilei
Remember: it's not "2000" if it doesn't have a water pipeline management system.

Also here's some nice advice: ignore engine suggestions and stick to what you know, what you're comfortable with and what you're willing to learn more of. More than half of replies in this forum are pretty much the unhelpful "You should use x"

Re: LinCity 2000?

PostPosted: 14 Jan 2016, 17:03
by samuncle
Well it's sad but so common in Open source project.

Yes you have to learn a new tool but honestly there is a reason if even AAA game studios tend to avoid creating their own engine. Now of course you can ignore my advice but from my experience you should give it a try.

There is a lot of indie studio doing games with unity so why not doing the same (especially considering there are tools like godot). I never really understood why so many open source project try to make their own stuff from scratch but of course you are free to do whatever you want ;).

I'm interested in simulation and willing to help especially in art but again I don't know your objectives nor your ideas

Re: LinCity 2000?

PostPosted: 14 Jan 2016, 17:11
by Akien
leilei {l Wrote}:Also here's some nice advice: ignore engine suggestions and stick to what you know, what you're comfortable with and what you're willing to learn more of. More than half of replies in this forum are pretty much the unhelpful "You should use x"

Well, as you know better than everyone, just use what you want and don't ask for feedback from fellow developers of open source games. This forum is *designed* for such feedback and advice. We don't give empty advice, samuncle and I are both using Godot and know it quite well.

Also nicfer said nothing about some tech she/he (I'll assume "he" for the rest or it's going to be painful to write/read) would have chosen already, or if he is well-versed in C and OpenGL or HTML5 and WebGL or TurboPascal; as he has only two posts on this forum and described a relatively broad "let's make a new FLOSS implementation of game X", it's not inappropriate to give some good tips about choices that can possibly make his life easier.

Now, this "more than half" of _your_ replies in this forum seem to be to criticize its users, why don't you search for a forum that suits your needs better? It must be tiring for you to have so many useless answers to read.

Re: LinCity 2000?

PostPosted: 15 Jan 2016, 01:38
by c_xong
I've made games using many different languages and frameworks/engines, and I would advise against python/pygame. Packaging and performance are both terrible. Pygame's last stable release was in 2009; it still uses SDL 1.2 as its backend.

Instead, I'd recommend Love2D as it has a very similar API, packaging is trivial and performance is great. One major downside is that coming from a language like python, Lua is going to be very weird. Godot sounds like a good choice too because GDScript is similar to python, but I haven't used godot yet.

It's a shame because python's such a great language, and pygame is still the best option for it. Better languages for gamedev include Java (e.g. libGDX), C++ (e.g. SFML), Javascript, Haxe but if python is perfect for you, all of these options would require a compromise of some kind.

If your mind is set on python, you could also try SGE, by the resident onpon4. It would save you time compared to vanilla pygame.

Re: LinCity 2000?

PostPosted: 17 Jan 2016, 00:37
by samuncle
I never used Love2D but one of the issue would be the absence of 3D and or editor. Godot scripting is very similar to python so if you want to do something "python like" it might be a very good choice. There is also a powerful editor and the engine is maintained and updated regularly.

I tried LinCity-ng today and I was a bit disappointed and confused. Figuring out what's needed/what to do etc was hard and a lot of numbers where just changing constantly and I had no idea what they represented :(. Also it's sometime difficult to tell if you have done something there us no much feedback (like traffic driving, etc) animated buildings.

Since I suggested godot, I also suggest to do a 3D game with a 2D logic. Which means the general logic will be just like lincity or lincity-ng but the buildings will be in 3D. Now it might seems complex at first to do a 3D game but from my experince it will make animations way easier. For instance if you want the bucket of the excavator to be able to turn, in 2.5d you have to do like ~20 images and they must be perfectly synchronized and then if you want to add a coal truck you have to redo everything. Will in 3D it's basically just enable rotation :P.

I also suggest to do a "brand". LinCity is obviously a pun name on SimCity. Why not creating a game with the same mechanic, the same gameplay but on a different setting.

Let's be creative
-Managing an igloo city with tux as the mayor :P
-Managing a waterpark with several attractions/water treatments
-Managing an alien planet

Even if it seems unrelated to cities the mechanic is pretty much the same (replace roads by walkway, houses by attractions and taxes by ticket fee and you get pretty much the same thing).
I could do some very basic buildings if someone can help me with programming, but my main condition is we must use an existing game engine.


Re: LinCity 2000?

PostPosted: 17 Jan 2016, 23:50
by nicfer
I'm now testing Godot, and I'm thinking on what's the correct node for the map, while I practice with a simple pong game. Looks more simple to not have to do everything with text, only the interactions.

I have a wide knowledge of programming, I'm an university student in IT, finished first year and waiting for starting my second.

I'll see if I can rebrand my project without altering my intended gameplay. Not that I planned to do a 1:1 copy of SC2000 or LinCity, I just used the title for an analogy that doesn't represent the final name.

This is only my third post, but I was lurking the forum for a long time, maybe I had another account and didn't remember the password, I have to check better.

EDIT: I had the nickname "UnderGamer" a long time ago, but was lost with a forum reset.

Re: LinCity 2000?

PostPosted: 18 Jan 2016, 00:36
by samuncle
@nicfer Cool ! :)

Godot is a nice choice, I can help you especially in the 3D part. I think you should go 3D but keeping a 2D logic (to avoid complex algorithm). The grid system to draw is kinda "easy" to program.
Also 3D will be easier for animations, it's not needed to draw hundred of frames just to rotate something.
Art can be very minimalist so it's "not too much work". ... 8aa4eb.jpg

About the branding, yeah it's not the final name nor the final idea. As I said the gameplay mechanic can be the same for an amusement park or an alien factory, the idea with the "branding" was more to avoid to do "yet another clone of a proprietary game" but going for something more original.

For instance if you do a water park you could:
1) build a water system with sewage/pumping station (because attraction need water)
2) have a purification unit to treat the water
3) being able to build different attraction to "attract people"
4) being able to "zone" parts of the park to try to attract sponsors so they build their food booth etc
5) maybe it would be fun if you aren't able to put restaurants etc but you need to do a good enough park so sponsors comes
6) you have do design good walkway otherwise it might become crowded and people complain
7) you must be careful with water pollution otherwise people become sick and they could launch protests and maybe suing you :P
8) you have to manage loans and you can borrow money
9) building a subway/skytrain to move efficiently people in your park
10) linking your park to an airport to have even a higher guest number
11) etc

But it could also be an alien planet

1) you can build machine so aliens come to work
2) you must be careful with radiations because they might cause troubles
3) you can develop a space program to attract investor
4) you can build a dyson sphere to harvest stellar energy
5) etc

It really depends on what you planned. But you can think of a lot of management games without necessarily being a 1:1 sim city clone.
IMHO the water park might be a very fun thing to do :P, but the alien planet is cool too.

Re: LinCity 2000?

PostPosted: 28 Aug 2016, 22:36
by DGMurdockIII
there is also Micropolis the open source verson open source version of SimCity Classic from Maxis

also ... h-sfml/137

also this one that is open source and on steam