About the music

[odamite]

I really love the music of Me & My Shadow. So I started to wonder who made it. It seems that the music has been there from initial release but I couldn't find any mention of the author. But then I found the answer from metadata of midi version. It is song called Eruyt Village by Hitoshi Sakimoto from Final Fantasy games. Here's a link to YouTube. It seems that the song also quite popular.

This is a problem. I think that we don't have a license to use this music and redistribute it for free. So the music should be removed. But naturally this leads to an another problem. Game without music can be quite boring.

Luckily I think I have found a solution: this post is just couple of days old. I think he's quite good and right for our purpose. What do you think?

[Edward_Lii]

Hello odamite,

I really love the music of Me & My Shadow. So I started to wonder who made it. It seems that the music has been there from initial release but I couldn't find any mention of the author. But then I found the answer from metadata of midi version. It is song called Eruyt Village by Hitoshi Sakimoto from Final Fantasy games. Here's a link to YouTube. It seems that the song also quite popular.

This is a problem. I think that we don't have a license to use this music and redistribute it for free. So the music should be removed. But naturally this leads to an another problem. Game without music can be quite boring.

I never knew the music was from Final Fantasy.
I always thought that it was either made by Luka Horvat or some public domain/create commons music.

This has to change ASAP, thanks for discovering.

Luckily I think I have found a solution: this post is just couple of days old. I think he's quite good and right for our purpose. What do you think?

I think that's a great idea, we should ask him.

[Edward_Lii]

Hello all,

I've removed the background music in the latest svn revision (235).
We really need to find a good free replacement, perhaps there's a good one on OGA?

I think that's a great idea, we should ask him.

It seems he didn't see the post/visited the forums and I can't find another way of contacting him.
Anyway priority one is to get a free replacement that fits the game.

I've created a ticket for this issue:
https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/meandmyshadow/ticket/43

[ctdabomb]

I know asciimonster makes music, he might be willing to help?
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=56

[odamite]

Hello Edward Lii,

Maybe we could find music also on Jamendo. If you didn't know it's a site dedicated on Creative Commons music. There's a huge collection of music but it seems that most of it is licensed under CC by-nc-sa which might not be as 'free' as it could be. Searching by tags is possible and I would suggest something like "ambient" and/or "classical". In a quick search I found this album which sounds pretty good. I think there's much more great music so more searching should be done.

[Edward_Lii]

Hello odamite,

Maybe we could find music also on Jamendo. If you didn't know it's a site dedicated on Creative Commons music. There's a huge collection of music but it seems that most of it is licensed under CC by-nc-sa which might not be as 'free' as it could be. Searching by tags is possible and I would suggest something like "ambient" and/or "classical". In a quick search I found this album which sounds pretty good. I think there's much more great music so more searching should be done.

Thanks for the link.
I think it's best if we try to find some possible music tracks and then vote/decide which one is best (for the game).

I know asciimonster makes music, he might be willing to help?
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=56

Thanks for the suggestion, but at the moment I think it's best to try and find a finished music piece.
If, for whatever reason, we can't find a free and suitable track then we'll have to look for someone to compose the music.

[MCMic]

You can look at the artists "Tryad" ( http://www.jamendo.com/en/artist/tryad ) or "Ehma" ( http://www.dogmazic.net/Ehma )
(Look the license of the songs, they might not be all free)

There are also some albums made especially for games :
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2264 for instance :-P

[odamite]

Hello everyone!

I was just wondering what kind of music we want? I suggest something calm and soothing ambient music. I think that some upbeat electronic music wouldn't fit in so well. Also I was thinking about getting more than one song because if you play the game much then the music might become dull and annoying.

Anyway if we want similar music to original one, this is something I found.

Any thoughts?

[Edward_Lii]

Hello all,

I was just wondering what kind of music we want? I suggest something calm and soothing ambient music. I think that some upbeat electronic music wouldn't fit in so well.

I think we should indeed go for a calm and ambient style.
IMHO that fits the monochrome art style of the game best.

Also I was thinking about getting more than one song because if you play the game much then the music might become dull and annoying.

Great idea, somehow it didn't cross my mind.
How should this be implemented, I was thinking of something like this:

- Main menu has a constant background music. (Which isn't used in-game)
- When a level starts a track will be randomly picked from a list (preventing playing the same one multiple times)
- Perhaps let the player select a 'music list' in the options menu (if for example someone absolutely hates calm music he can change to a more energetic list).

You can look at the artists "Tryad" ( http://www.jamendo.com/en/artist/tryad ) or "Ehma" ( http://www.dogmazic.net/Ehma )
(Look the license of the songs, they might not be all free)

There are also some albums made especially for games :
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2264 for instance :-P

Good suggestion, I think most of them are a bit too energetic/active.
But perhaps we can include some of them in the game?

Anyway if we want similar music to original one, this is something I found.

I listened a bit and they seem like a very good replacement.

We need to make a selection of tracks that fit the game.

[odamite]

Hello! I would like to see more people to take part of this conversation and give their opinion on the subject. Here's some of my thoughts:

How should this be implemented, I was thinking of something like this:
[list] - Main menu has a constant background music. (Which isn't used in-game)
- When a level starts a track will be randomly picked from a list (preventing playing the same one multiple times)

Great idea! Also I think that there should be fading between menu and in-game music. I think that SDL_mixer should be able to do it.

You can look at the artists "Tryad" ( http://www.jamendo.com/en/artist/tryad ) or "Ehma" ( http://www.dogmazic.net/Ehma )
(Look the license of the songs, they might not be all free)

There are also some albums made especially for games :
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2264 for instance :-P

Good suggestion, I think most of them are a bit too energetic/active.
But perhaps we can include some of them in the game?

I think that some songs from Tryad's album Instrumentals are pretty good. I think that the music theme support should be added. Maybe something like my suggestion and Tryad could be the default themes?

I listened a bit and they seem like a very good replacement.

We need to make a selection of tracks that fit the game.

They're actual new versions of old English and Irish folk songs excluding the last song. However there isn't any copyright problems. I believe that folk songs are public domain. Anyway I really like this album because its sound and tone.

[Edward_Lii]

Hello all,

I would like to see more people to take part of this conversation and give their opinion on the subject.

I totally agree, the more opinions the better.
It's very hard to decide which music fits and which doesn't.

Great idea! Also I think that there should be fading between menu and in-game music. I think that SDL_mixer should be able to do it.

I don't think this will be so hard to implement using SDL_mixer.
This is how the music system should work:

* Some sort of .music file containing information about a single music file. (Author, license, start, loop-start, loop-end, volume)
* Fade the music in and out when changing/starting music.
* Show the track name+author when a new music piece is started.
* Music list files pointing to several .music files.
* Randomly select a track (but not picking the same one twice or too often)

They're actual new versions of old English and Irish folk songs excluding the last song. However there isn't any copyright problems. I believe that folk songs are public domain. Anyway I really like this album because its sound and tone.

You shouldn't have said that, now they sound like old folk songs (especially the first one).
One thing I did notice when listening to those (and Tryad's ones) is that they are more songs than (game) background music.

Anyway, I tried to determine to rate the tracks by if they fit the game or not.
If one is marked red it doesn't mean it's bad, just that I think it doesn't fit the game.

Tradincelt
▓  1. Amazing grâceb (a bit too much like a folk song)
▓  2. Molly macalpin
▓  3. Tha aran boat 2
▓  4. Bleuved nédéleg
▓  5. Canonj pachelbel
▓  6. Brian boru 2
▓  7. Rèverie
▓  8. Toutouig
▓  9. Irl2008
▓  10. Sous la pluie

Tryad
▓  1. The final rewind
▓  2. Our lives change
▓  3. Seduction
▓  4. Witness
▓  5. Star guide
▓  6. Arcadia (a bit too low/deep)
▓  7. The rising
▓  8. Struttin
▓  9. Breathe
▓  10. Alone
▓  11. Listen
▓  12. Lovely (sounds more space game like)
▓  13. Empty (up-beat)
▓  14. All the same
▓  15. This
▓  16. Let them run (unreleased)

Any feedback is welcome!

[odamite]

Hello!

I totally agree, the more opinions the better.
It's very hard to decide which music fits and which doesn't.

Totally true!

I don't think this will be so hard to implement using SDL_mixer.
This is how the music system should work:

* Some sort of .music file containing information about a single music file. (Author, license, start, loop-start, loop-end, volume)
* Fade the music in and out when changing/starting music.
* Show the track name+author when a new music piece is started.
* Music list files pointing to several .music files.
* Randomly select a track (but not picking the same one twice or too often)

I would love to help implementing this but I don't know if I have the needed skills

You shouldn't have said that, now they sound like old folk songs (especially the first one).

Sorry... I didn't realize this either before there was some tunes which I may have heard before. But most of them are unknown to me. Anyway I still love them

One thing I did notice when listening to those (and Tryad's ones) is that they are more songs than (game) background music.

Yeah, I noticed that too. It's hard to find CC/free music that is made especially for games. But from the album MCMic suggested the 5th song Nightpass (Calmer) could be used too. The whole album is composed for video games.

Anyway, I tried to determine to rate the tracks by if they fit the game or not.
If one is marked red it doesn't mean it's bad, just that I think it doesn't fit the game.
...

Awesome list I have to say. The two green ones from Tryad are great. I going to vote for them also. From Tradincelt it's really hard to choose the best songs. There're all so good... What would be the reasonable amount of songs? Something like 2-4?

[vaev]

Took me a while to notice the offer on my thread but I've replied to it now..seems you've talked about it here too. I'll quote my posting to my thread here too so the discussion doesn't get scattered:

"Hi, sorry I haven't checked the forums for a while since I already signed up for making music for Lips of Suna. I'll have a look at your project though, and see what I can do. Do you have a channel in IRC for the project I could join to discuss it?"

I'm not much of a forum user so please contact me in IRC, vaev@Freenode or IRCNet.

[Edward_Lii]

Hello vaev,

Took me a while to notice the offer on my thread but I've replied to it now..seems you've talked about it here too. I'll quote my posting to my thread here too so the discussion doesn't get scattered:

"Hi, sorry I haven't checked the forums for a while since I already signed up for making music for Lips of Suna. I'll have a look at your project though, and see what I can do. Do you have a channel in IRC for the project I could join to discuss it?"

I'm not much of a forum user so please contact me in IRC, vaev@Freenode or IRCNet.

I'm afraid we don't have an IRC channel, almost all our communication is done on this forum.
[Off-topic] Perhaps we should have an IRC channel?

Anyway, it would be great if you could make music for meandmyshadow.
Our plan slightly changed to using multiple music pieces instead of one, I think the most needed one is background music for the (main) menu.

If you've got any questions feel free to ask!

[vaev]

I'll try out what the game is like at the moment and try to feel it a bit, see what does it inspire and make some snippets/demos of what comes to my mind. I'll be in touch!

[Edward_Lii]

Hello vaev,

I'll try out what the game is like at the moment and try to feel it a bit, see what does it inspire and make some snippets/demos of what comes to my mind. I'll be in touch!

Thanks, I really appreciate your effort.

One question, under which license do you want to release your work?

[vaev]

In addition to my own ideas I'd also like you to describe, using examples and maybe stereotypes of what kind of feeling do you want the music to convey. Mystery? Challenge? Along those lines.

The licensing.. I usually release what I release into public domain more or less, but since this would be for a larger whole, I'll consider CC-BY-SA with a simple full name attribution to myself, if that doesn't conflict with your scheme.

[Edward_Lii]

Hello vaev,

In addition to my own ideas I'd also like you to describe, using examples and maybe stereotypes of what kind of feeling do you want the music to convey. Mystery? Challenge? Along those lines.

It's hard to describe but since it's a monochrome puzzle game I think it should first of all be calm.
We don't want to rush the players.

Not sure how to describe this, but the original background music we used consisted of separate tones.
I think that fits the game well (e.g. separate piano keys with a small interval), I'm not saying that it should only be separate but perhaps it could start with single tones and then flow into a more constant play.
Hopefully you can make sense out of this.

The licensing.. I usually release what I release into public domain more or less, but since this would be for a larger whole, I'll consider CC-BY-SA with a simple full name attribution to myself, if that doesn't conflict with your scheme.

CC-By-SA will fit in the game, I was just asking to make sure it will be compatible.

EDIT: Which version are you going to test, I think the latest svn will be better than 0.2 since it has a new menu style.
Perhaps music made for the old menu wouldn't fit the new one and vice versa?

[vaev]

Considering the theme of the shadow mirroring your actions, I'm going to thinkg about a soft mooded but mysterious instrumentation to a musical theme utilizing canon (form of music where a leader plays, and is then followed by others, cloning or variating on the leader's theme).

Not sure how to describe this, but the original background music we used consisted of separate tones.
I think that fits the game well (e.g. separate piano keys with a small interval), I'm not saying that it should only be separate but perhaps it could start with single tones and then flow into a more constant play.
Hopefully you can make sense out of this.

I think I get your general meaning. I'll consider simple elements interacting and adding to each others slowly building a bigger theme. Should work well with the canon approach.. this is actually getting quite interesting.

[vaev]

EDIT: Which version are you going to test, I think the latest svn will be better than 0.2 since it has a new menu style.
Perhaps music made for the old menu wouldn't fit the new one and vice versa?

Can you provide me a buildable package pulled from the SVN? I'm not really familiar in how to fetch it from there.

[Edward_Lii]

Hello vaev,

Can you provide me a buildable package pulled from the SVN? I'm not really familiar in how to fetch it from there.

I think so, do you use Linux or Windows? (And which distribution?)
32-bit or 64-bit?

[vaev]

64-bit gentoo linux, but also have a 64-bit xubuntu available.

[Edward_Lii]

Hello vaev,

64-bit gentoo linux, but also have a 64-bit xubuntu available.

I'll try to build a package for your 64-bit xubuntu.
This may take a while.

EDIT: You can see some screenshots in this thread:
http://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=2115&start=50#p25784

[vaev]

Don't stretch yourself too much with it. I am capable of figuring it out myself too but won't have time for it today. If it gives you too much trouble with dependencies or stuff, just leave it to be my headache..don't want to eat away your time

[odamite]

Hello all!

@vaev
It's great to see you're interested to contribute to this project. And thank you for that you're going to release the music under CC-BY-SA! I'm looking forward to hear your new music (or even pieces of it)

@Edward_Lii
I think we really should have an IRC-channel. There some of the conversation is be easier but I think that it shouldn't replace this forum. Maybe IRC is more for developers? Anyway our channel could be on Freenode #meandmyshadow or #MnMS.