Porting Me and My Shadow to iOS

Porting Me and My Shadow to iOS

Postby Edward_Lii » 31 Jul 2012, 17:44

Hello all,

A few days ago I got a mail from Knitter asking if he could make a port of Me and My Shadow for iOS.
I've got permission to copy paste his mail so here it is:

    Hi,

    I've been toying with the idea of porting the game to a mobile platform, I
    already made some prototypes that I used to learn a bit about Android
    development and some game development frameworks but they were just small
    projects I used to learn, and having a familiar theme helped. I've attended
    a fast paced iOS game development workshop/summer school this last week and
    the idea came back so I would like to know what are you're thoughts on
    having a port for iOS, or if not a straight port, a game based on Me & My
    Shadow.

    I would, naturally, abide by the existing licenses and provide all the
    credits, I don't want to create a clone to ride on Me & My Shadow's name.
    So the game would be open source, the code would be on a public
    server/hosting and I would try to coordinate as much as possible with the
    PC version. Still, since iOS development is a bit expensive (Apple Store
    fees, iOS devices for testing, etc) I was thinking of providing both a free
    (as in gratis) version and another version at around the usual 79 cents,
    maybe 1 dollar, that users could buy if they wanted to support development.
    I don't know what are the expenses Me & My Shadow currently has but I would
    be more than happy to send all the profits to either Me & My Shadow or
    other open source projects.

    What I'm trying to find is if you would be OK with me doing this and even
    offering a paid version of the game on Apple Store. My goals are to offer
    the game to another target audience and another platform, to increase my
    portfolio (naturally I'm not taking credit for the game but for the port),
    and to see if I could use an open source game to finance other open source
    projects (one project I would like to give some money to is WTactics so
    that they can have more art that will then be returned to the open source
    community through OGA).

    I'm assuming there will be some sales (though I don't really know if there
    will be any or if it will be enough to cover at least the developer fee),
    but it may be that only the free version is downloaded.

    Regards,

    Sérgio Lopes, aka Knitter
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Re: Porting Me and My Shadow to iOS

Postby Knitter » 31 Jul 2012, 20:53

We exchanged a few more messages but I would add the following except since it pertains to why I chose not to have donations.

Both versions [nb: free and paid versions] would be exactly the same. I have chosen this approach over a donation system due to legal reasons. I have no way to legally accept donations from Paypal or other system in Portugal, at least not without tax fraud. Also I don't trust Paypal :)

The idea is simple: the game is free software, you can play if from the Apple Store or compile it yourself if you have an Apple developer's ID and install it in your device. If you want to donate then just buy the app, the exact same app, with the exact same features. The paid version is the method used for donation.

If I choose the donation method I'll have some trouble with the money transfer, also I'll be forced to declared that as income but I have no way to legally declare it since I can't receive donations. "Selling" the app takes care of that since Apple pays the VAT in my country, I get 70% of what's left, I can declare those 70% since it fall into the royalties area, that I'm able to receive. Naturally I'll have to pay taxes for the income at the end of the year but that is something I already do .

One other thing for the paid option instead of donation is that if your are using Apple Store you already have a credit card in your account, you don't need to create a PayPal account, leave the Apple Store and go to your browser and login into another system. It lowers the difficulty bar and increases the convenience for the user that is "donating".


This is an idea I've been juggling for some time, not only with M&M Shadow, and it may or may not come to a fruitful end. Still, I would like to see the community's thoughts on this.
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Re: Porting Me and My Shadow to iOS

Postby Edward_Lii » 31 Jul 2012, 21:05

Hello Knitter,

I talked about it on the IRC channel and I'm afraid there's a slight problem pointed out by odamite.
The Terms of Service of the Apple App Store are incompatible with the GPL license, so that will rule out the possibility to use the code for the port.
Not sure how to continue, one solution would be to dual license the game under the GPL and an open license that is compatible with the terms. :|
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Re: Porting Me and My Shadow to iOS

Postby Knitter » 31 Jul 2012, 22:20

I understand that issue, I'm also looking at a way to solve it. But keep in mind that the GNU GPL license applies to the existing source code for the game and, given that I won't use M&M Shadow's code it's license will not apply my project. Dual license is something I would try to avoid, at least for now.
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Re: Porting Me and My Shadow to iOS

Postby acme_pjz » 01 Aug 2012, 07:19

Personally I don't like everything from Apple :think: IMHO Android port is better, since Android SDK and NDK are free...

The Terms of Service of the Apple App Store are incompatible with the GPL license, so that will rule out the possibility to use the code for the port.


I don't know, but there are several GPL game with iOS port, for example Battle for Wesnoth, Frogatto and Friends, etc. Are they all dual-licensed?
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Re: Porting Me and My Shadow to iOS

Postby odamite » 01 Aug 2012, 08:40

Hello,

Knitter {l Wrote}:I understand that issue, I'm also looking at a way to solve it. But keep in mind that the GNU GPL license applies to the existing source code for the game and, given that I won't use M&M Shadow's code it's license will not apply my project. Dual license is something I would try to avoid, at least for now.

So are you going to rewrite the game? Are you using any of our code? Also what library are you going to use? SDL2.0, cocos2d or something else?

acme_pjz {l Wrote}:Personally I don't like everything from Apple :think: IMHO Android port is better, since Android SDK and NDK are free...

We or somebody else could port meandmyshadow to SDL2.0 which officially supports both Android and iOS. Also there aren't any license problems with Google Play Store and GPL but publishing there isn't free...

acme_pjz {l Wrote}:I don't know, but there are several GPL game with iOS port, for example Battle for Wesnoth, Frogatto and Friends, etc. Are they all dual-licensed?

Yes, they're dual-licensed. All it needs is permission from all copyright holders. Doing this is easy if one is the original developer.
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Re: Porting Me and My Shadow to iOS

Postby Knitter » 01 Aug 2012, 10:05

I understand the reluctance towards Apple Store, given all the limitations it has, it was also one of the reasons I wanted to ask for opinions.

odamite {l Wrote}:So are you going to rewrite the game? Are you using any of our code? Also what library are you going to use? SDL2.0, cocos2d or something else?

Cocos2D will most likely be the library I'll use and I do not intend to use M&M Shadow code. I don't even know if I can really provide every feature exactly the same, I hope so, but at the moment it is one more question I cannot answer.

odamite {l Wrote}:
acme_pjz {l Wrote}:Personally I don't like everything from Apple :think: IMHO Android port is better, since Android SDK and NDK are free...

We or somebody else could port meandmyshadow to SDL2.0 which officially supports both Android and iOS. Also there aren't any license problems with Google Play Store and GPL but publishing there isn't free...

It's cheaper than Apple Store but also needs a developer ID to publish new applications. Still you can publish on any of the other android stores but Google Play is the only one that you know every android user will probably have.

acme_pjz {l Wrote}:I don't know, but there are several GPL game with iOS port, for example Battle for Wesnoth, Frogatto and Friends, etc. Are they all dual-licensed?

I'm one of those that thinks that this is a bit of a gray area. Yes, the TOS prevents you from redistributing the binary that you downloaded from the store but they don't prevent you to download the code and compile it for yourself and use it anyway you like, change it, offer it to your friends or sell it back. You will need a developer's ID but I don't see that as paying for the code but paying for the service of accessing Apple Store (and many other services offered by Apple with the developer ID). Also, you can have iOS devices that have been jailbroken ( and at least around here that is legal ) and can easily use your binary or code.

I don't know if Wesnoth is dual licensed at the moment, it probably is, but it was placed on Apple Store under GNU GPL and was developed for the store under the spirit of the GNU GPL.

At the moment I have no intentions to work with Android, yes I know it is a free system with free tools and I have an Android based smartphone, but it is not a platform I, as a developer, want to work for given my current condition and the way the android market works. Creating a clone/port of M&M Shadow would allow me to gain more understanding of iOS development, see if the business model I thought would provide any return (and if so I could finance some projects, specifically I would like to finance WTactics with some new card assets) and would help show a fantastic game to a type of user that doesn't probably know the game exists :)
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Re: Porting Me and My Shadow to iOS

Postby acme_pjz » 01 Aug 2012, 13:10

Knitter {l Wrote}:Still you can publish on any of the other android stores but Google Play is the only one that you know every android user will probably have.


If it's me, then I will only publish it on project homepage (SourceForge and/or Google Code) and declare other publishes unofficial :lol:

Knitter {l Wrote}:specifically I would like to finance WTactics with some new card assets


Maybe you should make iOS version of WTactics (does it exist now?) :)
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Re: Porting Me and My Shadow to iOS

Postby acme_pjz » 07 Oct 2012, 08:11

Hi everyone,

I'll get my first Android device soon :) So I'll check the possibility to port Me and My Shadow to Android :)
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