Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby rogerdv » 05 Feb 2020, 01:29

$250k, to spend on improving the renderer and something else (sorry, Im a bit drunk right now). Quite good news for people who is using Godot right now like me.
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby farrer » 05 Feb 2020, 13:49

From Godot's website:

Godot applied for a $250k usd grant for the category of open source graphics software, (which does not have the necessary requirement to be related to Unreal Engine), and expressed the wish to use the grant to improve graphics rendering as well as our built-in- game development language, GDScript.
(...)
The grant was awarded at the beginning of this month and we are still discussing the next steps to follow.


Great news!
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby Lyberta » 05 Feb 2020, 20:36

So, when are they going to add chat censoring system that blocks words like "Xi" and "Winnie The Pooh"?
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby Evropi » 06 Feb 2020, 00:21

Lyberta {l Wrote}:So, when are they going to add chat censoring system that blocks words like "Xi" and "Winnie The Pooh"?

In all fairness that was Blizzard, and Epic, including their CEO in person, very publicly took a stance against Blizzard's actions towards Blitzchung.
You just wasted 3 seconds of your life reading this.
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby Lyberta » 06 Feb 2020, 03:55

Evropi {l Wrote}:In all fairness that was Blizzard, and Epic, including their CEO in person, very publicly took a stance against Blizzard's actions towards Blitzchung.


They've recently made a huge scandal by dropping support for Linux and MacOS from Rocket League. Both Activision Blizzard and Epic are Chinese.
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby rogerdv » 06 Feb 2020, 16:37

Lyberta {l Wrote}:So, when are they going to add chat censoring system that blocks words like "Xi" and "Winnie The Pooh"?


Probably at the same time as Blender (who got 1.2 million), Krita, and other open source software that got grants from Epic. Or you can ask them to return the grant and start donating you.
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby Lyberta » 07 Feb 2020, 00:15

EDIT: [I typed some nonsense here, removed]
Last edited by Lyberta on 08 Feb 2020, 13:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby freemedia2018 » 07 Feb 2020, 05:03

All these corporate bribes lately--

there was a time when I would share in the excitement about this-- without such a grant Blender would not be what it is today.

But these days I don't trust this sort of funding. Like Google and FSFE, or IBM and the FSF, or HP and anything at all, ever. I'm not an anti-capitalist yet. If I am socialist or even lean that way, it's the libertarian variety. But these grants and "donations" do increasingly (in general) seem like bribes to me. So I won't be celebrating. If you want me to be happy about things like this, show me more projects that don't start abusing users and freedom more once they get more money. Most projects change. Even the FSF has changed. Who is LESS likely to take a bribe than the FSF?

rogerdv {l Wrote}:Or you can ask them to return the grant and start donating you.


Once money matters more than freedom, people who care about freedom can't compete with these large corporations that exploit users. I'm not saying everything is free as in beer, I am saying that if we make it one-dollar, one vote-- corporations will outvote, and do! But there used to people who "had no price." They wouldn't take money when they knew strings were attached. It shouldn't be possible for for-profits to "buy" a non-profit. But it has happened.
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby rogerdv » 07 Feb 2020, 18:48

Development takes time and effor. Im a game developer myself and I want to be paid for it. Im a writer and I want people to buy my books. Sorry, it is how the economy works, even in a country like mine, where the government is supposed to cover all your needs (and ends up not vovering anything at all). If some day I can sell my games and books, definitely part of the profit will go to support the people who makes the tools I use: Godot, Blender, etc, because if you want that somebody works 100% on something, then he must have his/her needs covered.
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby freemedia2018 » 07 Feb 2020, 21:43

rogerdv {l Wrote}:Sorry, it is how the economy works


So what you're saying is, that you would accept money to write crappier books over time, just because you were paid to? You would go against your own principles as a writer just because there was money involved?

Because unless you're saying that, you did not get my point, and (more importantly) your situation is different than the one I'm talking about. It doesn't bother me that projects are getting money. It bothers me that more recently, money is actually compromising too many things. Writing books isn't a new thing-- I'm sure there are plenty of authors who have turned down bribes to write things they didn't believe, or didn't want to write. And that's also how the economy works. When it works properly.
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby Jastiv » 08 Feb 2020, 08:55

rogerdv {l Wrote}:Development takes time and effort. Im a game developer myself and I want to be paid for it..

Me too. Some days it seems a far stretch to get paid for writing free software games, but I feel like making proprietary games would kill the whole purpose behind making games in the first place. I mean, there are all lot of proprietary games, some that seem to be ok to play for a time, until you find either the developers ruin the game, or you just get tired of all the stuff you cannot change about it and the limitations of mod making.
freemedia2018 {l Wrote}:So what you're saying is, that you would accept money to write crappier books over time, just because you were paid to? You would go against your own principles as a writer just because there was money involved?

I know people want money and do all kinds of things for it, but I have to ask myself, is it really ethical to accept book royalties at all? The whole idea that the book has some kind of artistic integrity seems like bs to me. I do actually have a completed draft of a book I wrote, that I actually did release under by-SA. I doubt anyone here wants to read it. Its is rehashed ideas that are thousands of years old in a post modern setting. I personally think it is readable and enjoyed reading and writing it, but I haven't really worked on finding the right audience for it, nor do I care. Occasionally I read horror books, but mostly I don't. I do have a lot of books, I just buy them pre-owned, so they mostly old or like previous years best sellers. (so, the last time I bought a fiction book new, I think it was like before borders went out of business) There is a really great, really huge used bookstore in the next town, and in addition my town has yearly used book sales. I've also picked up used books for sale at tag sales, swaps and at the library.
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby farrer » 08 Feb 2020, 16:11

I don't understand the alarming tone. In the specific case of Godot (which is what this thread referred), how could a 250k support to improve its graphics rendering engine (probably towards vulkan, as announced some time ago) and its script language could compromise anything related to the libre status or availability of the engine on libre systems? Unless they change the route drastically to use non-libre libraries and langages (and clearly it isn't the case), there's no need for so negative views...
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby freemedia2018 » 08 Feb 2020, 17:10

farrer {l Wrote}:Unless they change the route drastically to use non-libre libraries and langages (and clearly it isn't the case), there's no need for so negative views...


A LOT of projects have suffered lately due to monetary influence. It's not the money that bothers me, it's the environment this is happening in.

I do want projects to be able to get donations. I've donated and raised donations for free software projects. But just as reform politicians swear (whether sincerely, or to pose as reformers) to only take money from individuals, not corporations due to the situation with lobbyists, the free software world is having similar problems. It's not the Godot donation that kicked off this concern. It isn't entirely hypothetical. Only the specific example is-- the trend is not good. Hence the concern, which if we are lucky, is misplaced. That doesn't mean there's no good reason for it.

Jastiv {l Wrote}:I do actually have a completed draft of a book I wrote, that I actually did release under by-SA. I doubt anyone here wants to read it. Its is rehashed ideas that are thousands of years old in a post modern setting.


I'd be interested, if you'll email it to me or send a link (if possible) here or in pm. I was interested in helping a new generation learn about the (two-decade old) Halloween documents, and wrote a book under a free license that retold the story as a modern howto. Since then, I've watched companies use the exact tactics that are in the book. I doubt it's because of the book though-- it's because Microsoft never stopped using those tricks, and they learned them from IBM. (I predicted the Red Hat purchase as well as the current FSF crisis.) But I wanted people interested in free software to know the tricks so they can more easily find and counter them. I also wanted people to be more familiar with the original Halloween documents, which it quotes after each chapter.
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby Jastiv » 08 Feb 2020, 19:58

Here is the link. It is basically a fictional (fortunate so far) horror novel/thriller. It is a complete draft. It probably needs revisions as I couldn't really get any readers for it since I never worked at that.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l9ij5792zlbdr ... 0.pdf?dl=0

I would be interested in your Halloween documents book. I am somewhat familiar with that, I remember it was around 2000ish or so. I think at the time I actually thought the free software movement would be so much further a long than it is now (but at the time I just thought about "open source") and I didn't really see the whole implications of it or why things were still moving so slowly.
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby rogerdv » 08 Feb 2020, 20:44

freemedia2018 {l Wrote}:
rogerdv {l Wrote}:Sorry, it is how the economy works


So what you're saying is, that you would accept money to write crappier books over time, just because you were paid to? You would go against your own principles as a writer just because there was money involved?


Lets see, there are two kind of writers: the ones that can write anything they want and can take orders, and the ones like me who can only work on their own ideas. It doesnt mean that the first ones are bad writers, simply they can take an idea a produce a book from it. RA Salvatore is a great writer and has been comissioned with some Star Wars books (good books, I think).
What I exactly mean is that some work requires payment, due to complexity. I can give short stories for free, I even gave my first novel for free under CC, but a novel is something that takes a year to complete, takes nights of work, and if you consider it a good work and want to get more novels from mine (or from any author), then you have to pay to support that author. It is the same with a task as complex as creating a game engine. I guess it is the same reason why there is not a dozen of good quality, animated, 3d models in OpenGAmeArt, simply the people capable of making them think that it is too much work to do it for free.
I think Juan, and maybe some other contributors, the more the better, deserve to be paid so they can work 100% on Godot. Thus we can have a better engine, and developers like me, subject to USA restrictions, can have a good alternative to Unreal and Unity.
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby Danimal » 09 Feb 2020, 13:31

I guess it is the same reason why there is not a dozen of good quality, animated, 3d models in OpenGAmeArt, simply the people capable of making them think that it is too much work to do it for free.

As a somewhat decent 3D artist i totally agree on that, sketching, modelling and texturing is fun (for myself), but animating is cumbersome and boring, so much that lately im not animating at all. Specially when you have not a hint of gratitude or feedback from the community you are giving some 10 or more solids hours of work. And inevitably, you "grow out " of it, start looking for more profitable ways to spend your time, which is logical, since we need money for housing, food, and living in real life...

Im very happy that Godot got that donation which will allow some dedicated coders and much need internet publicity, things that would not happen otherwise.
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby Wuzzy » 14 Feb 2020, 14:17

Source, apparently:
https://godotengine.org/article/godot-e ... -megagrant

This is weird. So apparently an “Epic MegaGrant” is given out by the people behind Unreal Engine.

Why would they donate to Godot, a direct competitor of them? This smells fishy. It is hard not to think of conspiracy hypothesis right now … :D

Also:
We want to personally thank Tim Sweeney for the encouragement and support, and for sharing the belief that open source software makes the world a better place.

Tim Sweeney is the CEO of Epic Games and creator of Unreal Engine. It's ironic that he apparently said those things. If open source is so great, why isn't he doing open source himself? :D

Anyway, enough with conspiracy thinking, now for the facts. The fact is that I don't know any details of the grant, the post doesn't have many useful. :(

Does anyone of you know more details? Like, can they use the money freely or are there conditions? Has Epic Games or Tim Sweeney or anyone the (legal) power to dictate what the Godot will do?

What I would also like to know is: Who will actually get the money in the end? There are lots of Godot developers, so how will they decide how the money is distributed? I also don't know what exactly they are planning to do with all the money. From the link above, the reader is left in the dark.
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby anon666 » 14 Feb 2020, 17:37

when government (or any big corp) want to help you, you have a problem (tm)

corps will likely use the money the same way they gave for cheap (or virtually free) opium to chinese elites
i myself not a big fan of godot tho
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby Technopeasant » 15 Feb 2020, 18:54

Wuzzy {l Wrote}:Tim Sweeney is the CEO of Epic Games and creator of Unreal Engine. It's ironic that he apparently said those things. If open source is so great, why isn't he doing open source himself? :D


Yes, especially since allowing source ports for the original Unreal Engine versions would avoid this problem my brother just wrote about.

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/ ... 2020.15915

I mean, Unreal Engine 4 is "shared source" I guess, but that just muddies the waters.

Of course, this is rather like that... ahem... oddly included quote from Gabe Newell on GOG's FCK DRM website.

https://fckdrm.com/
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby rogerdv » 15 Feb 2020, 19:48

Wuzzy {l Wrote}:Source, apparently:
https://godotengine.org/article/godot-e ... -megagrant

This is weird. So apparently an “Epic MegaGrant” is given out by the people behind Unreal Engine.

Why would they donate to Godot, a direct competitor of them? This smells fishy. It is hard not to think of conspiracy hypothesis right now … :D

Also:
We want to personally thank Tim Sweeney for the encouragement and support, and for sharing the belief that open source software makes the world a better place.

Tim Sweeney is the CEO of Epic Games and creator of Unreal Engine. It's ironic that he apparently said those things. If open source is so great, why isn't he doing open source himself? :D

Anyway, enough with conspiracy thinking, now for the facts. The fact is that I don't know any details of the grant, the post doesn't have many useful. :(

Does anyone of you know more details? Like, can they use the money freely or are there conditions? Has Epic Games or Tim Sweeney or anyone the (legal) power to dictate what the Godot will do?

What I would also like to know is: Who will actually get the money in the end? There are lots of Godot developers, so how will they decide how the money is distributed? I also don't know what exactly they are planning to do with all the money. From the link above, the reader is left in the dark.


TEchnically, Godot is far from being a comptetitor to Unreal. Or Unity, anyway. Yes, lateyl it has been grwoing in use and Unity seems to be affected by that growing, but nothing significant. There is no conditions in the use of the money or nono has been revelaed. It will be used for the renderer and GDScript, because they requested it specifically for that. The main developers are still deciding how to use it, but surely will fund Juan' s work and maybe some other extra contributor will be hired full time, or at least thats what I would do. Please, underestand that there are Contribuors and constributors. The first ones are doing the heavy work on the engine core, the others commit a thing or two, fix some bug, etc. Me, personally, would like to have more of the first ones working full time.
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby freemedia2018 » 16 Feb 2020, 02:56

Wuzzy {l Wrote}:Why would they donate to Godot, a direct competitor of them? This smells fishy. It is hard not to think of conspiracy hypothesis right now …


Without accepting the idea of Godot as a direct competitor, the cookie-cutter "conspiracy" (standard business practice) is this:

1. Give them funds they dont know how to spend-- (curl just got this as well. yes, the little command line wget-like utility. Not that curl doesn't have some features that wget doesn't.)

2. Help them spend the money hiring new people.

3. Send people to take the project in the desired direction.

Never happened at Nokia or Mozilla or Google or Novell or the Linux Foundation.

It's just the stuff of fantasy.

Of course I hope that isn't what a proprietary software company has in store for Godot. But if it is, it would certainly be the first time, ever.
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Re: Godot got an Epic Mega Grant!

Postby anon666 » 16 Feb 2020, 14:01

remember that Buran (a competitor of Space Shuttle) had IBM minicomputers inside of it (system/360 iirc)

its closer than you think :)
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