(Little rant: ) Everything is a roguelike

(Little rant: ) Everything is a roguelike

Postby PeterX » 02 Jun 2021, 17:05

Man, this sucks! Nowadays they call every game they can catch "roguelike" or "roguelite"! Even a deckbuilding game and a 3D RPG.

For me roguelike means: Angband, Moria, (Net)Hack, ADOM.

Is it nostalgia which lets people call them "roguelike"? Retro is a big trend in gaming (and a bit in other areas).

And what is "roguelite" really? Does it actually mean "It's not even close to roguelike but we insist on naming it somwhat roguelike"?

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Re: (Little rant: ) Everything is a roguelike

Postby Julius » 02 Jun 2021, 18:59

Most people first heard of rogue-like probably when FTL became a hit. Modern use of the term has very little to do with those games you mentioned. But that's life, the meaning of words change over time.
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Re: (Little rant: ) Everything is a roguelike

Postby PeterX » 02 Jun 2021, 19:12

Julius {l Wrote}:But that's life, the meaning of words change over time.

Yeah, I guess that's the case here. But for me it feels like redefining some precise and historical term like "interactive fiction" or "Pacman". Maybe that will happen some time, too.

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Re: (Little rant: ) Everything is a roguelike

Postby Magellan » 02 Jun 2021, 21:43

I gripe about this too. I think it makes people think I'm like a crotchety old man though :D

To me, it seems like a lot of times the term 'roguelike' means that randomness and/or permadeath are core elements of the game. Most any kind of game can find some way to incorporate stuff like that, if the dev tries. It kinda sucks though, since some of my favorite games are roguelikes in the traditional sense, and it certainly makes it tougher to find new games like that (or that are really trying to put a new spin on real roguelike gameplay mechanics) when anything from a tower-defense game to a multiplayer FPS can find some way to justify calling itself a 'roguelike'. You see it all the time in game descriptions or taglists on online marketplaces. But what can ya do...

Maybe we need another term for those old kind of games, to make it clearer. Or maybe such a term already exists that I'm unaware of.
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Re: (Little rant: ) Everything is a roguelike

Postby drummyfish » 03 Jun 2021, 11:22

I've noticed it too but from a different perspective. I dislike roguelikes and every time I'm looking for a libre RPG, I am only finding tons of roguelikes and I'm like why the heck can't someone make a non-roguelike RPG? I want a fkn RPG without permadeath, without random dungeons and shit, more like Pokémon or TES. Yes I know these exist (Flare, Dink Smallwood, ...) and that they are difficult to make, but I would take any simple RPG that works on the principles of classical RPGs, focused on long-term character building and hand crafted storyline, it could even be text-only. I wouldn't mind ASCII interface, I just dislike the roguelike mechanics. Stop making so many roguelikes basically.
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Re: (Little rant: ) Everything is a roguelike

Postby PeterX » 03 Jun 2021, 12:11

I don't know any Pokemon RPG. (I only know the TV series and the trading card game.)

A libre game similar to The Elder Scrolls would be cool. With lots of quests and 3D.

There are many action RPGs out there, I think even many libre ones. But I don't like action RPGs.

I don't know if some of the games made with RPGmaker are libre.

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Re: (Little rant: ) Everything is a roguelike

Postby Unnamed » 05 Jun 2021, 12:35

I like both, RPGs and roguelikes. But they play completely different and don't mix well.
RPGs put emphasis on character building while the point of roguelikes is to figure out how to survive the next level. Characteristics like permadeath are actually a consequence of it (to prevent save scumming). And randomness and procedural generation forces the player to find optimal strategies instead of chains of actions that will work out over different plays.
So I think the problem is that people didn't understood what roguelikes are actually about.
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Re: (Little rant: ) Everything is a roguelike

Postby Technopeasant » 06 Jun 2021, 22:31

drummyfish {l Wrote}:I want a fkn RPG without permadeath, without random dungeons and shit, more like Pokémon or TES.


https://tuxemon.org/
https://opmon-game.ga/
https://tangomon-game.github.io/

Can not help you for Elder-likes sadly.
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